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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:19 am 
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Wow, it just never occurred to me that girl crush has homophobic undertones. It actually really bothers me that I never thought about if the term was problematic. I only thought maybe the term sounded silly and trivialized relationships between and among women (girl =childish/not serious).

I think I'll still use crush, just not with any descriptors (except maybe friend). I think cherish or revere might be too intense for me ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:46 am 
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"girl crush" was always weird to me. I'm bisexual and if I got a crush on someone, I just got a crush. Though to me having a crush =/= sexual interest

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:13 am 
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I never thought of girl crush as having homophobic undertones either, or really the dumbing down ones. But I have only ever heard/used the term among a group of women. No skin off my nose to not use it though, so I'll just find something else.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:12 pm 
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Roseanne Barr says its okay to make rape jokes: http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/artic ... jokes.html

And criticizes Lindy West for her privilege.

Quote:
The troublesome part of Lindy’s “argument” with her white male comic cohorts is that it’s taking place at a time when people are being arrested off America’s streets for little more than being part of a particular ethnic or racial group. Anyone who targets any group or type of artist for being “too offensive” is helping to move public opinion away from freedom and toward the tyranny of surveillance.

Please know that when you address yourself to “white male comics,” lots of us out here are a little bit disturbed at this distinction. It’s privileged thinking to be unaware of the plight of working-class boys and young men in America, those who are being locked up for pot so that they can, at the height of their physical strength, work in privatized prisons for corporations that pay them less than 20 cents per hour. Most of the house paint sold in America is now made by prison labor, in what would be called a Labor Camp, back in the days of the German “Homeland.”


Bam! Reductio ad Hitlerum. Roseanne Barr is the new Whoopi Goldberg.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:19 pm 
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I think "girl crush" is super offensive and heterosexist so I'm glad to see it being talked about.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Roseanne Barr says its okay to make rape jokes: http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/artic ... jokes.html

And criticizes Lindy West for her privilege.

Quote:
The troublesome part of Lindy’s “argument” with her white male comic cohorts is that it’s taking place at a time when people are being arrested off America’s streets for little more than being part of a particular ethnic or racial group. Anyone who targets any group or type of artist for being “too offensive” is helping to move public opinion away from freedom and toward the tyranny of surveillance.

Please know that when you address yourself to “white male comics,” lots of us out here are a little bit disturbed at this distinction. It’s privileged thinking to be unaware of the plight of working-class boys and young men in America, those who are being locked up for pot so that they can, at the height of their physical strength, work in privatized prisons for corporations that pay them less than 20 cents per hour. Most of the house paint sold in America is now made by prison labor, in what would be called a Labor Camp, back in the days of the German “Homeland.”


Bam! Reductio ad Hitlerum. Roseanne Barr is the new Whoopi Goldberg.


Ugh. Roseanne! She's also a transmisogynist. (She tweeted a few times about how she doesn't consider trans women to really be women).
It's always so disappointing when stuff like this happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:31 pm 
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I like how she also conveniently leaves out that white men receive lighter sentences and black people are far more likely to be incarcerated and exploited in the prison system.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:04 pm 
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strawberryrock wrote:
I think "girl crush" is super offensive and heterosexist so I'm glad to see it being talked about.


I totally agree, and just upthread I said I have used the term. I just never thought about it before someone mentioned it here. It's a good reminder that we're all a work in progress and even someone who considers them to be a lgbtq ally can use terms that are offensive, unknowingly/ignorantly, without meaning harm. And it's good to learn, and discussions like this are important.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:57 pm 
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I am so disheartened to learn of Roseanne's opinions. As a working class woman who has been raped, I find her comments offensive and disgusting on so many levels.

And her opinion on trans women -fuck! Way to betray the sisterhood that supported you Roseanne! Didn't she get a lot of support in her early days from lgtbq clubs?

Sorry if that sounded harsh, I'm just very upset by this. And offended on behalf of all women.

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Last edited by jean on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:05 pm 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
I think "girl crush" is super offensive and heterosexist so I'm glad to see it being talked about.


I totally agree, and just upthread I said I have used the term. I just never thought about it before someone mentioned it here. It's a good reminder that we're all a work in progress and even someone who considers them to be a lgbtq ally can use terms that are offensive, unknowingly/ignorantly, without meaning harm. And it's good to learn, and discussions like this are important.

Yup. Every single last one of us needs a reminder to step outside of our own perspective once in awhile.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:17 pm 
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I'm not even sure if Roseanne's point is just going over my head or if it's as foolish as it sounds. Is she saying that it's not okay to criticize white men because some of them are working-class men who are forced to do prison labor? 'Cause I'm pretty sure it's mostly men of color who are targeted for this shiitake, so what she's saying is fairly useless.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:57 am 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
I think "girl crush" is super offensive and heterosexist so I'm glad to see it being talked about.


I totally agree, and just upthread I said I have used the term. I just never thought about it before someone mentioned it here. It's a good reminder that we're all a work in progress and even someone who considers them to be a lgbtq ally can use terms that are offensive, unknowingly/ignorantly, without meaning harm. And it's good to learn, and discussions like this are important.

