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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:47 am 
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lavawitch wrote:
I was a huge Barbie fan growing up. Military kids always had the coolest Barbie collections since parents had a network to bring back toys from other countries, so we all had culturally diverse Barbies. The Japanese Barbies were my favorite. And that was completely random other than that (in my experience frowing up on military bases) kids like diversity when and if given the opportunity.

I liked my pocahontas barbie the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:25 am 
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My nieces are big into Disney princesses, so this bothers me immensely. Even if they are only 5 and 3, I'm sure they are absorbing all of this crepe. That's another reason I liked Brave so much. Plus, my nieces resemble Merida (wee poppets with wild red curls). Maybe I'll try to talk to them about it. Of course I try to talk to them and they squeal and run around. Kids. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:47 am 
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My bff just told me this story:

"A guy I know from the hospital just came to the bus stop and recognised that I have lost quite a bit of weight since last he saw me. To point this out, he put both his hands on my waist and said I was looking very good."

She's lost about 90 pounds in the last year, and she's really proud of herself for having done so. But regardless, who the fork is he to comment on her body and touch her?! She said she's casually friendly with this guy and didn't feel any grossness, but she agreed with me that it was inappropriate. I don't think she said that to him, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:13 pm 
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VeganinBerlin wrote:
lavawitch wrote:
I was a huge Barbie fan growing up. Military kids always had the coolest Barbie collections since parents had a network to bring back toys from other countries, so we all had culturally diverse Barbies. The Japanese Barbies were my favorite. And that was completely random other than that (in my experience frowing up on military bases) kids like diversity when and if given the opportunity.

I liked my pocahontas barbie the best.


Good grief, I wasn't being condescending or whatever you think I was. Barbies from different countries were all completely different in style, different clothes, accessories, etc. Since they were designed to sell in other countries, they were all pretty unique. So a Japanese Barbie came with all sorts of cool things that little girls in Japan loved that were totally different than what we had here, like the style of clothes and scooters or little newspapers, and e big one body type. The dolls were still recognizable as Barbie type but they had a more realistic body. We used to send American Barbies there in exchange. Trading around toys from other countries was pretty popular on the military bases because we liked meeting people from everywhere and learning about other places. But anyway my point, if I had one, was that Disney stuck in this idea that all kids want or need is a string of busty white princess dolls with different colored hair is stupid and wasn't true in 1975 either.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:19 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
VeganinBerlin wrote:
lavawitch wrote:
I was a huge Barbie fan growing up. Military kids always had the coolest Barbie collections since parents had a network to bring back toys from other countries, so we all had culturally diverse Barbies. The Japanese Barbies were my favorite. And that was completely random other than that (in my experience frowing up on military bases) kids like diversity when and if given the opportunity.

I liked my pocahontas barbie the best.


Good grief, I wasn't being condescending or whatever you think I was.


I think I'm missing something.... I googled and there is a Pocahantas Barbie out there, so I don't see why its condescending. But I may be missing something.

My husband gave L two Barbies from thrift stores, maybe I should donate them...

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:24 pm 
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A friend just posted a photo of her barely-1-year-old son in a "Hey ladies, I'm single" shirt. Y'all, it is taking all I have not to ask how she knows he's not gay.


Last edited by annak on Sat May 11, 2013 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:28 pm 
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BAHAHAHA! A friend just posted photos of her 1 year old in a "Ladies Man" T :)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:


I think I'm missing something.... I googled and there is a Pocahantas Barbie out there, so I don't see why its condescending. But I may be missing something.

I dont understand it either, I wasn't joking. I was a huge fan of Pocahontas and Mulan as a kid, and this and Casper were the only Disney films I really loved. And I do think it was because they were a bit more interesting, also in the story line. I could just relate to them in a better way. I think, as stupid as it sounds, but I do think it made a difference to me that i played with a "normal" barbie and a normal ken and then I had Pocahontas and Kokoum as well. I guess it was just a lucky coindidence, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:45 pm 
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I grew up in Austria (in the 80s) and I do think that exposure to things, even things as hokey as Winnetou by Karl May (so so so unrealistic in many ways), made a difference to children being more accepting of racial differences. And for me as a person of color, it was nice to see another person of color depicted, even if that person was just a white guy in make-up (would never fly today!). Its purely anecdotal though, no science behind it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:52 pm 
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"The New Jim Crow" talks a little bit about this in a 'why black people were a big part of the audience at minstrel shows' aside. Representation, even shiitake representation, can be better than invisibility.

