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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:07 am 
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ndpittman wrote:
8ball wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
Charles Saatchi's bullshiitake


His behavior is absolutely forking disgusting. Not the first time he's done something like this to her in public.


I thought about posting it, but I... I don't know. It's so upsetting. I don't understand why no one was like, hey, everything OK here? It felt very voyeuristic seeing those photos. Not that I think she should be ashamed, but I don't know.

Sorry if I'm not making much sense. It just makes me incredibly sad.

It can be dangerous to intervene directly in family violence. It's also very, very likely that she would have said that everything was fine and would have left holding her hand. The abusive dynamics in their relationship likely started before they married ten years ago. It will take a lot of help to get her past ten years of having her self-worth destroyed.

It usually takes many attempts and aborted efforts before someone leaves their abusive partner.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:26 am 
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Vantine wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
Charles Saatchi's bullshiitake

It can be dangerous to intervene directly in family violence. It's also very, very likely that she would have said that everything was fine and would have left holding his hand.
I'm sure you're right; the urge to save face is a strong one, and if there is or has been abuse there's also the need to smooth things down and keep the situation from escalating.
Vantine wrote:
The abusive dynamics in their relationship likely started before they married ten years ago. It will take a lot of help to get her past ten years of having her self-worth destroyed.

It usually takes many attempts and aborted efforts before someone leaves their abusive partner.
I think her silence (especially now that he's been cautioned, yet has yet to admit to any wrongdoing) speaks volumes. I've been thinking how awful it must be to find yourself in a situation like that with the added stress of knowing people are looking, taking photos, and will be discussing your business...whether she likes it or not, she'll have to issue some sort of statement. The whole "from domestic goddess to domestic abuse victim" thing is too compelling a narrative; there's no way the press is going to just let this story go. I just hope she can get past what must be a very strong urge to protect her reputation and "brand" to do what is best for herself and her kids.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:53 am 
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Just read a pretty transphobic comment on Uproxx, "Did your brother finally start watching the show or does he still have a vagina?

Edit: not that having a vagina is a bad thing. It just needs to be with the appropriate person."

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:52 am 
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Hahaha. Hahahahahaha. I love how they edited it as if it makes them less of a crasshole.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:17 pm 
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James Taranto has come out with a Wall Street Journal editorial on military sexual assault that would make a great best-practices manual on how to be a rape apologist. Its a useful read, because it reminds us of how entrenched rape culture is and how willing people are to twist the facts to protect their privilege.
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/18/five_ea ... apologist/

TL;DR: Its all about the War on Men. Like the "War on Christmas" it feels de rigueur for privileged groups to insist that no, in fact, they are the victims of the horrible, marginalized groups who are insisting on very basic rights.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Oh Serena Williams, your interview and subsequent apologies are like rape apologist bingo.
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/19/serenas ... ing_wrong/

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:34 pm 
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UGH SERENA SHUT UP

I accidentally typed 'shiitake up' but I think that applies, too. whatever it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:39 pm 
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I really like this interview that Jezebel did with one of the models from the suicide fashion spread. They interviewed her about the entire thing and she was very upfront and honest about everything. http://jezebel.com/model-from-vice-suic ... -514323121

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Roseanne is definitely challenging my feminism. She has been going bonkers on Lindy West (via twitter) almost non-stop for weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Do I even want to know?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:13 pm 
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http://jezebel.com/why-is-roseanne-call ... -511345557

And she literally has not stopped since.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:19 pm 
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................Jezebel is pro-rape and racist? Is that really what I just read from her?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:09 pm 
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Jezebel is racist as a mother hubbard, to be fair.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:48 pm 
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How so?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:46 am 
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Remember this guy?

lepelaar wrote:
A recently-added FB friend (a guy I knew in high school) keeps posting about "the Jills" and it took me a while to realize he was talking about the Buffalo Bills and thinks it's funny to refer to them as the Jills because they (apparently)* play badly. Hahaha... let's insult our local team by calling them by the name of their cheerleading squad. Ha ha ha... so funny.

*I say "apparently" because I don't give two shiitakes about football and have no idea which teams suck.

(Add this to his post about how sorry he is that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was caught because now the American taxpayer was going to have to pay for his defence, and how he likes Europe "except for the politics for the most part", and I think he's heading for either a hiding or a defriending pretty darned soon.)


Yeah, well, he just posted this on FB - "For the first time ever......I actually agree with those asshats........." - in response to this article: Westboro Baptist Church Plans To Picket Taylor Swift Concert, Calls Her A 'hors d'oeuvre'.

Unfriended.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:04 am 
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lepelaar wrote:



Yeah, well, he just posted this on FB - "For the first time ever......I actually agree with those asshats........." - in response to this article: Westboro Baptist Church Plans To Picket Taylor Swift Concert, Calls Her A 'hors d'oeuvre'.

Unfriended.


what ..."Hors d'oeuv..." ah ok.

I never dare to unfriend people for being macho crassholes ... but anyway they do it themselves eventually :) (I'm such an extremist feminist, you know)

Now, priviledges:
http://xyfeminist.wordpress.com/the-mal ... lege-list/
Wich is your favourite?


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:21 pm 
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Emilie wrote:
Now, priviledges:
http://xyfeminist.wordpress.com/the-mal ... lege-list/
Wich is your favourite?


