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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:26 am 
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Chip Strong
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annak wrote:
So I feel very ambivalent. I hate the IDEA of not being able to fix things - that's a big part of why I bought one of the last old macbooks rather than a new retina one. But do I actually want to do car maintenance? shiitake no.


Completely agree, and I think if this was a 'concept car' built around the idea of being easy to keep and maintain rather than one for women, I would be totally on board.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:31 pm 
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torque wrote:
Imogen wrote:
Quote:
On closer inspection one could see that there was no hood, that is, no access panel permitting access to the car’s engine. Engine maintenance required taking out the whole front end of the car body, preferably in some establishment with the required space and equipment. This was not supposed to happen often, as the engine was designed to need an oil change only after 50,000 km (31,000 mi) and to automatically send a radio message to a garage a short time before any required maintenance.


The assumption that women are unwilling or incapable of doing their own vehicle maintenance is just so backwards and insulting.

Insulting as well as missing the fact that most men are also unwilling or incapable. we see it in the shop every day.

That bit drives me crazy. But I've been saying for years that if women designed cars there'd be a spot to put your purse (not including gigantic cars like SUVs). And lo and behold the large storage compartment in this car.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:05 pm 
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torque wrote:
Imogen wrote:
Quote:
On closer inspection one could see that there was no hood, that is, no access panel permitting access to the car’s engine. Engine maintenance required taking out the whole front end of the car body, preferably in some establishment with the required space and equipment. This was not supposed to happen often, as the engine was designed to need an oil change only after 50,000 km (31,000 mi) and to automatically send a radio message to a garage a short time before any required maintenance.


The assumption that women are unwilling or incapable of doing their own vehicle maintenance is just so backwards and insulting.

Insulting as well as missing the fact that most men are also unwilling or incapable. we see it in the shop every day.


No kidding! I took auto shop in high school and while a lot of the knowledge has since been drowned away by beer and cruel Mistress Time, I used to regularly change my own oil. I remember once getting a flat tire and having to call AAA when I couldn't get the lugnuts off (they'd been put on incorrectly with an airgun and misthreaded). The tow truck showed up and the guy was happy I already had the car jacked up and the nuts loosened. He told me many a funny story of showing up to assist Very Important Dudes in their Mercs and Beemers who hadn't even opened their trunks because they didn't even know where the spare tire is kept.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:15 pm 
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I really liked the article about how Vienna is trying to make a city that is more supportive of both genders, by interviewing lots of women and using urban planning to address their concerns (better lighting, broader sidewalks etc). http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commut ... omen/6739/

This car seems similar, it was designed by women for women, and I have to say it sounds pretty good to me!
Quote:
The Volvo YCC ("Your Concept Car") was a concept car presented in 2004 at the Geneva Motor Show with the stated goal of meeting the particular needs of female drivers. In order to do so, Volvo assembled a design team entirely made up of women, some time in the Fall of 2001. It was a major exercise in ergonomics from the perspective of a female driver. Those who were involved during the several stages of the project were: Maria Widell Christiansen, Eva-Lisa Andersson, Elna Holmberg, Maria Uggla, Camilla Palmertz, Cynthia Charwick, Anna Rosén, Lena Ekelund and Tatiana Butovitsch Temm.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:18 pm 
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yesterday i was walking back from the farmers market behind this barefoot dude carrying a pair of shoes. a woman passed him and he turned around and gleefully mimed smacking her backside with the shoes in his hand. she didn't seem to see it, and none of the people at the bus stop nearby seemed to notice or care, but i was aghast. i took a few seconds to figure out what i was going to do until i caught up to him (he was walking pretty slowly) and he stopped and grinned at me in a way that made me feel pretty creeped out. i managed to sputter something akin to "don't do what you did to that girl. just don't." he started saying something about how i don't know what he was actually doing, which i didn't catch because i was trying to get the fork away from him. it sounded like he was not particularly fluent in English and i know it's possible there was essential information i was missing, but my head was swimming and i didn't want to be a coward and say nothing.


unrelated, but something that conjured the same feeling: one of my friends from high school posted this (warning: super-flawed analytical methods) on facebook, saying "I know I might get punched for this, but I kind of agree with this gal. And the video parody encouraging the rape of men as a response to a song about confused flirting is awful and disgusting..."
yeah, like the women who made the Defined Lines video are totally on board with sexual violence against men, and people who watch it might be influenced to start hacking off balls.
also, that picture of Robin Thicke makes me feel like i might lose my lunch.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:46 pm 
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It challenges my feminism when people make comments about me carrying something heavier than my boyfriend. It has nothing to do with gender; he has scoliosis. He's in pain just from sitting in class all day, and lifting and carrying heavy things hurts him more. His mom says stuff ALL THE TIME about this. She knows he has scoliosis, but yet still feels it necessary to say "I expected him to carry that big box of books, and you to take the smaller one."