(TNJC is actually an excellent, thought provoking book. I don't agree with every word of it and I think some of the criticisms are legitimate, but it is just so incredibly well-researched, thoughtful, challenging, provocative, interesting, and really mind-changing, that I think everyone should read it. It has implications way beyond the drug war--reading "Lean In" right now and it is affecting how I view some of the conclusions in *that* book, like that more women in leadership will improve women's rights.)


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Thanks for the recommendation! So maybe there is some science behind it, eh? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:02 pm 
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Can anyone help me? I'm a huge football (soccer) fan, go to a game every weekend wherever my team play. As such, I have a lot of friends on FB and Twitter, some I've met and some I haven't, but all feel close to me. Rape has become a very common phrase in terms of forwards going past defenders. I don't think most of the people using it have any idea what it actually means. I'd like to tell them in a non confrontational way. I've started a tweet or FB reponse many times only to delete it because I don't want to look like some kind of PC jerk. Can anyone suggest a really good thought provoking response which won't make them all delete or unfollow me?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:02 pm 
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It's complicated? Mostly I was thinking about how people tend to embrace depictions they can identify with even if they're shiitake depictions more than that people raised with less than ideal/accurate depictions vs. no exposure are more culturally accepting. I will say that the kinds of people I know within the military who seek and thrive in overseas assignments are a very different group of people than people who really want to stay in one town their whole careers--even before they go. So I don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Just ignore me. I don't know what I was thinking.

I don't think Barbies by themselves are bad or harmful. I also had piles of Legos, everything Starwars etc etc. I think it depends what else the kid is exposed to. An issue of Seventeen magazine did more to crush my self esteem than a childhood of Barbies.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:30 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
Just ignore me. I don't know what I was thinking.

I don't think Barbies by themselves are bad or harmful. I also had piles of Legos, everything Starwars etc etc. I think it depends what else the kid is exposed to. An issue of Seventeen magazine did more to crush my self esteem than a childhood of Barbies.


Ugh. Yes. I think 17 was the worst. Do you remember those ads where you could mail in some money for a booklet about how to lose weight fast? I was always trying to get some money together to get that. I'm glad I never actually sent away for it, but that is the kind of stuff that really drives body image issues home, or did for me at least, coupled with all the pictures in the magazine.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Masculinizing the feminine: http://pinterest.com/socimages/masculin ... -feminine/

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:53 pm 
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I don't remember the booklets but I remember photos of "perfect" girls next to articles on dieting. Sick stuff. My mom banned it from the house. Vogue, for all if its issues at least doesn't like on the ads for diet yogurt.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:16 pm 
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So I jog, and my jogging route takes me past my place of employment. All the other employees are male. (Grown 30+, married, children) If they are in their cars, they will honk their horns and yell out the window. The other day my co-worker asked me if I judge how good a run was by how many honks I receive, and he was completely serious, he thinks he's doing me a favor by honking at me. He also said some other stuff graphic enough I don't really want to say. They also all tend to congregate and stare (pretty obviously, too) if there is a 'hot chick'. There is other stuff too, but the honking and the staring and talking about the hot chick they just saw really just get to me, especially since they are all grown men with young daughters.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Efcliz wrote:
Can anyone help me? I'm a huge football (soccer) fan, go to a game every weekend wherever my team play. As such, I have a lot of friends on FB and Twitter, some I've met and some I haven't, but all feel close to me. Rape has become a very common phrase in terms of forwards going past defenders. I don't think most of the people using it have any idea what it actually means. I'd like to tell them in a non confrontational way. I've started a tweet or FB reponse many times only to delete it because I don't want to look like some kind of PC jerk. Can anyone suggest a really good thought provoking response which won't make them all delete or unfollow me?

