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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:34 pm 
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I don't even get it.

Oh, I had a point I missed before I derailed myself.

A lot of girls are rightly upset about the dress code restrictions on bra straps. My school allows tank tops, but bra straps must be completely covered or it's a violation. Now, I've never heard of anybody actually enforcing this rule (frankly, I'd worry about any teacher who noticed an "infraction"), but the fact that it exists is bad enough. The girls working on the protest seem to be getting some small traction. We will see! There definitely has been attention lately to the fact that way more than half the rules are aimed at girls and how that isn't fair.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:48 pm 
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I think it's a fantastic step towards smashing the glass ceiling. Now that the hands-free purse has finally been invented (!?!?!), I am free to apply mascara and make a sandwich for my boyfriend at the same time!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:21 pm 
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I'm a bit surprised no one has posted about this yet. Proof that it doesn't matter how famous or rich or powerful a woman may be, her husband can still choke her in a crowded restaurant and not be arrested, or even interrupted. His excuse - "I held Nigella's neck repeatedly while attempting to emphasize my point. There was no grip, it was a playful tiff" (?!) - only reinforces the idea that this kind of thing is okay between couples, and no one else's business. If this is what passes for playful in a posh restaurant filled with patrons and lurking paparazzi (none of whom intervened, BTW), one shudders to think what happens in private.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... n-pictures

And then, just to put the objectification frosting on the misogynist cake, charming "people" like professional bigot and all-round waste of space Nick Griffin tweet comments like the following.

https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/stat ... 2110102528

Seriously?? We've come a long way, baby! Except that no, apparently we haven't.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:44 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
I "borrowed" a J.Crew catalogue a co-worker got in today's mail to take a sneak peak (I got some really great shorts there last year and I just want to see if they're going to make them again this year, okay?).

I just... I don't even have words to respond to this:

Image



At least it's ice cream, and not salad? I don't know. I don't even know what a hands-free purse is supposed to be or how it's different from other purses.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Desdemona wrote:
Charles Saatchi's bullshiitake


His behavior is absolutely forking disgusting. Not the first time he's done something like this to her in public.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:08 pm 
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8ball wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
Charles Saatchi's bullshiitake


His behavior is absolutely forking disgusting. Not the first time he's done something like this to her in public.


I thought about posting it, but I... I don't know. It's so upsetting. I don't understand why no one was like, hey, everything OK here? It felt very voyeuristic seeing those photos. Not that I think she should be ashamed, but I don't know.

Sorry if I'm not making much sense. It just makes me incredibly sad.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:12 pm 
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8ball wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
Charles Saatchi's bullshiitake


His behavior is absolutely forking disgusting. Not the first time he's done something like this to her in public.
Right?? This one was taken months ago; once again in broad daylight in front of what amounts to an audience. I mean - who does that to another person? It's so belittling and disrespectful. The look on her face in the more recent photos is really upsetting, and now he says everything's fine and he "sent her away." The fork?

Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler tagged as requested : Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Desdemona wrote:
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/346606372110102528

Seriously?? We've come a long way, baby! Except that no, apparently we haven't.

Ugh, stay classy.

I saw those pictures and I don't understand at all how he expects anyone to believe he wasn't choking her. Even his excuse doesn't sound okay! There were even pictures of her leaving in tears.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:42 pm 
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On the dark, dire situation for women in academia. Though the title focuses on women with children, the article aptly points out that the profession is terrible for all women:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... ingle.html

"The pressure cooker years as an assistant professor leading up to tenure usually number four to seven years. ... It is well established that women are less likely to be awarded tenure than men. There is a baby penalty, especially strong in the sciences—but women without children also receive tenure at a lower rate than men. There are other factors than children that cause women to fail at this critical juncture. The women who do make it often do so alone. Women professors have higher divorce rates, lower marriage rates, and fewer children than male professors. Among tenured faculty, 70 percent of men are married with children compared with 44 percent of women."

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:51 am 
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Saatchi has been cautioned now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22947383 But that is still not enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:41 am 
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I saw that (re: Nigella) and thought it was so disturbing. The look on her face doesn't indicate a playful tiff. And even if you're being playful, you don't grab someone by the neck in public*. I'm just glad she took the kids and left. I hope she doesn't go back to him.

I posted this Jezebel article on FB, as did Vantine, I think. It's just forking awful.

*Consenting adults can do whatever they want in private, obvs. Of course, judging by the way people reacted (or failed to), I guess you could get away with it in public if it's consenting (or not).

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:29 am 
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I can't imagine any circumstances that don't make him an abusive crasshole here. it's shameful, but probably not surprising, that nobody tried to intervene. I mean this isn't a situation that could be misconstrued by a bystander. Her body language in one of the photos I saw is painful to see.

Nigella is awesome--she doesn't need this crasshole, who at best seriously embarrassed and tormented her in public. Nobody does. He said they were arguing about the kids. That's an even bigger what the fizzle. How does a discussion about the kids lead to "fake strangling" your wife?

It's always easy to say "I wouldn't put up with that" from the outside.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:33 am 
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Wow. That...fashion spread. That is easily up there with the worst French Vogue has ever done and that Rodarte/MAC Juarez "inspired" by the romantic women raped and murdered while walking to work in sweatshop factories. Rodarte still wins first place.

