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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:50 pm 
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Image[/quote]

Grandpa Walton was a radical gay communist! (Or, at least, the actor who played him was.)[/quote]Right you are! He also founded a theatrically-themed garden featuring every single plant, tree, and flower mentioned in the Shakespeare canon. (Hence, my longstanding, somewhat pervy crush on him!)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:25 pm 
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Dworkin had some wrong headed ideas but some of her writing on pornography is pretty powerful and dead on. She did some amazing analysis of particular pornographic images that are amazing.

Second wave feminism is so diverse and included groups that embraced a wide variety of positions, some fairly mainstream & some fairly radical. It did bring women of color, lesbians and poor women into the movement. The accomplishments of this movement include:
*dealing with marital rape
*educational equality
*no fault divorce & equal division of marital property
*equal access to credit
*the integration of women into much of American society
*legalization of contraceptives in every state
While not perfect, what those people did accomplish is pretty damn amazing. Much of it is taken for granted by shameless people who reap the benefits of feminism but don't like the word.

One thing I dislike about some of the more recent feminists is this idea that pornography is in and of itself liberating or that to critique the industry, it's products or it's treatment of women is to be anti-sex. Just because it ain't all bad doesn't mean that it's all good.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:34 pm 
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A guy I went on one blind date with called me a "feminazi" because I said "are you sure?" when he offered to pay for my drink.
I don't even do that for gender-challenging reasons or whatever, I just do it out of habit to be polite/ not seem like a gold digger. My ex was all about 50-50 and I don't like to assume that the guy will pay. I don't get why some people are so weird about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Ew, gnarls! I hope that guy didn't get a second date!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:56 pm 
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What I think is interesting about the critiques I've heard (and made) about second-wave feminism/ts is that it anachronistically expects people to be above or outside the system they found themselves in.

Yes, there was a lot of transphobia (racism, etc) in many second wave feminisms, and there still is in many forms of lesbian separatism for example, as well as some third wave feminist movements, but society in general was much more transphobic than it is now (not that it's all kittens and lollipops now). Which is not to excuse transphobia anywhere, anytime, but I don't think it does anyone or any feminism any good to take the vantage point we have now--thanks to those activists--and to apply it to them after the fact as a failing. As a point of learning, yes. But as a way to discredit their amazing work, absolutely not.

Plus, what I think we often fail to acknowledge, is that even having this knowledge and the time to question and challenge these things is in itself a huge privilege.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:30 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
What I think is interesting about the critiques I've heard (and made) about second-wave feminism/ts is that it anachronistically expects people to be above or outside the system they found themselves in.

Yes, there was a lot of transphobia (racism, etc) in many second wave feminisms, and there still is in many forms of lesbian separatism for example, as well as some third wave feminist movements, but society in general was much more transphobic than it is now (not that it's all kittens and lollipops now). Which is not to excuse transphobia anywhere, anytime, but I don't think it does anyone or any feminism any good to take the vantage point we have now--thanks to those activists--and to apply it to them after the fact as a failing. As a point of learning, yes. But as a way to discredit their amazing work, absolutely not.

Plus, what I think we often fail to acknowledge, is that even having this knowledge and the time to question and challenge these things is in itself a huge privilege.


Sure, but I will still use my privilege to criticize what I think is unjust or hateful or wrong. I do it in all areas of my life. Why wouldn't I do with with feminism?

As I said, I was wrong to use the term "second wave," when what I meant was the anti-porn, anti-trans, separatist nonsense. I acknowledge that there were good things to come from second wave feminism as the term is properly used.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:42 pm 
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Oh totally, and I think you should.

I wasn't just responding to you, I was also thinking about what I've heard a lot of with the very many young feminists I hang out with, who seem to sometimes be unable to see the good from the second wave because of the bad that also existed.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:29 am 
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Desdemona wrote:
Right you are! He also founded a theatrically-themed garden featuring every single plant, tree, and flower mentioned in the Shakespeare canon. (Hence, my longstanding, somewhat pervy crush on him!)



Hopefully that has worked out better...because the group that wanted all of Shakespeare's birds in Central Park got us the awful starling and house sparrow across the entire continent. They weren't ok with just central park, it turns out.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:14 am 
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According to the History Channel yesterday, when riding in carriages, men sat on whatever side was closest to the buildings. That way, when someone dumped their chamber pot out the window, the lady wouldn't get covered in poo.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:17 am 
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fezza wrote:
Larisa wrote:
RatsRGods wrote:
When we are walking down a street he is obsessive about making sure he walks on the side closest to the street (I guess as "protection" incase a car were to run us over. Which, I realize is silly, but it's still kinda sweet)


I'm pretty sure that the original point of this bit of etiquette was that, when mud splashed from the streets (as would often happen in an era of horses and dirt roads), it would get on the man's overcoat rather than the woman's dress.


I read it was because only prostitutes walked on the outside of the footpath when with a man.

