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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:01 pm 
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couroupita wrote:
...this just reminded me of some annoying stuff from last weekend when my friend came to visit. She's pregnant with a girl and was relating these "funny" anecdotes about her husband. Some of the most upsetting to me:
-her husband has planted a rosebush under their future daughter's window to "keep out the boys"
-he had suggested that they take the door off her bedroom from the get-go so she is never used to having one or any privacy
-he will only consider private school for his precious snowflake because she couldn't possibly handle the toughs in public school!!!
-the mom, my friend, likes to tell him what parts of the baby are developing each month and he got legit mad at her when she told him she now has her clitoris
-he's a gun collector and has already said he's going to scare off the boys by threatening to shoot them. My own father pulled that crepe and it pissed me off to no end.

Hilarious stories, right?

I already feel sorry for this kid. I want to give dudebro a little lesson in feminism but I don't want to make waves. It feels like butting in where I'm not welcome, parenting-wise. Plus we already have had conflicts when he has objectified women in the past or made sexist remarks. Blech.
UGH. This is exactly the kind of stuff I was talking about upthread. This guy's child isn't even finished being a fetus yet and he's already mapping his moronic, sexist, heteronormative crepe on to it. Poor little mite; I feel sorry for her and for her mother.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:06 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
my husband had come over to apologize for my behavior, which is certainly not the case.

Woah. That's unbelievable. I thought maybe you'd had only one interaction with these people, but obviously not! Definitely don't engage with them anymore!! I don't have helpful suggestions, just hugs and sympathy.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:16 pm 
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The more I think about it, "Have your husband talk to us" is really just an insult and akin to "Fork Off."

The patriarchy can be so invalidating sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:49 pm 
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I'd just hire someone anonymously to steal their grill then.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Accidentally set your sprinkler too close to the fence and have it spray over on them....? I mean, you're just trying to counteract the smoke. It's not your fault if they get rained on! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
The patriarchy can be so invalidating sometimes.


Yup. That's what I hate the most about comments like "I want to talk to the man," or even street harassment. It just makes me feel totally worthless.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:39 pm 
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And then people say sexism isn't even an issue any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Tofulish wrote:
The patriarchy can be so invalidating sometimes.


Yup. That's what I hate the most about comments like "I want to talk to the man," or even street harassment. It just makes me feel totally worthless.
I actually have kind of a funny story about this. Shortly after my ex and I got married, we lived in an apartment in an older three-family house. It had an old-fashioned pantry with a deep sink (great for stacking dishes until you have no choice but to wash them). ANYWAY, one day this sink started leaking, and after messing around with it, it became apparent that a piece that wrapped around the outside needed to be replaced. Now, I know nothing about plumbing supplies, but figured my descriptive powers would do the trick.

So I rang up the local hardware store and described what was happening, what the pipe looked like, the approximate age of the sink, etc. The guy on the other end of the phone sounded a little exasperated, and asked me exactly where it was leaking.

Me: "Right at the bottom part of the gooseneck thing."
Guy: "Honey, can you put your husband on the phone?"

Now I'm fuming that this dude A. called me "honey," B. assumes I even have a husband, and C. imagines that husband will have any better information to offer than I did. So I stomp into the other room and hand the phone to my ex, who takes it, basically reiterates everything I had already said, and answers what I assume was the same question with "Well, you know that gooseneck thing? Right at the bottom of that." *SNORT*

And then I called a plumber!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:43 pm 
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I get that a lot from repairpeople/craftsmen/handymen/Home Depot employees! It's so infuriating, especially since I'm the handy one in our relationship and if we're both present I'm usually the one doing the talking and providing all the details, but if my husband is around they'll always talk to him first, or respond to him when I've just asked a question. Or if he's not home they'll make a bunch of references to my husband and how "the boss" will be so interested in all these details when he gets home. Dude, my husband gives no forks what valve you replaced in the washer, I'm the one who deals with it, and I make pretty much all purchasing decisions in this house and I will totally not hire you again if you don't stop belittling me.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Tofulish, I went off on the cable guy with this issue in a way I'm not proud of...he wouldn't make eye contact with me and kept saying, "your husband told me...," (Lies, my husband never said anything he was saying) and with babynut strapped on my chest I told him that I was a decision maker in my household and that I don't need permission from my husband! With language and tone i didn't want babynut exposed to unfortunately. It was so infuriating! It's rare that I get that angry, but man the fact that he assumed i needed to ask my husband if xyz was okay really pissed me off.

Anytime people refuse to talk to me because I'm a woman puts me in a hostile mood.