I'd really love to know what the thought processes were here that led to multiple people on an editorial staff thinking this was a great idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:45 am 
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LW, bingo! That's the thing. I can totally forgive something if it's one person doing creative work, and they get so bound up in "edgyness" they make choices that are gross. It's unfortunate, but it happens. To get a whole magazine spread like this, you need an editorial team that thinks this is a good idea. One of an editor's big jobs is making sure stupid shiitake does not happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:49 am 
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That's exactly it. And this is also what gets me the most about Rodarte. They took their road trip, got inspired or whatever, but then failed to step back and rexamine their work in any kind of context. That just makes it soulless and shallow.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:35 am 
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Holy shiitake, that fashion spread is so awful. How did a bunch of people think this was a good idea?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Uh... context? Are we talking about the Vice magazine spread "featuring" female authors who (mostly) committed suicide?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Uh... context? Are we talking about the Vice magazine spread "featuring" female authors who (mostly) committed suicide?
I think so! For anyone who hasn't seen it: you might want to sit down and/or find something to punch.

http://jezebel.com/vice-published-a-fas ... -513888861

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:36 pm 
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The link to it is upthread, as well. I guess they've taken it down now but Jezebel still has the pictures and stuff up.

eta: The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science FB page just posted a pro-feminist post about crushing sexism and posted a link to the everydaysexism video.....and then I read the comments....

It's also so sad to see women who don't understand what feminism is. If I see one more "it's sexism, not feminism" comment from a woman I'm going to scream.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:17 pm 
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I had read a couple of articles about the Vice spread this morning but had only seen the Sylvia Plath photo until I saw Jezebel's coverage of it. Reading about it, I thought "that's forked up," but seeing all of the photos together was actually sickening.

I guess I'm just feeling extra-touchy about suicide today. I got in a fight on FB about the fact that trains were delayed this morning yet again because someone jumped in front of one. It's been happening a lot lately, and whenever I hear about it I think about a guy I knew who drives the circle line train on the London Tube, and what he told me about 'jumpers.' The closest he ever got was when a drunk man nearly tottered in front of his train as he was pulling into a station, but he knows several colleagues who have been unwilling recruits into someone's suicide and it has traumatized them for life. It's just such an awful situation- for the person who was in such a horrible place that they had to end their lives, for the loved ones they leave behind, and for the people who are destroyed by witnessing or participating in it. The FB fight was over the fact that most people only seemed to feel annoyance that this had made them late to work. I got labeled a "concern troll."

Sorry to derail. I guess my long and winding point is that suicide is dead serious and it's just shameful and disappointing when people try to commodify or glamorize it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:07 pm 
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This bears repeating

Quote:
it's perhaps especially distressing that some of the people Vice depicts died very recently — Chang in just 2004 — leaving still-living loved ones behind. These weren't fictional characters; these were real women, who lived and struggled and died, and to treat their lowest moments as fodder for a silly fashion spread is shameful and sad.


And Erika, I was once on a train in Germany that got stuck because someone had committed suicide on the tracks, and the ticket collector came in and ranted about how annoying it was. Turned out that woman sitting next to me had lost her son the year before. He had a history of depression and had thrown himself in front of a train. I felt so terrible for her, and we talked for the rest of the journey, and it has always stuck with me. You have no idea how what you say may affect people, or who may have lost a loved one.

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Last edited by Tofulish on Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Oh wow. I didn't think it could get worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
This bears repeating

Quote:
it's perhaps especially distressing that some of the people Vice depicts died very recently — Chang in just 2004 — leaving still-living loved ones behind. These weren't fictional characters; these were real women, who lived and struggled and died, and to treat their lowest moments as fodder for a silly fashion spread is shameful and sad.



This part got to me as well, even in finding the photo shoot offensive I hadn't stopped to consider that there are living survivors out there who would see this.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Tofulish wrote:
This bears repeating

Quote:
it's perhaps especially distressing that some of the people Vice depicts died very recently — Chang in just 2004 — leaving still-living loved ones behind. These weren't fictional characters; these were real women, who lived and struggled and died, and to treat their lowest moments as fodder for a silly fashion spread is shameful and sad.



This part got to me as well, even in finding the photo shoot offensive I hadn't stopped to consider that there are living survivors out there who would see this.
It's reprehensible. I was thinking about Sylvia Plath's daughter (her only surviving child; the son committed suicide in 2009), and how stupid, insensitive, shallow shiitake like this must make her feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:52 am 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
I had read a couple of articles about the Vice spread this morning but had only seen the Sylvia Plath photo until I saw Jezebel's coverage of it. Reading about it, I thought "that's forked up," but seeing all of the photos together was actually sickening.

I guess I'm just feeling extra-touchy about suicide today. I got in a fight on FB about the fact that trains were delayed this morning yet again because someone jumped in front of one. It's been happening a lot lately, and whenever I hear about it I think about a guy I knew who drives the circle line train on the London Tube, and what he told me about 'jumpers.' The closest he ever got was when a drunk man nearly tottered in front of his train as he was pulling into a station, but he knows several colleagues who have been unwilling recruits into someone's suicide and it has traumatized them for life. It's just such an awful situation- for the person who was in such a horrible place that they had to end their lives, for the loved ones they leave behind, and for the people who are destroyed by witnessing or participating in it. The FB fight was over the fact that most people only seemed to feel annoyance that this had made them late to work. I got labeled a "concern troll."

Sorry to derail. I guess my long and winding point is that suicide is dead serious and it's just shameful and disappointing when people try to commodify or glamorize it.


I 10000000% agree with this. I work in Central London and I have the same argument every time it happens where people start bisqueing about being late and I end up saying "Yeah but you know what, someone hated their life so much that they ended it today, ok"

Mat.

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