But eeeww http://www.trivia-library.com/a/why-men ... -woman.htm


Okay, this is what I get for not clicking on your link. Sorry for my post of redundancy.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 12:34 pm 
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crowderpea wrote:
According to the History Channel yesterday, when riding in carriages, men sat on whatever side was closest to the buildings. That way, when someone dumped their chamber pot out the window, the lady wouldn't get covered in poo.


Whaaaa!? I never thought dodging poo flying out of windows was a problem back in the day. That's gross. They didn't have a hole dug in the basement or something?!


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:11 pm 
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If you're in a multi-story building, you might not have (access to) a basement. If the rest of Europe was like Scotland back in the day, the street and the sewer were one.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Ah, Edinburgh. That park is so beautiful. I'm so glad it got to be fertilised with a constant stream of feces and the occasional corpse.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:44 am 
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http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2 ... l-me-foxy/

Mostly the comments.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:48 pm 
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WHAT THE forking fork. No.
http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-girl- ... ist-issue/

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:11 pm 
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b.vicious wrote:

Holy shiitake, the comments. HOLY shiitake. (_jsw_ is.. *drumroll* a man! Quelle surprise!)

The only good that came out of that article is this: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/06/01/why-wearing-mini-skirts-is-a-feminist-issue/

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:20 pm 
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stephanie wrote:
b.vicious wrote:

Holy shiitake, the comments. HOLY shiitake. (_jsw_ is.. *drumroll* a man! Quelle surprise!)

The only good that came out of that article is this: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/06/01/why-wearing-mini-skirts-is-a-feminist-issue/

Yes! The funny thing is, I read the Feministe one first and was getting SO steamed at Jill until I reach the end.. haha.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Funny, I always thought the best way to prevent rape is to not be a rapist. Who knew?

I have major issues with the way drunkeness is glamorized (alcoholism and addiction on both sides of my family, my husband is in recovery for alcoholism and addiction), but my issue has nothing to do with the sex or gender identity of the person getting loaded.

Policing women's behavior while giving a pass to dudes doing the same shiitake is never a feminist act.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:08 pm 
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jessilikewhoa wrote:
Policing women's behavior while giving a pass to dudes doing the same shiitake is never a feminist act.


So true


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:45 pm 
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I love this thread!

Back in 1990 when I was graduating high school, I was voted "Biggest Women's Libber". When I walked up to get the award, the football players started boo-ing. My best friend at the time stood up and chastized them, which was really funny. Also, my Sociology teacher signed my yearbook "Keep up the fight!" and put the symbol for 'woman' next to it. Sometime after that my father told me "You know, the worst thing you ever said to me was that you were a feminist." what the fizzle??? I don't remember what I said to him at the time, but it always stuck with me. Recently I asked him why he would say something like that to me and he had no memory of it at all (of course). But he apologized and agreed that it was a super stupid thing to say.

I like when anyone opens a door for anyone. When a man refuses to walk through a door that a woman is holding, I get really irritated.

And finally, one of my favorite movies is "Iron Jawed Angels" - a movie about us (finally) getting the right to vote.

There's my 2 cents!


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:52 pm 
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masuphl wrote:
When a man refuses to walk through a door that a woman is holding, I get really irritated.


That HAPPENS?! Wow.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:28 am 
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graffitipassion wrote:
masuphl wrote:
When a man refuses to walk through a door that a woman is holding, I get really irritated.


That HAPPENS?! Wow.

My boyfriend's father does this. I mean, if I was really demanding about it he would probably suck it up. It usually goes like this: when I've held the door for everyone else in our group, as we're going into a restaurant or something, he'll be the last person in and insist on holding the door for me - because obviously holding it for just one more person would be too much for me to handle! *faint*

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:58 am 
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graffitipassion wrote:
masuphl wrote:
When a man refuses to walk through a door that a woman is holding, I get really irritated.


That HAPPENS?! Wow.

YES. I hate it too. It happens most with older men at work or at the gym. They give you this look like you're hopelessly naive. Or like the way you look at a kid reaching for something up high who declares "I can do it myself" and you know he can't, but you smile a little and watch them try until you help out.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:28 am 
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joyfulgirl wrote:
graffitipassion wrote:
masuphl wrote:
When a man refuses to walk through a door that a woman is holding, I get really irritated.


That HAPPENS?! Wow.

YES. I hate it too. It happens most with older men at work or at the gym. They give you this look like you're hopelessly naive. Or like the way you look at a kid reaching for something up high who declares "I can do it myself" and you know he can't, but you smile a little and watch them try until you help out.



Lol! Yes! That's the look!


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:58 am 
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b.vicious wrote:
graffitipassion wrote:
masuphl wrote:
When a man refuses to walk through a door that a woman is holding, I get really irritated.


That HAPPENS?! Wow.

My boyfriend's father does this. I mean, if I was really demanding about it he would probably suck it up. It usually goes like this: when I've held the door for everyone else in our group, as we're going into a restaurant or something, he'll be the last person in and insist on holding the door for me - because obviously holding it for just one more person would be too much for me to handle! *faint*


He's not doing it for you. He's doing it to keep from going gay.

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