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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:39 pm 
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I use that phrase. I had no idea it was offensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:15 pm 
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I don't understand how the phrase implies anything but having a crush on a girl. Like, "I have such a girl crush on you." How do you assume that means just friends? I mean, I get that it's a phrase that most people just get but the words logically imply that as a girl, I have a crush on another girl. So I get why it's offensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:26 pm 
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This statement sums up a bit how I feel about it:

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/my%20feelings%20let%20me%20show%20you%20them wrote:
For me, “girl crush” is an offensive term in the way that “no homo” and “bromance” are also offensive terms; if you’re offended or repulsed by people thinking that you’re gay (and feel the desperate need to correct them), you are therefore implying that being gay is something that is bad or wrong. And that’s offensive.


As far as I'm concerned, if you admire someone, just say that you admire them! There's no need to appropriate sexual language if your feelings are non-sexual towards a member of the same sex.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:28 pm 
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So what phrase would you use if you're crushing on someone (you think they're just an awesome person and think about them a lot, more than admiration) but don't have a romantic interest in them? A platonic crush?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:36 pm 
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couroupita wrote:
So what phrase would you use if you're crushing on someone (you think they're just an awesome person and think about them a lot, more than admiration) but don't have a romantic interest in them? A platonic crush?

"Squish" seems to be the preferred term in the asexual community. I like it, I'd just like to clarify whether it's a free-use term or if a heterosexual lady like me shouldn't appropriate it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:41 pm 
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couroupita wrote:
So what phrase would you use if you're crushing on someone (you think they're just an awesome person and think about them a lot, more than admiration) but don't have a romantic interest in them? A platonic crush?


A crush is really definitely a sexual thing!

There's so many non-sexual words you could use instead to describe anyone (not just other women) that you think are pretty awesome: admire, adore, esteem, idolise, respect, revere, cherish, worship ... Get your thesaurus out ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
I don't understand how the phrase implies anything but having a crush on a girl. Like, "I have such a girl crush on you." How do you assume that means just friends? I mean, I get that it's a phrase that most people just get but the words logically imply that as a girl, I have a crush on another girl. So I get why it's offensive.


I've used "girl crush" to describe my very sexual romantic attraction to women, but I stopped once I realized that it was basically a woman's version of "no homo" so people didn't understand what I was saying. There are exceptions but that seems to be the most popular use of it. Its pretty similar to the "man crush" from Seinfeld.

We could bring back the word pash! Or passionate friendship or romantic friendship.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:49 pm 
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A crush is a sexual thing? I mean, I'd say I have a crush on certain men (and women) but have no sexual interest.

And as far as bromance, I always thought of it in a manner of various ways but obvious friendship love but also chemistry but not in a sexual way. I never thought it was a way to say 'no homo'. I've had similar friendships with women in the past but it goes beyond friendship.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:01 pm 
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I don't disagree about the girl crush thing being dumb, but I also don't think all crushes are necessarily sexual. And other words don't exactly work for the feeling which I think is just that saying "I idolize you" sounds either kiss asparagus, fake, or really creepy and the feeling of it is more "there's something about you that makes me want to be like you in one or many ways" and/or "I wouldn't mind if we were best friends"

I just say crush, though, as a general term and don't preface it because if you're skeeved out by the possibility that it might be romantic then you probably aren't worthy of my crushing.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:03 pm 
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"Hey, I think you're awesome."
"You're super cool."
"I love hanging out with you."
"You're one of my best friends."
"You're the bees knees!"
Just a few of the ways one girl can tell another girl she thinks she's awesome as a friend. A crush is definitely a romantic thing, if not a sexual thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:06 pm 
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Fee wrote:
I just say crush, though, as a general term and don't preface it because if you're skeeved out by the possibility that it might be romantic then you probably aren't worthy of my crushing.

I wouldn't mind the term "crush" alone to describe loving a friend but the addition of "girl" is the bothersome part. Or rather, the addition of having to go out of my way to make sure everyone knows that "Hey, I'm totally not attracted to girls or anything." So pretty much, I agree with what you said.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:03 pm 
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I say "friend crush". It would never occur to me to use gender in that instance.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:20 pm 
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choirqueer wrote:
I say "friend crush". It would never occur to me to use gender in that instance.