I couldn't get past the one about prostitution being the same as rape. And pornography necessarily being anti-woman.
Certainly both of these things can be destructive for the women involved in them (and it's not only women involved - but that's an aside), but blanket statements like that completely deny sex workers any agency. I know that there are plenty of sex workers out there who would strongly disagree with the assertion that their profession is "the institutionalization of rape through a global network of physical and economic violence."

So, I guess that website challenges my feminism?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:32 am 
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yes, it's rather the very existence of prostitution that is to be questionned in tha case (as due to some kind of a global sex priviledge scientifically described as "men have needs")

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:13 am 
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I'm not sure that I totally agree. I guess if we wanted to totally abolish capitalism, the exchange of sex for money would obviously go. And I agree that the sentiment about "men have needs" is pretty disgusting, and definitely plays into rape culture. But I think that suggesting that there's something inherently wrong with prostitution, in and of itself, is problematic. I don't think it's always a good situation, but I don't think it's always a bad situation, either, and doesn't necessarily have to play into the notion that men are entitled to sex. (I think I read somewhere that paying for sex kind of does the opposite of teaching men that they are entitled to sex - they don't get it til they've paid - but I think that could be too simplistic as well).

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:37 am 
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gunk wrote:
I'm not sure that I totally agree. I guess if we wanted to totally abolish capitalism, the exchange of sex for money would obviously go. And I agree that the sentiment about "men have needs" is pretty disgusting, and definitely plays into rape culture. But I think that suggesting that there's something inherently wrong with prostitution, in and of itself, is problematic. I don't think it's always a good situation, but I don't think it's always a bad situation, either, and doesn't necessarily have to play into the notion that men are entitled to sex. (I think I read somewhere that paying for sex kind of does the opposite of teaching men that they are entitled to sex - they don't get it til they've paid - but I think that could be too simplistic as well).
To my mind the issue is really about consent - and by that I mean actual, informed, adult consent, not coercion or a lack of other options, whether real or perceived - and some form of proper standardization, regulation, etc. that would ensure sex workers are compensated fairly, enjoy certain rights and protections, and receive benefits as other types of workers do. As long as people who work in this industry (which is not going away, no matter who wishes it might) are relegated to the sort of shady/shameful underworld status they historically have been, the easier it is for them to be misrepresented, misunderstood, mistreated, and/or exploited. Bring the business - and it is a business - into the light, provide health care, unions, etc., and many objections people raise to validate their disapproval of prostitution would lose much of their rhetorical force.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:35 am 
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Has anyone read "Unrepentant hors d'oeuvre"? I thought it was interesting, although her situation probably isn't the norm.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Desdemona wrote:
To my mind the issue is really about consent - and by that I mean actual, informed, adult consent, not coercion or a lack of other options, whether real or perceived - and some form of proper standardization, regulation, etc. that would ensure sex workers are compensated fairly, enjoy certain rights and protections, and receive benefits as other types of workers do. As long as people who work in this industry (which is not going away, no matter who wishes it might) are relegated to the sort of shady/shameful underworld status they historically have been, the easier it is for them to be misrepresented, misunderstood, mistreated, and/or exploited. Bring the business - and it is a business - into the light, provide health care, unions, etc., and many objections people raise to validate their disapproval of prostitution would lose much of their rhetorical force.


I agree! Informed consent is really important, and standardisation could definitely improve rights for workers. I know some workers don't necessarily want sex work to be completely legalised (I think the argument is about the difference between decriminalisation and legalisation) as it could then have negative impacts on them, but I can't really remember the arguments they put forth about that. (A bit useless of me!)
That said, in Victoria, Australia (and some other states?), there are legal brothels, advocacy organisations, and collective organising around sex work. So hopefully we're headed in the right direction there.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:46 am 
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Shout out to the guy who was all up on me and making sexual comments while I was trying to watch bands and celebrate Canada day. I felt really unsafe and I cried in my car.

Shout out to me for being passive and not reacting the way I wish I had. Not only do I get to feel really gross that this happened, but I also get to be mad at myself for not publicly shaming him.

Happy forking Canada day.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:57 am 
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gunk wrote:
Emilie wrote:
Now, priviledges:
http://xyfeminist.wordpress.com/the-mal ... lege-list/
Wich is your favourite?


I couldn't get past the one about prostitution being the same as rape. And pornography necessarily being anti-woman.
Certainly both of these things can be destructive for the women involved in them (and it's not only women involved - but that's an aside), but blanket statements like that completely deny sex workers any agency. I know that there are plenty of sex workers out there who would strongly disagree with the assertion that their profession is "the institutionalization of rape through a global network of physical and economic violence."

So, I guess that website challenges my feminism?


I've been reading about the topic, and while I don't have strong personal opinions about the "right" way to apprehend prostitution, it seems clearly problematic to me when white, middle class women (or men!) who have access to safety nets and other employment opportunities speak over -and therefore effectively silence- sex workers.

Emilie, if you are interested in the topic you should look for a blog called Melange Instable (I can't google it cause I'm at work). The author is a French sex worker with very insightful, very nuanced views on the topic, especially on the current prostitution abolition vs. regulation debate in French feminist circles. I've been really enjoying reading her stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:16 am 
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Thanks! Yes I've discovered it a few days ago (an article about "is it a job?"; I found her conclusions interesting) I have to read more of this blog; also I assume you know "Les questions composent?"

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