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
I really liked the article about how Vienna is trying to make a city that is more supportive of both genders, by interviewing lots of women and using urban planning to address their concerns (better lighting, broader sidewalks etc). http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commut ... omen/6739/

This car seems similar, it was designed by women for women, and I have to say it sounds pretty good to me!
Quote:
The Volvo YCC ("Your Concept Car") was a concept car presented in 2004 at the Geneva Motor Show with the stated goal of meeting the particular needs of female drivers. In order to do so, Volvo assembled a design team entirely made up of women, some time in the Fall of 2001. It was a major exercise in ergonomics from the perspective of a female driver. Those who were involved during the several stages of the project were: Maria Widell Christiansen, Eva-Lisa Andersson, Elna Holmberg, Maria Uggla, Camilla Palmertz, Cynthia Charwick, Anna Rosén, Lena Ekelund and Tatiana Butovitsch Temm.


Aw, that would be freaking awesome. I feel like I need a booster seat in most cars and I am average woman height so that is just b.s.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:00 pm 
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annabazoo wrote:
It challenges my feminism when people make comments about me carrying something heavier than my boyfriend. It has nothing to do with gender; he has scoliosis. He's in pain just from sitting in class all day, and lifting and carrying heavy things hurts him more. His mom says stuff ALL THE TIME about this. She knows he has scoliosis, but yet still feels it necessary to say "I expected him to carry that big box of books, and you to take the smaller one."


<3

Dude homie. I hear you. I play piano, work with heavy amplifiers, and am expected to be able to carry this shiitake. I CAN carry that shiitake. I am livid when customers (middle aged/older men) refuse to let me carry it. It's my job. I play piano, crasshole; I routinely carry around really, really heavy equipment. I play guitar, too. I can carry a 40 watt amp twenty feet.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:31 pm 
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A friend of mine posted that "she has crossed from being a girl to being a woman." Because she has decided that she wants a child.

Because that is what makes you a woman. A baby. She is in her late 30s, so its not like she's 15.

My mind is boggled.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:44 am 
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annak wrote:
So I feel very ambivalent. I hate the IDEA of not being able to fix things . . . But do I actually want to do car maintenance? shiitake no.

Yep. When I was in my mid-late teens and early twenties I was fiercely keen to prove I could do anything regardless of my gender. Before I even had access to a car I did a car maintenance course (but because I didn't have access to a car a lot of what we covered didn't stick as I had nothing to practice on). When I finally had a car it was a tatty vintage thing which needed a lot of work to keep it on the road as well as regular stuff like topping up the water and oil during a drive (due to leaks), hoses that regularly came loose etc.

There was great satisfaction when I was at the roadside with the bonnet up and blokes pullied up to ask if I needed any help - and them then realising that, unlike me, they had no idea what to do with a (simple) old car engine! Cars have continued to move on to the point that the majority of people can't do much when a modern car engine goes wrong as many things are sealed and you need diagnostic machines.

Over the years I have gradually accepted that I have no more interest in knitting and cooking than I do in car maintenance - and now that I'm not struggling financially and not driving vintage cars I don't have to do car maintenance! I can still change a tyre but I don't want to and that's something I still struggle to feel okay with, because I still feel like I have a responsibility to disprove every assumption and stereotype about what women can and can't do at every opportunity I have. And it's tiring.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:33 am 
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I was undecided whether to put this here or in then FB awkwardness thread, but although it happened on FB, it's really more a feminist issue.

So. This morning a male friend of mine (who is politically liberal, progressive, and all the usual good stuff) posts this in reaction to then government shutdown/caramel cluster.

Quote:
Mention "Congress" in a sentence and the bar already drops pretty low, but somehow the keep managing to limbo under that sucker. I think it want to see a Clinton/Warren ticket in the next election, it's going to take a couple of moms to clean up this mess.

