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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:48 am 
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ndpittman wrote:
Tofulish wrote:
I think people don't get that if you are pro-choice - which means that you leave the choice up to the woman and her MD - you are effectively saying "this is not a space for the state (me included) to be weighing in.

A friend of mine (who has twins) was upset at reading about a NYT article about a woman who voluntarily reduced her twin pregnancy, because she didn't feel like she could manage being the parent of twins. There are many reasons to reduce multiple pregnancies, and if you are pro-choice, you leave that decision to the woman, even if you might make a different decision in her shoes.

I am really interested by how apathetic people are about choice or birth control. It seems like the vast majority would agree that those things are important and many of us avail ourselves of birth control on a regular basis. And yet a small vocal minority keeps pushing for more state involvement for purely political and non-medical reasons (like with keeping Plan B from being OTC for minors). How do we let those people win?


A little off topic, but is it common to reduce multiple births? I mean, I know that multiple births aren't as common, but I've never heard of that. Not that that means anything, lots of things I've never heard of.

Also, Mandycoot, that sucks!!


The Wikipedia page gives some info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_reduction

I had heard that it isn't unusual for those that go the IVF route but obviously someone should be allowed to make that decision if they want.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:55 am 
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Thanks, linanlil. I agree; I've just never heard of it. And if I were a writer I'd like to write a story from the perspective of the child with kind of a leitmotif of being "chosen". That doesn't change how I view the reality version of women having a right to their bodies though. I just think it'd be a good read.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:43 pm 
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SassyOh wrote:
I keep meeting people, mostly women, who claim to be pro-choice but support ideas like criminalizing miscarriage because they think doing so will 'punish' women who use drugs during pregnancy (?!?!?!?) I've stopped trying to make sense of the things they say. One of them once told me, "I'm pro-choice, but I also think that after you get a certain amount of abortions you should be sterilized."
Right. They get a choice between having an unwanted child or involuntary sterilization! So many options!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:39 pm 
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If you have a lot of D&Cs, you can end up with uterine scarring that causes infertility (aka Asherman's Syndrome), so they can all calm down and know that it's automatic!


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:16 pm 
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I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but it speaks to concerns raised previously about boys being called "strong" and girls being called "beautiful". It also touches on the Lego adverts. I thought it was really interesting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 40751.html

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:29 pm 
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This is something that always irritates me at schools. If the sports team is the Tigers, the boys are the Tigers, and the girls have to be qualified as Lady Tigers. Why can't they just be Tigers too?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:37 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
This is something that always irritates me at schools. If the sports team is the Tigers, the boys are the Tigers, and the girls have to be qualified as Lady Tigers. Why can't they just be Tigers too?


A friend of mine calls his daughter "the Beast" as a term of endearment, and got so many comments from his inlaws that it wasn't an appropriate nickname for a little girl. They suggested replacing it with bunny rabbit. I mean, its not like he's calling her "Wild Stallion" or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:44 pm 
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It's not the name. It's that the boys represent the school. The girls are just tacked on as an afterthought.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:09 pm 
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I just think its funny that some animals represent a gender for us, even though the same name can be used for both males and females of the species. So you're okay calling a little girl a bunny or a kitten. But you can't call women mustangs, tigers, or bears. And you can't call men wolverines. Unless you're talking about the X-men, because adamantium claws are manly (hence named after Adam and containing the word "man").

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:26 pm 
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My Dad has always called me Dragon.

Some of my female friends have been challenging my feminism through sharing memes that label other women as sluts or make women out to be sexually available at all times.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Lots of schools use wolverines. At least 3 in this general area do, one per district.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:11 pm 
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I really like when my dad calls me "bud" or "buddy," just because I'm a girl doesn't mean that I haven't been his little buddy (but I feel like bud is usually associated with boy children).

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:17 pm 
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Desdemona wrote:
SassyOh wrote:
I keep meeting people, mostly women, who claim to be pro-choice but support ideas like criminalizing miscarriage because they think doing so will 'punish' women who use drugs during pregnancy (?!?!?!?) I've stopped trying to make sense of the things they say. One of them once told me, "I'm pro-choice, but I also think that after you get a certain amount of abortions you should be sterilized."
Right. They get a choice between having an unwanted child or involuntary sterilization! So many options!