Good luck dealing with those crassholes.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:08 pm 
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Fee wrote:
I've been trying to have standards but it's hard - no one really researches all the lyrics of every song before they buy an album, do they?

I don't research everything but I don't listen to anything that refers to women as bisques or hos. And you can't be perfect but I try really hard to not give my money to sexist shitbags. If that shiitake gets reversed and women used such godawful language in lyrics they'd get slammed for man-hating from the mostly male music critics out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:18 am 
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Not sure if this challenged my feminism or just pissed me the hell off. I was waiting for a bench press at the gym, and this kid took off most of the plates but left the 45 lbs on the bar. But he grabbed his stuff like he was leaving, so I asked if he was done, and he completely ignored me. He was wearing headphones, so I was like, oh, maybe he didn't hear me. Followed him to the water fountain and asked again and he kind of chuckled and told me he was done. Then he chuckled again and asked if I wanted help taking the weights off the bar. I may not be able to bench what was loaded, but I can handle a 45 lb. plate first of all. Second of all, gym etiquette, he should have re-racked them anyway. Then he asked if I wanted help adding some weight. I mean, he could have been trying to be nice, but he came off as a a real dick.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:55 am 
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pandacookie wrote:
Fee wrote:
I've been trying to have standards but it's hard - no one really researches all the lyrics of every song before they buy an album, do they?

I don't research everything but I don't listen to anything that refers to women as bisques or hos. And you can't be perfect but I try really hard to not give my money to sexist shitbags. If that shiitake gets reversed and women used such godawful language in lyrics they'd get slammed for man-hating from the mostly male music critics out there.


I agree but the problem is that it's not apparent when you start listening to a song or songs that an artist does that. I know the huge stereotype that all of a particular type of music is that way, but most of my favorite songs aren't about women at all. Or they'll write something about women and it's not problematic. And then you'll be knee deep in an album and hear one line that's hugely offensive that really shows how some part of them feels.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:13 am 
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ndpittman wrote:
Not sure if this challenged my feminism or just pissed me the hell off. I was waiting for a bench press at the gym, and this kid took off most of the plates but left the 45 lbs on the bar. But he grabbed his stuff like he was leaving, so I asked if he was done, and he completely ignored me. He was wearing headphones, so I was like, oh, maybe he didn't hear me. Followed him to the water fountain and asked again and he kind of chuckled and told me he was done. Then he chuckled again and asked if I wanted help taking the weights off the bar. I may not be able to bench what was loaded, but I can handle a 45 lb. plate first of all. Second of all, gym etiquette, he should have re-racked them anyway. Then he asked if I wanted help adding some weight. I mean, he could have been trying to be nice, but he came off as a a real dick.



There was a while in college where I actually made an effort to go to the gym and lift weights every couple days. I mostly stuck with the machines, not free weights, but after a few months I was decently strong, so it was always funny when there would be guys waiting in line behind me and then they would look at whatever I was lifting and then double or triple it, then try to lift it unsuccessfully and then have to dial that back to below what I had been lifting originally. Always made me smile a little bit on the inside. Not because I was competitive about it at all, but their confidence that obviously they'd be able to lift way more than I could and then being proven wrong made me feel happy for challenging some assumptions...


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:14 am 
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mandycoot wrote:
I get that a lot from repairpeople/craftsmen/handymen/Home Depot employees! It's so infuriating, especially since I'm the handy one in our relationship and if we're both present I'm usually the one doing the talking and providing all the details, but if my husband is around they'll always talk to him first, or respond to him when I've just asked a question. Or if he's not home they'll make a bunch of references to my husband and how "the boss" will be so interested in all these details when he gets home. Dude, my husband gives no forks what valve you replaced in the washer, I'm the one who deals with it, and I make pretty much all purchasing decisions in this house and I will totally not hire you again if you don't stop belittling me.

