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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:30 pm 
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First Nations women being trafficked and no one cares. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-b ... tates.html

Its all anecdotal, but I hope that they can get funds to study the phenomenon and find a way to give people better options and more safety.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:28 am 
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Another high profile gang rape in India. This time the victim is a 23-yr-old photojournalist who was on assignment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-23806871

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:31 am 
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I just read an article about the gangrape. So sad, angering, terrifying and frustrating.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:23 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
First Nations women being trafficked and no one cares. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-b ... tates.html

Its all anecdotal, but I hope that they can get funds to study the phenomenon and find a way to give people better options and more safety.


I would rather they use the money to work against poverty and substance abuse, since those issues are already known and fighting them would fight sex trafficking, and they should be addressed whether or not the anecdotal evidence is substantiated.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:09 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
First Nations women being trafficked and no one cares. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-b ... tates.html

Its all anecdotal, but I hope that they can get funds to study the phenomenon and find a way to give people better options and more safety.


I would rather they use the money to work against poverty and substance abuse, since those issues are already known and fighting them would fight sex trafficking, and they should be addressed whether or not the anecdotal evidence is substantiated.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:51 pm 
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blondiefk wrote:
Tofulish wrote:
First Nations women being trafficked and no one cares. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-b ... tates.html

Its all anecdotal, but I hope that they can get funds to study the phenomenon and find a way to give people better options and more safety.


I would rather they use the money to work against poverty and substance abuse, since those issues are already known and fighting them would fight sex trafficking, and they should be addressed whether or not the anecdotal evidence is substantiated.


The issue is way more complex than this, its not just poverty and substance abuse but how the First Nations are put in that situation in the first place. Genocide against the First Nations in Canada was not so long ago and the effects are still felt today, and the government is doing everything in its power to sweep it under the rug and cut funding to several organizations like Sisters in Spirit.

In the states its not much better, 80% of sexual assaults against native women are by non-native men (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/27/opini ... .html?_r=0), and only recently with the passing of VAWA can reservation police actually arrest their rapists.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:48 am 
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Not to mention that it is a gendered issue. There have been many lawsuits by first nations people against bodies like the catholic church, provincial governments, etc. for abuse and mistreatment. Those lawsuits, of course, dealt with claims by men and woman, and received a lot of attention and press; systems of inquiry have resulted. It's hardly like that's a perfect or even adequate fix, but that stuff was (is?) in the news a lot and is generally in the Canadian public eye.

The issue of Canadian first nations WOMEN being trafficked is much less covered in the media (unless something has changed since I moved away from the Motherland), and to my knowledge, there have been no class action suits or anything like that brought. Yes, of course it's related to the systemic problems first nations people in Canada face like addiction and poverty, but it's a different issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:37 am 
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Not my point. My point is that I think that the money spent on studies is better used on programs, whatever they might address. Programs that address the issues faced by First Nations women, specifically. I mentioned substance abuse and poverty because the article mentioned them as specific reasons for sex trafficking.

Maybe I'm jaded from seeing so much money going to studies on marginalized populations but the lack of funding or slashing of budgets for programs that actually serve those populations. Or the lack of such programs to begin with.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:07 pm 
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I am trying to formulate a reasoned answer, but may fall short.
I grew up on the Colville Reservation. The problem the Natives had was that money that would come in would be controlled by whites... almost all of the time (until they built the casino). For example, the high school had been built on the reservation to help insure that the Native students would have a stronger voice. Only there are ZERO natives on the school board. And the one time in memory that there was a Native on the board he was run off, because he fought for the Native students.
The problem as I see it is that even if you found the programs they have to be run by the population they will most affect. At the absolute very least you have to fully involve them in the process of decision making. Because, I assure you, tribal life is very different. (At least in the states.) The culture itself has a different world view.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:18 pm 
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blondiefk wrote:
I think that the money spent on studies is better used on programs, whatever they might address.


But part of the reason why people have studies is to figure out what the issues are and how best to structure programs to address them.

That said, I think the proper people to be investigating crimes against Native women and children should be the police. We spent thousands on the manhunt for Hannah Anderson, and rightfully so, because she was the victim of a crime. I wish we could devote the same kind of resources when Native women and children go missing. And of course, there should be programs, Native-run as k-fad points out, that address the systemic issues of poverty and substance/alcohol abuse that make the populations more vulnerable. But there should be two levels to the response - the first the investigation by law enforcement of the ongoing allegation of crimes against these women and second a systemic response to address the conditions that give rise to the crimes. The problem is that neither is occurring.

Thanks Shy Mox, JoPa and kfad for your thoughts!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:42 pm 
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I absolutely agree the organizations should be run by First Nations people, women especially. Ideally there should also be First Nations people deciding on the funding for these programs too.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:35 am 
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I am so tired of the attitude some men have about women in this city in the north of Brazil.

Every single time that I go out alone, and even sometimes when I go out with my Brazilian friends, I get shouted at in the street, with men shouting "gringa!" at me, asking me to have sex with them or similar (both in English and Portuguese), and often in bars men will just come up to me and touch me (as in put their hand on me in a non-sexual place, not as in groping me) without any reason, without me having said anything whatsoever to them or even making eye contact. I've kind of got used to this, and accepted that generally they do leave me alone if I say, "Não obrigada" (no thank you), but this weekend I had a really terrifying experience which has really shaken me up.