This is horrible. The best I've come up with is just a simple "please don't make rape jokes around me" or "I promise you that is not even remotely close to rape. Using rape to describe anything but forced sex cheapens the word and harms survivors."

Or, if it would be helpful for you to have a "my friend who is a survivor says this" to avoid backlash feel free to tell them that your friend (me, we're friends, right? Why not!) says this: I was raped. It was the most scary, disempowering experience of my life and years later I am still affected by it. There have been times when I would rather have died than be assaulted. I have also played defense and I promise you a forward getting past me is so far from being raped that I can't even wrap my head around the comparison. Please remember that 1 in 3 women will experience sexualized violence in their lifetime. Chances are someone you care about has been assaulted, even though they may not share that with you. Every time you use the word "rape" casually it is a slap in the face to me and to the survivors you love.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:02 pm 
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TexTroosers wrote:
So I jog, and my jogging route takes me past my place of employment. All the other employees are male. (Grown 30+, married, children) If they are in their cars, they will honk their horns and yell out the window. The other day my co-worker asked me if I judge how good a run was by how many honks I receive, and he was completely serious, he thinks he's doing me a favor by honking at me. He also said some other stuff graphic enough I don't really want to say. They also all tend to congregate and stare (pretty obviously, too) if there is a 'hot chick'. There is other stuff too, but the honking and the staring and talking about the hot chick they just saw really just get to me, especially since they are all grown men with young daughters.


I would start documenting instances of this. If you decide you want to go to HR or your manager about it, you will have documented evidence of a pattern.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:25 pm 
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I find it so interesting that the Cleveland abduction case is getting so much coverage (http://www.delawareonline.com/article/2 ... ldblooded-) while our society really doesn't seem to take sex trafficking seriously. Here in NYC a man was arrested for holding 3 young women (one was only 17) captive, that he was trafficking and his bail was only $30,000. http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/ ... ng-charges

The details of the Cleveland case are still coming out, of course, but many women who are trafficked suffer the same kind of brutality described by the victims in the Cleveland case - uncertainty as to whether they will live or die, beatings, rape, forced abortions. no medical care, inadequate housing, no freedom to come and go, and yet our society really doesn't take their plight seriously. The only difference is that the Cleveland victims were raped by one perpetrator, while women who are trafficked are raped by numerous men, and are called prostitutes. It seems like if you can call a woman a prostitute etc, there isn't much protection that society will offer her.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0 ... index.html

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:24 am 
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I think a lot of the coverage also has to do with the fact that the families involved never really stopped publicizing the missing, so in the area, two of the women were pretty well known.

People without strong advocates never get the same coverage. Like Natalie Holloway. She was pretty, white and blond, which usually seems to help, but she also had parents who continually went on every talk show everywhere to ensure that the case stayed current.

We can hope that the case in Cleveland helps get other cases more attention.

Your post also made me think of the long island serial killer. Nobody pays much attention to that case and it's probably because society doesn't give the victims much thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 5:00 pm 
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I raced my bike today. For those who have never done it, bike races are forking HARD AS shiitake. I ride about 200 miles per week and work my asparagus off, and I still have to fight like hell just to hold on. I love doing it.

So, I'm racing and just fighting and struggling and strategizing, and my field rides by these two joggers who are running towards us on the opposite side of the road, and one of the forkers WOLF WHISTLES the entire field of racers! What the fork, dude? Can you please just fork off, because we are BUSY BEING AWESOME.

To top it all off, today is Cyclo Femme, a day where women who ride go out and race or ride and pledge to help other women discover how empowering and awesome cycling is. Lame.

I guess my feminism isn't challenged by that. I'm just super annoyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:43 pm 
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I read an article about the Cleveland kidnappings yesterday that mentioned, among other things, that the women were starved and that one of them gave birth in a kiddie pool with another woman's help while their kidnapper threatened to kill them. On the right side of the screen was ad for diet pills and also a picture of a skinny woman in a bikini with a caption about how good she looked just two weeks after giving birth. I hate this shiitake.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Ugh. That makes me so stabby. Sometimes I feel like our whole culture is challenging my feminism.


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