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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:30 pm 
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aelle wrote:

lutin wrote:
I hate how it reinforces the fact that I am terrified (deeply, physically shaken and terrified) of the thought of sexual assault, of all of the bullshiitake ways sexual assault is used, and how I have to watch myself (and my surroundings, and all the men around me) like a hawk to "feel" "safe". I also hate that that kind of watchfulness is considered status quo (talk about a forking unnecessary necessity!) and that it's actually "worse" to not be so watchful.


I haven't seen the facebook thing, but I share your feelings here. Recently I saw this state, of constantly being on guard and careful, described as a tax on being a woman, and I thought that was a good way to put it. It's a tax you pay in lost peace of mind and in missed opportunities.


Yes, yes, yes, and yes. This perpetual watchfulness is something that is so hard to convey to the male friends in my life.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:39 pm 
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http://jezebel.com/lady-earns-engagement-ring-by-making-300-sad-sandwiches-1383822830

Ugh. This resonates with me a lot as I've always felt compelled to 'perform' for love. Also, I'm digging the portmanteau "adorawful".

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:50 pm 
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ndpittman wrote:
http://jezebel.com/lady-earns-engagement-ring-by-making-300-sad-sandwiches-1383822830

Ugh. This resonates with me a lot as I've always felt compelled to 'perform' for love. Also, I'm digging the portmanteau "adorawful".


Yeah. I am struggling with this.
For my mom, cooking is love. But I don't expect it from her. For my husband, cooking is love, but he doesn't expect it from anyone else.

My problem was some of her wording. Like the bit about making up for being 45 minutes late with dinner the night before. That just set off bells.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:01 pm 
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I admit that I'm a walking cliche when it comes to a culturally Jewish woman who feeds people as love. But for it to count as love it has to be given freely and received graciously and gratefully. Otherwise I'm just a line cook. My husband loves how much I cook for him, and brags about it to others. But that is a gesture of our love, not the basis for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:21 pm 
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I think the sandwich lady and the NJ housewife lady would get along just fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:35 pm 
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A woman in a friend's FB discussion is really challenging me at the moment. She's denying that a woman altering her appearance (hair removal, makeup, heels, etc) has anything to do with feminism and has been gaslighting other women in the conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:43 pm 
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linanil wrote:
I think the sandwich lady and the NJ housewife lady would get along just fine.


I think Pulsating Spinster Star should tour with A Whimsy of Scallion.

I like sandwiches and I also feed people I love but this is disturbing.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:56 pm 
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What seems so weird to me about the sandwiches thing is, like, I could see someone making the initial comment as a (not that funny) joke. But then making it into some kind of verbal contract and doing the project is... bizarre to me. I just read the article, not the blog in question, but the whole concept just makes me kind of bummed.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:59 pm 
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And the thought of "earning" her engagement ring is not sitting well with me. That implies a strange imbalance.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Pinko wrote:
But then making it into some kind of verbal contract and doing the project is... bizarre to me. I just read the article, not the blog in question, but the whole concept just makes me kind of bummed.


I just read the about and bio on her blog and skimmed a few entries. She says that "barring any major fights or infidelities" (major infidelities?) they'll "likely go all the way" anyway. I dunno. She's been at it for more than a year, so if she really wanted that ring she'd already have made 300 sandwiches, right? Ugh.

I feel like it, I don't know, gamifies courtship? Which is already pretty gamified in the mainstream US.

Maybe she just wants a sandwich cookbook deal!


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Yes and based on the article, it seems like she is supposed to make 300 different types of sandwiches. So... I mean I can imagine it being a joke but actually trying to follow through and to 'smooth things over' by making a sandwich, it is crazy.

I am ok with food as love but food shouldn't be a requirement to receive 'love' from someone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:08 pm 
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kfad wrote:
And the thought of "earning" her engagement ring is not sitting well with me. That implies a strange imbalance.

Yeah, that's gross.

The whole thing is just very strange to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:11 pm 
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ndpittman wrote:
http://jezebel.com/lady-earns-engagement-ring-by-making-300-sad-sandwiches-1383822830

Ugh. This resonates with me a lot as I've always felt compelled to 'perform' for love. Also, I'm digging the portmanteau "adorawful".

This is from her blog:
Quote:
E was a great nurse. He helped me relax when I was told I need a biopsy. He took me snowboarding during the days after the biopsy so I could refocus on something other than the results. When doctors said the lump was benign, we celebrated over a nice dinner out.

He did, however, ask if this meant that I would be able to get breast implants since they “have to cut ‘em open anyway.”

He's a keeper.
http://300sandwiches.com/sandwich-68-du ... -sandwich/


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Man, I was really hoping they cherry picked the douchiest quotes for the article, but wow. What a peach. I'm half tempted to go annoy myself reading her blog now.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:24 pm 
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kfad wrote:
...the bit about making up for being 45 minutes late with dinner the night before. That just set off bells.

Small distinction, and I had to read it three times to be sure, but she said she was making up for being 45 minutes late for dinner. If biker boy left me sitting in a restaurant for 45 minutes waiting for him, I might be a bit peeved depending on the reason. If he did a little something nice the next day as gesture of apology it wouldn't seem inappropriate. Different than the scenario I think you were envisioning, along the lines of "my boyfriend expects dinner on the table when he gets home from work and last night I was 45 minutes late, how can make up for failing to follow his rules?"