And the 'certain number'? Two, regardless of the reason, because after the first abortion, "she shouldn't be dumb enough to get pregnant again." Ariann is spot-on; these attitudes are a product of our misogynist culture.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:31 pm 
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I also wanted to add that I hope I didn't minimize anything about the selective reduction conversation by my novel comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:09 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
Lots of schools use wolverines. At least 3 in this general area do, one per district.


My very goofy sense of humor is not translating well on the internet tonight. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:51 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
This is something that always irritates me at schools. If the sports team is the Tigers, the boys are the Tigers, and the girls have to be qualified as Lady Tigers. Why can't they just be Tigers too?


Yeah I was actually complaining about this a few days ago to one of my friends about the "Lady Hornets" being unfair and when you think about it too much it kinda squicks you out. What the fork is a lady hornet? Some human-hornet hybrid? And isn't that terrifying enough? Can't the female teams just be called that?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:22 am 
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Fee wrote:
lavawitch wrote:
This is something that always irritates me at schools. If the sports team is the Tigers, the boys are the Tigers, and the girls have to be qualified as Lady Tigers. Why can't they just be Tigers too?


Yeah I was actually complaining about this a few days ago to one of my friends about the "Lady Hornets" being unfair and when you think about it too much it kinda squicks you out. What the fork is a lady hornet? Some human-hornet hybrid? And isn't that terrifying enough? Can't the female teams just be called that?
A hornet that would never use her fish fork for the salad, or be seen wearing white after Labor Day?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:00 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
I just think its funny that some animals represent a gender for us, even though the same name can be used for both males and females of the species. So you're okay calling a little girl a bunny or a kitten. But you can't call women mustangs, tigers, or bears. And you can't call men wolverines. Unless you're talking about the X-men, because adamantium claws are manly (hence named after Adam and containing the word "man").


My mom used to call me "little prawn", which I think is hilarious, but she got a lot of flak for it.

The other day I was listening to a feminist podcast on children's literature, and the consequences of illustrating stories with anthropomorphized animals instead of humans. Because you can't tell a bear's gender from the way they look, for example, it means that kids gender clothing and activities very strongly. They had some interesting examples - in their tests, a bear in an apron is always read as female, regardless of what it was doing. And a bear sitting in an armchair was always read as male! Even if it was knitting or doing childcare.

ETA: this is the show (in French) if anyone is interested. http://www.radiorageuses.net/spip.php?article258


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:22 pm 
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aelle, that's really interesting. I imagine that unclothed animals would generally be read as male.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:17 pm 
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That's why they stick a giant pink bow on the naked bear's head.

Which reminds me of a southern thing (I think it's a southern thing) where all baby girls must have a giant bow or flower headband if its not obviously a girl.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:56 pm 
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So.... My 16year old went to a thing over the weekend that I found really problematic. It was a coming of age ceremony that was really appropriative (and oh boy did we talk about it).
Tonight was the "reintegration ceremony". Where they talked a whole lot about how the males that participated stood in their power and all that. But that the girls were flowering. What the frack does that even mean? Barf.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:53 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
That's why they stick a giant pink bow on the naked bear's head.

Which reminds me of a southern thing (I think it's a southern thing) where all baby girls must have a giant bow or flower headband if its not obviously a girl.


Not a southern thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:58 pm 
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I need to get a headband with trucks on it for Leela.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:35 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
This is something that always irritates me at schools. If the sports team is the Tigers, the boys are the Tigers, and the girls have to be qualified as Lady Tigers. Why can't they just be Tigers too?

This bothers me too. Similarly, I dislike how images demonstrating human evolution always feature men as the evolved form (and they're always white!). Men are the default and women are weird special extras, I guess!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:15 am 
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kfad wrote:
So.... My 16year old went to a thing over the weekend that I found really problematic. It was a coming of age ceremony that was really appropriative (and oh boy did we talk about it).
Tonight was the "reintegration ceremony". Where they talked a whole lot about how the males that participated stood in their power and all that. But that the girls were flowering. What the frack does that even mean? Barf.
I'm sorry, but...what? What exactly the hell was this thing??

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