Yes, I had used the term and never really thought about it. I have learnt a great deal from this discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:00 am 
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Interesting Ted talk about rape. (If you've seen it, what do you think of it?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJxUVJ8blw

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:07 am 
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jogirl wrote:
paprikapapaya wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
I think "girl crush" is super offensive and heterosexist so I'm glad to see it being talked about.


I totally agree, and just upthread I said I have used the term. I just never thought about it before someone mentioned it here. It's a good reminder that we're all a work in progress and even someone who considers them to be a lgbtq ally can use terms that are offensive, unknowingly/ignorantly, without meaning harm. And it's good to learn, and discussions like this are important.

Yes, I had used the term and never really thought about it. I have learnt a great deal from this discussion.


Same.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:59 am 
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jogirl wrote:
paprikapapaya wrote:
strawberryrock wrote:
I think "girl crush" is super offensive and heterosexist so I'm glad to see it being talked about.


I totally agree, and just upthread I said I have used the term. I just never thought about it before someone mentioned it here. It's a good reminder that we're all a work in progress and even someone who considers them to be a lgbtq ally can use terms that are offensive, unknowingly/ignorantly, without meaning harm. And it's good to learn, and discussions like this are important.

Yes, I had used the term and never really thought about it. I have learnt a great deal from this discussion.

+ 1 yummy

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:43 pm 
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lutin wrote:
Interesting Ted talk about rape. (If you've seen it, what do you think of it?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJxUVJ8blw


I really liked this. It was linked to on the Sociological Images blog, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Roseanne Barr says its okay to make rape jokes: http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/artic ... jokes.html

And criticizes Lindy West for her privilege.

Quote:
The troublesome part of Lindy’s “argument” with her white male comic cohorts is that it’s taking place at a time when people are being arrested off America’s streets for little more than being part of a particular ethnic or racial group. Anyone who targets any group or type of artist for being “too offensive” is helping to move public opinion away from freedom and toward the tyranny of surveillance.

Please know that when you address yourself to “white male comics,” lots of us out here are a little bit disturbed at this distinction. It’s privileged thinking to be unaware of the plight of working-class boys and young men in America, those who are being locked up for pot so that they can, at the height of their physical strength, work in privatized prisons for corporations that pay them less than 20 cents per hour. Most of the house paint sold in America is now made by prison labor, in what would be called a Labor Camp, back in the days of the German “Homeland.”


Bam! Reductio ad Hitlerum. Roseanne Barr is the new Whoopi Goldberg.


I don't even understand this. Is her argument that any critique of someone else's speech is an assault on free speech in general? And that an assault on free speech is a vote in favor of government surveillance? I'm not sure what other argument she's trying to make.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Ugh, c'mon Roseanne! Seriously?

I think this is a good time to remember that women who stand on a platform and are supported to the top (she didn't get where she is on her own) can turn around and stab those same people in the back once they've firmly planted their feet at the top. It's really depressing to see it happen and I hope it reminds people to never forget where you came from and to support those who are still struggling. The fight isn't for you alone, it's for all of us.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:25 pm 
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I thought this was a really interesting article!

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/06/when-wo ... et-it.html

This part especially:
Quote:
Think about it: Women want sex, and in particular, they want sex with people who really want them. But socially, many straight men still find it a turnoff when women are sexual aggressors. Which means that, for women, aggressively pursuing the thing they want actually leads to them not getting it... The thing women are told they can access any time is, maddeningly, often just out of reach.


This definitely echoes my experience of online dating last year when I was a single lady! Guys were often put off, even slightly, by me being the aggressor or instigator and asking them out.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:13 am 
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I only recognized one line from this whole thing because I don't listen to Taylor Swift but that one line was hilarious. https://twitter.com/feministtswift

Quote:
We are never ever ever / going to dictate how you present your gender

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:43 pm 
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I encountered a man at a bus stop who inspected my appearance, asked me personal questions and touched my face. I caught myself thinking that maybe it was because he was elderly and maybe it was because it was his culture, but fork that - it's not my culture! My body isn't public property! I walked away very quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:00 pm 
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This is an awful case: teacher fired because her abusive ex-husband was threatening her and showed up at her school.

On the one hand, this woman took steps to protect herself and notified her school of the restraining orders and threats. She did everything right and has been punished for being a victim.

http://news.msn.com/us/teacher-fired-be ... -husband-1

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:48 pm 
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I am tired of people referring to "slut shaming." That word is a forking slur! Stop using it! If someone uses a woman's gender and sexuality to degrade her, they are being misogynistic. End of story, no trendy terms necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:07 am 
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Too late to edit, but I want to clarify that my post wasn't aimed at anyone here.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:24 am 
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Jigglypuff wrote:
I am tired of people referring to "slut shaming." That word is a forking slur! Stop using it! If someone uses a woman's gender and sexuality to degrade her, they are being misogynistic. End of story, no trendy terms necessary.
I agree. Hate speech is hate speech, and I don't think "reclaiming" language that has been specifically devised and deployed to shame, denigrate, and hurt people is a particularly worthwhile endeavor, even if it were realistically possible (which I doubt). In fact, keeping these words around in a desperate attempt to massage them into meaning something that everyone knows they do not (and the more hateful they are, the more this is the case) inadvertently reifies their original meaning by the act of bringing attention to them. There are an enormous number of words in our language; we can easily afford to dispense with some of the ugliest and most hurtful ones.

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