We had workmen at our house just after we moved in. While they were doing their thing, I was going around doing other move in tasks, one of which was replacing a lightbulb in the garage door opener. The plumber freaked the hell out when he saw me start climbing a step ladder and tried to insist on doing it for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:20 pm 
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One of my managers today. She and a coworker and I were talking, and she outrightly stated, "That's why we didn't hire many girls at my old store...it was just easier to have the staff be men."
I nearly lost it on the floor today. This otherwise very feminist folk musician figured it would be easier to just hire all men instead of forcing the customers to stop being so damned sexist. It's a guitar. You know who was supposed to learn the guitar when it first became A Thing? Women. It was considered a skill of great importance to play an instrument, so you could spend your days in fruitful pursuits. It was akin to needlepoint or gardening or whatever the hell else women needed to do in order to be a good wife candidate.
And, you know what? The banjo was mainly played by women initially, too. In kitchens and on porches.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:32 pm 
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this is basically an instance of my feminism clashing with someone else's. i happened upon this blog post, where the author describes a girl shilling for PETA as "ridiculously super thin". i challenge this, saying it's not cool to body-snark regardless of size, and the author claims it's not snark, but an accurate description of her body. i critique this claim while insisting that i know about thin privilege and feminist issues with PETA, and i get told that i'm "attempting to deflect the argument". urgh.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:17 pm 
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annnnd i got totally shut down with a passive-aggressive-sounding "thank you for your comments". i'm no stranger to feminist & anti-oppression blogs, but gotdamn i don't think i've ever come across one like this before.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:27 am 
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EmperorTomatoKetchup wrote:
annnnd i got totally shut down with a passive-aggressive-sounding "thank you for your comments". i'm no stranger to feminist & anti-oppression blogs, but gotdamn i don't think i've ever come across one like this before.
I think you handled that beautifully and made yourself perfectly clear. The blogger was either being obtuse - whether deliberately or otherwise - or felt personally put on the defensive by your comments but was unwilling to cop to the fact that she screwed up her own argument by resorting to making an attack on an individual woman's body as part of her attempt to address a broader issue. Of course, she could just be a sloppy thinker, but I think that the second explanation rings truest, particularly (and ironically) since that's precisely the accusation she kept leveling at you.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:28 am 
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Desdemona wrote:
EmperorTomatoKetchup wrote:
annnnd i got totally shut down with a passive-aggressive-sounding "thank you for your comments". i'm no stranger to feminist & anti-oppression blogs, but gotdamn i don't think i've ever come across one like this before.
I think you handled that beautifully and made yourself perfectly clear. The blogger was either being obtuse - whether deliberately or otherwise - or felt personally put on the defensive by your comments but was unwilling to cop to the fact that she screwed up her own argument by resorting to making an attack on an individual woman's body as part of her attempt to address a broader issue. Of course, she could just be a sloppy thinker, but I think that the second explanation rings truest, particularly (and ironically) since that's precisely the accusation she kept leveling at you.


There are so many issues with that piece but I am not interested in engaging someone in a debate when they run a blog with a title like Academic Abolitionist Vegan. Desdemona's analysis is likely to be the truth. When the word abolitionist appears non-ironically, I head for the hills.

She does have a post in which she engages one of my least favorite vegans about whether or not men can be feminists. She says no because

Quote:
To be feminist is to be a self-identified woman fighting for female equality. To be a feminist requires a direct experience of gender oppression, because it is this unique experience as a member of the targeted group that will inform activism. Men who become disgruntled with this definition and demand inclusion only underscore the ubiquitousness of male privilege
.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:14 am 
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Quote:
To be feminist is to be a self-identified woman fighting for female equality. To be a feminist requires a direct experience of gender oppression, because it is this unique experience as a member of the targeted group that will inform activism. Men who become disgruntled with this definition and demand inclusion only underscore the ubiquitousness of male privilege

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. NO.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:17 am 
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That challenges my feminism because it makes me not want to share the title of feminist with people who think like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:22 am 
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Fee wrote:
That challenges my feminism because it makes me not want to share the title of feminist with people who think like that.
No girls in the boys' clubhouse and no boys in the girls' clubhouse!!! (Also: boys have cooties.)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:03 pm 
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We really don't give a crepe whether you, a man, think its wrong...and the fact that you consider it "sexist" to be excluded illustrates how little you understand the meaning of sexism.


Quote:
Let's also get past the fact that no man has any place defining what feminism is.


Boys go to Jupiter to get more... Wait. Theory in the hands of the wrong person is a deadly weapon. Let that be a lesson to you, my friends.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:33 pm 
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The guy working at the hostel I'm staying at here in Brazil was a challenge for me today. I'm here alone just now having a rest day, and was sitting out on the patio in a bikini top when he came across to talk. At first I was happy to practice some Portuguese as most of the other guests here are non-Brazilians, but he quickly turned the conversation around to my sexual preferences/orientation and whether I ever had or would consider sleeping with a man (I am female). The whole situation has left me feeling pretty uncomfortable and a little insecure, and a small part of me wonders if it was my own fault for not wearing a shirt or something even though it is very hot here and I know full well that no matter what I wear, that's not an invitation to any kind of sexual questioning!

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