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 Post subject: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:04 pm 
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http://gawker.com/5748514/study-finds-a ... childbirth

I assume as a result of this study, states will start requiring you to read some related literature encouraging abortion before you decide to go through with childbirth.

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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:07 pm 
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Bahahaha!

Or make all women have C-sections. Our local hospitals have c-section rates near 50%.

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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:20 pm 
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childbirth triggered some horrible stuff for me, but either way it's probably pretty damn traumatizing.


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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:18 am 
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I don't usually read the comments, but this person actually sums up how I feel about it pretty nicely:

Quote:
The word "traumatizing" is totally out of place here. The study was about frequency with which women sought mental health services.

Seeking mental health services =/= being traumatized.

That’s why so many commenters are all, "duh." Everyone knows being a new mom is hard and you might need more support than you get in your native environment, so it follows you would seek services. That doesn't mean you're traumatized!

As far as actually being literally traumatizing, a scary birth experience or an emotionally conflicted or medically complicated abortion could be. Or if you have a prior trauma history you might have a harder time negotiating the normal ups-and-downs of being post-partum or post-abortion and experience them as inordinately triggering.

But either way there’s a specific set of conditions under which something is defined as a trauma and I don't think there's anything inherent in either situation that renders it more likely to be experienced as such.

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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:24 am 
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I think this is possible but I also think it depends on a hell of a lot of factors.

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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:43 am 
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coldandsleepy wrote:
"As far as actually being literally traumatizing, a scary birth experience or an emotionally conflicted or medically complicated abortion could be. Or if you have a prior trauma history you might have a harder time negotiating the normal ups-and-downs of being post-partum or post-abortion and experience them as inordinately triggering."


but abortion is statistically much safer than birth (in the U.S.), so it makes sense birth is more often traumatic.


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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:00 am 
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mooo wrote:
coldandsleepy wrote:
"As far as actually being literally traumatizing, a scary birth experience or an emotionally conflicted or medically complicated abortion could be. Or if you have a prior trauma history you might have a harder time negotiating the normal ups-and-downs of being post-partum or post-abortion and experience them as inordinately triggering."


but abortion is statistically much safer than birth (in the U.S.), so it makes sense birth is more often traumatic.


It seems to me like the word "traumatic" was used deliberately to mean the same thing that anti-choicers use it to mean when they talk about abortion. That is, it was used so as to put this study on the scale that anti-choice groups use when they try to scare women by saying that abortion is traumatic.

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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:30 am 
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I'm staunchly pro-choice, but I think it might be more accurate to say that childbirth following an unplanned pregnancy where the mother feels that she "has" to have the child is more traumatic than abortion. Or what coldandsleepy quoted, at least from the emotional aspect.

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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:50 am 
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jordanpattern wrote:
mooo wrote:
coldandsleepy wrote:
"As far as actually being literally traumatizing, a scary birth experience or an emotionally conflicted or medically complicated abortion could be. Or if you have a prior trauma history you might have a harder time negotiating the normal ups-and-downs of being post-partum or post-abortion and experience them as inordinately triggering."


but abortion is statistically much safer than birth (in the U.S.), so it makes sense birth is more often traumatic.


It seems to me like the word "traumatic" was used deliberately to mean the same thing that anti-choicers use it to mean when they talk about abortion. That is, it was used so as to put this study on the scale that anti-choice groups use when they try to scare women by saying that abortion is traumatic.


do you mean the use of the word "traumatic" in the gawker headline? psychological trauma is an objective medical term, not necessarily a loaded one. the actual study seems to me to provide a pretty good measure of whether women experienced trauma and therefore sought mental health care after either abortion or childbirth.


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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:46 am 
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designedtobekind wrote:
I'm staunchly pro-choice, but I think it might be more accurate to say that childbirth following an unplanned pregnancy where the mother feels that she "has" to have the child is more traumatic than abortion. Or what coldandsleepy quoted, at least from the emotional aspect.


I don't think those are the only traumatic types of births. The medical climate that's been created around obstetrics can sometimes compel women to make choices because of some legal state interest in the fetus. Some of the recent forced c-section cases are really sad...and there are also every day cases where pregnant women are just plain railroaded by a system that doesn't bother with obtaining informed consent. When I initially got OB care from a hospital (and I'm only in the 2nd trimester) I felt like I was being very much pushed into what they had decided was best for everyone; I can easily envision a traumatic birth coming out of that. I'm so happy to have switched providers, but I think a lot of women are intimidated to seek care elsewhere and it's so easy to feel powerless when faced with medical staff insisting that either you consent to X or you don't love your child. "Pushed" isn't very unbiased, but it's a good book on the subject that highlights some of the more traumatic aspects of even wanted, healthy pregnancies that result in healthy babies.

It's something that I feel should be more on the pro-choice radar, because maternity rights and abortion rights are flip sides of the same coin: it's about who gets to control women's bodies and whether the fetus has more rights than the woman carrying it, and also who gets to decide what's best for that fetus and how.


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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:37 pm 
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annak wrote:
designedtobekind wrote:
I'm staunchly pro-choice, but I think it might be more accurate to say that childbirth following an unplanned pregnancy where the mother feels that she "has" to have the child is more traumatic than abortion. Or what coldandsleepy quoted, at least from the emotional aspect.


I don't think those are the only traumatic types of births. The medical climate that's been created around obstetrics can sometimes compel women to make choices because of some legal state interest in the fetus. Some of the recent forced c-section cases are really sad...and there are also every day cases where pregnant women are just plain railroaded by a system that doesn't bother with obtaining informed consent. When I initially got OB care from a hospital (and I'm only in the 2nd trimester) I felt like I was being very much pushed into what they had decided was best for everyone; I can easily envision a traumatic birth coming out of that. I'm so happy to have switched providers, but I think a lot of women are intimidated to seek care elsewhere and it's so easy to feel powerless when faced with medical staff insisting that either you consent to X or you don't love your child. "Pushed" isn't very unbiased, but it's a good book on the subject that highlights some of the more traumatic aspects of even wanted, healthy pregnancies that result in healthy babies.

It's something that I feel should be more on the pro-choice radar, because maternity rights and abortion rights are flip sides of the same coin: it's about who gets to control women's bodies and whether the fetus has more rights than the woman carrying it, and also who gets to decide what's best for that fetus and how.

Of course there's more than one time of trauma a person can go through during the whole birth experience. It's more complicated than X is more traumatic than Y, Also, we should be looking at women's issues as a whole. My point was just that both of these can be traumatic, for one reason or another. It's hard define one as definitely more psychologically traumatic than the other without looking at a variety of factors.

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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:15 pm 
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I just want to point out that this title was selected by Gawker/Politics Daily. The original study title, background, and conclusion don't mention trauma, just mental disorder, and it wasn't set up to prove that giving birth is traumatic, just that abortion isn't as traumatic as its made out to be.

I think it's pretty interesting that women seek more psychiatric help after birth than they do after abortion. Sure, it should be studied further, but this is what initial studies do - just look at a few factors.

And the being prone to trauma thing is kind of addressed by the fact that they selected women with no prior mental health problems.

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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:43 pm 
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Thanks for posting this article, I seem to get involved in a lot of discussions with people who insist that everyone should just carry to term and put babies up for adoption like it is a simple choice.

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 Post subject: Re: study: childbirth more traumatic than abortion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:19 pm 
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