The rest of it is sort of sad and pathetic. I like making food for people I love. But it's a gesture of affection, not a transaction.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:31 pm 
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monkeytoes wrote:
kfad wrote:
...the bit about making up for being 45 minutes late with dinner the night before. That just set off bells.

Small distinction, and I had to read it three times to be sure, but she said she was making up for being 45 minutes late for dinner. If biker boy left me sitting in a restaurant for 45 minutes waiting for him, I might be a bit peeved depending on the reason. If he did a little something nice the next day as gesture of apology it wouldn't seem inappropriate. Different than the scenario I think you were envisioning, along the lines of "my boyfriend expects dinner on the table when he gets home from work and last night I was 45 minutes late, how can make up for failing to follow his rules?"

The rest of it is sort of sad and pathetic. I like making food for people I love. But it's a gesture of affection, not a transaction.


Thank you for clarifying that. It does make a difference, you are correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:37 pm 
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Well, in just the post that is above re: him supporting her while she had a biopsy, it sounded quite nice that he cleaned the house for her and set up a post-op oasis for her to recover.

I thought the whole idea of 'earning' your ring was antiquated and insulting, but maybe they both have a sense of humor that doesn't translate well. I could see this being a personal joke - him making a joke about women making sandwiches (there's a meme for that!) and her taking it up as a joke challenge, but now people are taking it more literally than she intended.

It seems at least a shared joke unlike Love Italian Style, which is really quite disturbing, and has no sense of humor about itself. I guess I've been doing pooping wrong - by not only pooping in the house, but announcing it rather proudly. My veganpoops are the best!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:29 pm 
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madeleine.teacup wrote:

I think Pulsating Spinster Star should tour with A Whimsy of Scallion.


YES.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:15 pm 
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Shamini wrote:
ndpittman wrote:
http://jezebel.com/lady-earns-engagement-ring-by-making-300-sad-sandwiches-1383822830

Ugh. This resonates with me a lot as I've always felt compelled to 'perform' for love. Also, I'm digging the portmanteau "adorawful".

This is from her blog:
Quote:
E was a great nurse. He helped me relax when I was told I need a biopsy. He took me snowboarding during the days after the biopsy so I could refocus on something other than the results. When doctors said the lump was benign, we celebrated over a nice dinner out.

He did, however, ask if this meant that I would be able to get breast implants since they “have to cut ‘em open anyway.”

He's a keeper.
http://300sandwiches.com/sandwich-68-du ... -sandwich/
And they say chivalry is dead. Excuse me while I go vomit for a week.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:57 pm 
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I love how a bunch of the Jezebel commenters predicted "he'll dump her right after sandwich #298."

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:11 pm 
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I think I'm challenging my own feminism, because as a feminist I really want to be offended by this but as a driver it sounds AWESOME. With the possible exception of needing a garage to remove the hood, but I love all the other stuff.. WANT. It's possible to design a car to need oil changes only every 30k miles? Tires that don't need to be changed immediately? Ponytail holes in the headrests? Removable covers for all the upholstery (not so much because I am capricious about colors as that I have a toddler who pees on things)? Hand over the car keys and nobody gets hurt.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:44 am 
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Now, I quite like some aspects of that car as it's nice to see female drivers considered first on the design front for a change rather than the automatic assumption that the driver will be a man, particularly in regard to ergonomics. However, this bit pissed me off:

Quote:
On closer inspection one could see that there was no hood, that is, no access panel permitting access to the car’s engine. Engine maintenance required taking out the whole front end of the car body, preferably in some establishment with the required space and equipment. This was not supposed to happen often, as the engine was designed to need an oil change only after 50,000 km (31,000 mi) and to automatically send a radio message to a garage a short time before any required maintenance.


The assumption that women are unwilling or incapable of doing their own vehicle maintenance is just so backwards and insulting.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:04 am 
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http://www.salon.com/2013/09/25/univers ... _by_women/

Well, now I definitely don't need to read any of his books. Not that I wanted to, they always look cringe-worthy when I had to sell them.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:43 am 
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Imogen wrote:
Quote:
On closer inspection one could see that there was no hood, that is, no access panel permitting access to the car’s engine. Engine maintenance required taking out the whole front end of the car body, preferably in some establishment with the required space and equipment. This was not supposed to happen often, as the engine was designed to need an oil change only after 50,000 km (31,000 mi) and to automatically send a radio message to a garage a short time before any required maintenance.


The assumption that women are unwilling or incapable of doing their own vehicle maintenance is just so backwards and insulting.

Insulting as well as missing the fact that most men are also unwilling or incapable. we see it in the shop every day.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:38 am 
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Re the maintenance, I know! That part made me cringe too. I wonder, from a design perspective, whether there was a particular reason to sacrifice user maintenance in order to make the maintenance so much less frequent (I am TOTALLY onboard with only changing oil every 30k miles).

Personally as an engineer-in-a-former-life, I love debugging and fixing things in cars, but routine maintenance? No. Plus, I like the consideration that people don't want to wait at the side of the highway for help when their car breaks down; I think the tires you can drive home to deal with it later are brilliant.

So I feel very ambivalent. I hate the IDEA of not being able to fix things - that's a big part of why I bought one of the last old macbooks rather than a new retina one. But do I actually want to do car maintenance? shiitake no.


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