I was walking alone to meet my Brazilian friends in the evening just after dark, around 8pm, when a car pulled up alongside me in a street with no one else walking and no other cars around (normally I avoid walking on streets where no one else is around here, but to get where I was going this time I had no other choice but to walk this way), and the car was full of men who rolled the windows down and started shouting, "Assalta! Assalta!" (attack/assault). I was absolutely terrified and had all kinds of triggering stuff going on in my head, but it turned out that it was some kind of "joke" (in quotation marks because it wasn't forking funny) as they all started laughing at me and then drove away.

After this, I think that the next person who tries to tell me that I should take street harassment as a compliment is likely to get quite an earful from me.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:42 am 
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I'm so sorry Imogen. I wonder if non-native/tourist women have a reputation in the area? I mean like when I went to Greece, apparently American women had a reputation for going to Greece for flings with Greek men. So the men took that as an opportunity to touch American women as well as make overt sexual advances. Greece was fun but also kind of creepy. Not that they should be doing that but I can't think of any reason they would treat you like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am 
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Imogen that's horrible and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I just saw my last post didn't post. I realize I misunderstood that article about missing First Nations women. I thought the grad student quoted at the beginning was the one who wanted more funding not an established group. That makes a lot more sense to me now.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:46 am 
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Imogen wrote:

I was walking alone to meet my Brazilian friends in the evening just after dark, around 8pm, when a car pulled up alongside me in a street with no one else walking and no other cars around (normally I avoid walking on streets where no one else is around here, but to get where I was going this time I had no other choice but to walk this way), and the car was full of men who rolled the windows down and started shouting, "Assalta! Assalta!" (attack/assault). I was absolutely terrified and had all kinds of triggering stuff going on in my head, but it turned out that it was some kind of "joke" (in quotation marks because it wasn't forking funny) as they all started laughing at me and then drove away.

That is awful! So sorry that happened to you.

Imogen wrote:
After this, I think that the next person who tries to tell me that I should take street harassment as a compliment is likely to get quite an earful from me.

I feel that way, too. And an earful would definitely be well-deserved.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:34 am 
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Having a difficult morning at the office facing some (what I perceive to be) slut-shaming attitudes around sex work. We have the opportunity to provide some much-needed assistance to a local collective of sex workers on a short term basis and at virtually no cost to us but it is being met with some pretty vehement resistance. I guess solidarity is a luxury after all!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Oh, okay, it's no longer my perception, it's just out-and-out slut-shaming now. This is greatly disappointing.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:06 pm 
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Sex work is such a contentious issue in feminist spaces (I'm not sure what you do Erica) so unfortunately it doesn't surprise me.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:12 pm 
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I am really upset about this. I love my job and my office has always felt like a safe space. I am not a current or former sex worker myself, and I certainly cop to have ambivalent feelings about sex work in the past, but I understand it's far more than a black and white issue. I recognized long ago that my disdain is not for women who dance with their clothes off but for a society wherein that job is a woman's only choice if she wants to earn more money than a man. A major component of my current life, which confirms and solidifies this belief for me, is my friendship with a colleague who, surprise, is a former sex worker and helped form the collective in question. There is someone in my safe space who is openly hostile, phobic, and generally ignorant about sex work, and all these stupid things she is saying, she's basically saying about my friend and our colleague. It really makes me ponder how dedicated I am to working here and that makes me upset because I love. This job.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:55 pm 
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I really hate that. Slut shaming is so not cool.

I went to an introduction week at my new school, and part of that was a 3 day camping trip. Apparently one of the new students, a girl, hooked up with two of the tutors. Which is no big deal. I mean, no one knew or even CARED. Until one of the other tutors decided to tell everyone on the microphone when we went on a boat trip. Whyyyy? At least she got an apology after several students told the person that it was not cool at all. How is it anyone's business but the people who are actually hooking up? She had a fun trip - good for her!


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:06 pm 
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I agree, smoothie. I really hate the attitude i see from both men and women about hooking up. The way people talk about it makes it seem like they were in it for scoring a prize and bragging rights, not even for sexual pleasure. I overhear so much talk like that on the campus shuttle. I really don't care who you stuck your penis in, man, as long as everyone was having a good time.
I actually overheard some high school boys at my summer camp job say there was no reason to go to a party except to score with chicks. Seriously, dude? You don't think hanging out with your friends and having fun are good reasons to go to a party?
It disgusts me that this kind of attitude is so engrained in our culture that kids who aren't even legally adults yet think hooking up is so important to their social standing.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:16 pm 
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I had a friend from high school who thought that if she didn't hook up with a guy that the night was wasted. Which made me and her other female friends kind of insulted, like just hanging out with us wasn't good enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:24 pm 
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A friend of a friend (who i've always known is a scumbag based off of comments he's made on the mutual friend's statuses), who commented on a link about why a 14 year old girl can't consent to sex with a grown man, that he would've consented to sex with his health teacher when he was 14. Followed by a smiley face.

I blocked him because I can't even.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:32 pm 
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I was at work today and asked these two college aged guys if they needed help and they just kept walking by me and said, "Nope!" Then I came around to see them standing in line while the mobile rep (male) was assisting someone who was buying a phone and I asked them if they were just checking out and they looked at me and completely turned from me and started asking the mobile rep questions.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:38 pm 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
I was at work today and asked these two college aged guys if they needed help and they just kept walking by me and said, "Nope!" Then I came around to see them standing in line while the mobile rep (male) was assisting someone who was buying a phone and I asked them if they were just checking out and they looked at me and completely turned from me and started asking the mobile rep questions.


ugh that sounds really annoying! i'm not sure where you work, but i always had the experience of going into electronics or hardware stores and being totally ignored while men around me would be helped. if i brought a boyfriend with me, they'd try to help him. eff that.

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