See, that makes so much more sense!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:23 pm 
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I've used both "friend crush" and "girl crush" before, not realizing the latter could be construed as offensive. You learn something new everyday!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
Fee wrote:
I just say crush, though, as a general term and don't preface it because if you're skeeved out by the possibility that it might be romantic then you probably aren't worthy of my crushing.

I wouldn't mind the term "crush" alone to describe loving a friend but the addition of "girl" is the bothersome part. Or rather, the addition of having to go out of my way to make sure everyone knows that "Hey, I'm totally not attracted to girls or anything." So pretty much, I agree with what you said.


I guess I see it the opposite in that we seem to see a society where it is wrong to show affection for someone of the same gender period. The reality that I believe is without sexual attraction, you can have affection and that is completely normal. I think terms like bromance, girl crush and potentially others seem to normalize it somewhat to say that it is normal to have affection towards someone that belongs to a gender that you aren't sexually attracted to or even if you are, you have a non-sexual attraction to that person. I think Europeans are further ahead of Americans though in this manner and seem to already accept that fact? On some level? And if you said you had a crush on someone then people might ask questions like 'are you gay?' Does that mean you are adverse to the thought? No.

I do think friend crush sounds nice as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
choirqueer wrote:
I say "friend crush". It would never occur to me to use gender in that instance.

See, that makes so much more sense!


Yup, I use friend crush as well, and I don't think there's anything wrong with using crush in that context. I actually think it's a really good way of describing the really intense, excited, happy feelings you can have at the start of a new friendship.

That said, I agree that the term "girl crush" is a lot like "bromance" or whatever as by specifying gender, it really does just seem like a shorthand way of saying "I have a crush on this person but it couldn't possibly be sexual because we're the same gender". Because if one was a woman, and said "I have a crush", then because people assume heterosexuality, the crush must automatically be on a man. Terms like "girl crush" just reinforce that, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:06 pm 
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I have always found the term girls crush to be cringe worthy.

My take on it has always been that it is often used by hetero females in a public forum, never in an alone on one situation, in order to titillate or seem edgy to others - often males. As in, I'm not gay or bisexual, but she is so awesome and sexy I could, perhaps kinda, sorta be persuaded to have sex with her - not really, but now I've put the idea in your brain and don't you now find me so incredibly exciting? It just reminds me of the ditzy teenage girl stereotype of being someone she isn't to get a boy's attention.

I also thought that it might be insulting to women and girls who are lesbian or bisexual. But as a woman I just find the whole self-dumbing-down-attention getting crepe really sort of, well, icky.

But that's just my take, and how I, as a woman over 40 reacts to the term. Probably just a generational thing in my case.

ETA, growing up for me, a crush always meant a sexual infatuation. I had a terrible crush on my husband before we started dating.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:33 pm 
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I wasn't even thinking girl crush could apply to someone you dint know personally. Is that how people use it?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:18 am 
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I have used "girl crush" and "friend crush" synonymously. Not like "it couldn't possibly be sexual because I'm not like that," but because I don't really think "crush" implies a sexual (or even necessarily romantic) attraction. I had a "friend crush" a couple of years ago who was a guy, but it still wasn't sexual or romantic in nature... just one of those rare people you run across whose presence makes everything seem a little better. I guess I wouldn't say "boy crush" because I'm a straight female and that would seem to imply something that isn't there, but I don't know... I think "crush" is sort of a great descriptor for when you're just kind of psyched about someone in a way that doesn't usually happen. Guess I will stick with "friend crush" when the need arises.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:06 am 
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I have used "crush", "friend crush" and "girl crush" but for different phenomena. I have used "crush" for both men and women when the situation felt like there was a hint of flirtation or a frisson of a romantic or sexual tension. I have used "friend crush" for that excited feeling when you're getting to know a new person and there's great platonic chemistry and it's clear you're going to be friends. I have only used "girl crush" in situations where I didn't know the person or the person wasn't real (like a character in a book or movie) and I felt an affinity for them akin to the friend crush. (Actually, the only time I remember using it was in reference to the character C. J. Cregg from the West Wing.)


For the record, I'm also a woman over 40, and when I used the term it was mostly to myself and in no way trying to dumb myself down or "seem edgy to get a boy's attention". It just describes a different situation in my mind than a crush crush. That said, I understand why it would be offensive, so in future, I'll use a different term for the feeling.

(I have a fourth type of crush that I have more often: the "brain crush". It applies to both men and women who I'm not really sexually attracted to but I'm in love with how their brain works.)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:49 am 
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This had been really educational. Clearly my references for the term 'crush' or 'girl crush' and 'friend crush' - which I had not heard before are very much out of date.

My apologies.

What I should have said was, that I am out of touch with current sayings, instead of over 40.

From reading these posts, it appears to me that 'girl crush' simply means a female whom one admires and respects in a platonic manner, or a newly developing friendship with a female that you are clicking with and it's fun and exciting. Or am I still getting it wrong?

I'm sorry, my intention was not to criticize anyone's use of the word. It was my clumsy attempt at explaining why the term made me cringe a little. I have obviously not heard 'girl crush' used in the ways mentioned here. And I'll keep my mouth shut on the topic, because I guess I'm misunderstanding the topic entirely.

Again, I'm sorry if my thoughts on the subject were insulting or critical in anyway. It was just my emotional and very stupid reaction to a term I did not understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:05 am 
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Hi Jean! I don't think you said anything offensive, its just fun to kick the tires of a new idea, you know?

I have never really liked the term, and a lot of the posts put into words something that I haven't been able to. My feeling has been that it trivializes the mentoring relationships among women (you can have peer to peer mentoring). One of the biggest keys to women being successful is to have models that inspire them. And I never realized it was like "no homo," I thought it was the opposite, it introduces a sexual element to a same sex platonic relationship.

I think it would be weird to say "I have a girl crush on Ruth Bader Ginsburg." I think she is amazing and incredible, and I would love to sit down and have tea with her and would probably babble like an idiot around her, but she isn't a girl crush. I feel like that term trivializes the amazingness of her and reduces her to a sexual being, where for me she is an incredible jurist and a powerful and thoughtful woman, whom I would like to emulate not copulate with.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:14 am 
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I don't think you have anything to apologise for, Jean! I was just giving my own take on the term, but that in no way invalidates your feelings of criginess (new word!) about it! I have to remember that my matter-of-factness can sometimes come across as contrarian or pissy, which is not my intention! I actually enjoy a good rant, so please don't feel like you can't speak your mind! We're all pretty strong willed around here and sometimes tone gets lost on the Internet. My apologies if my tone came across as angry or offended.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:46 am 
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lepelaar wrote:
I have used "crush", "friend crush" and "girl crush" but for different phenomena. I have used "crush" for both men and women when the situation felt like there was a hint of flirtation or a frisson of a romantic or sexual tension. I have used "friend crush" for that excited feeling when you're getting to know a new person and there's great platonic chemistry and it's clear you're going to be friends. I have only used "girl crush" in situations where I didn't know the person or the person wasn't real (like a character in a book or movie) and I felt an affinity for them akin to the friend crush. (Actually, the only time I remember using it was in reference to the character C. J. Cregg from the West Wing.)


For the record, I'm also a woman over 40, and when I used the term it was mostly to myself and in no way trying to dumb myself down or "seem edgy to get a boy's attention". It just describes a different situation in my mind than a crush crush. That said, I understand why it would be offensive, so in future, I'll use a different term for the feeling.

(I have a fourth type of crush that I have more often: the "brain crush". It applies to both men and women who I'm not really sexually attracted to but I'm in love with how their brain works.)


This is me exactly, even down to the object of the crush!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:50 am 
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Thank you Tofulish and Lepelaar for your assurance. I really felt that I had unwittingly crossed a line and put my foot very wrong. Thank you for reassuring me that I had not.
I was never very good at running with the cool kids. I'll continue to watch and hopefully learn how it all works.

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