This gets a number of "likes," but I am seriously annoyed. What does Clinton and Warren being "moms" have to do with this? Does their biological status as mothers trump all their legitimate accomplishments, or the many other characteristics by which they could be identified? Or is it simply axiomatic that moms are expected to and/or are the most experienced, skillful, or whatever, at cleaning up messes? I am sick and tired of seeing educated, intelligent, successful women (in addition to being a "mom," Clinton was Secretary of F*cking State, yo) reduced to what is clearly still considered their primary role within their immediate family. I'm sure both of these women are proud of their children, and of being those children's moms, but the implication that this makes them by definition the best ones suited to clean up a mess made by a bunch of men is pretty insulting. Or maybe they should just go for it and sport frilly aprons and feather dusters as part of their campaign strategy; the sad part is that it would probably work. We've come a long way, baby.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:38 am 
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Desdemona wrote:

Quote:
Mention "Congress" in a sentence and the bar already drops pretty low, but somehow the keep managing to limbo under that sucker. I think it want to see a Clinton/Warren ticket in the next election, it's going to take a couple of moms to clean up this mess.


Yuuuuck. So preposterous.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:51 am 
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Rebekah wrote:
Desdemona wrote:

Quote:
Mention "Congress" in a sentence and the bar already drops pretty low, but somehow the keep managing to limbo under that sucker. I think it want to see a Clinton/Warren ticket in the next election, it's going to take a couple of moms to clean up this mess.


Yuuuuck. So preposterous.
Right? And so insulting/demeaning/patronizing. It actually got worse (because I just can't leave well enough alone), but I think I acquitted myself well.

Read on for more dumbness.

Quote:
Random Mom-Identified Person: As a mom, I agree. We know how to clean shiitake up. Literally, and figuratively.


Quote:
Desdemona: Fine, but is that ALL we know how to do? Is it the most important thing we do? Why is that?? And what makes us more qualified as "moms" to do it than "dads"? I'd say it's pretty noteworthy that no one ever suggested Obama (or any male candidate in the history of the world) was the best person for the job because he's someone's "dad." I know it goes against currently fashionable rhetoric, but there's nothing magical or particularly heroic about being a mother: a child is incubated in the uterus, expelled accordingly, and (optimally) nurtured to adulthood. Cats do it, rats do, even educated bats do it; no big deal. I've done it three times, and the superpowers are still nowhere on the horizon.


Quote:
Original Poster: 1. I always thought you were pretty super. So does Robert, I'll bet.

2. Yes, I think it matters. These two women have managed to do even more than most of their male political peers, and on top of that managed to give birth and raise some decent kids. Ever had anyone point out to you that Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but did it backwards while wearing heels? Kinda similar, in my opinion.

3. When I'm facing a big steaming pile of trouble, my first instinct is to get my mom on the phone. As political gimmicks go, this one could have legs...


Quote:
Random Mom-Identified Person: I would never say that's all a woman can do -- not sure [OP] suggested that, either. But there is something to say for the skill set being a caretaker provides, and in our society more often than not the caretaker is a woman.


Quote:
Original Poster's mom: Yeah!.


Quote:
Desdemona: I never suggested [OP] thinks motherhood is all women are good for; I know he knows better. And I mean no disrespect to that fine institution (I'm a longtime member). BUT. The "reductio ad uterus" approach is offensive because it implicitly denigrates women's other accomplishments by suggesting maternity somehow enhances or even trumps them. If I were Clinton, I'd be insulted by the notion that my status as a "mom" outweighed my substantive qualifications to hold public office (especially when figured as "cleaning up a mess"). It's an inherently flawed proposition that reproduction is a magical source of wisdom. There are an awful lot of dumb mothers out there, and while some of them may be great at "cleaning up shiitake," they'd probably be a dead loss in the Oval Office. By the same token, there are childless/free women with the requisite skills to lead countries, run companies, perform brain surgery, etc., without the benefit of labor and delivery. If Robert thinks I'm pretty super it's because of ME, not because of my obstetrical history; and I certainly hope my kids respect my opinions because I'm an intelligent, well-informed person, not merely because I'm their mother. But whatever. I didn't mean to derail your thread; I guess my second wave feminism is showing! (And for the record, a Clinton/Warren ticket would probably get my vote, but the candidates' reproductive records would have nothing to do with it.)


Quote:
Original Poster: said one accomplishment outweighed the other? That was neither implied nor explicitly stated. Their status as moms is a bonus to their other accomplishments, not a replacement or a detraction. Giving birth doesn't magically give you wisdom--being a MOM does, as long as you are actually a mother raising a child, and not just someone who squirted one out and went on your way. Fathering a child isn't the same as being a dad, either, and I'm a little offended that you're confusing being a mother with the ability to reproduce--in essence, you're the one reducing this to the presence of a uterus, not me.


Quote:
Random Mom-Identified Person: ^^Exactly -- as a feminist myself, I don't see these as mutually exclusive OR inclusive traits -- and if someone were to consider my experience as a mom as part of my overall package, I would be flattered because it's damn hard job that I do well.


Quote:
Desdemona: But lots of women have kids and are "moms" (if by this we mean they care for, love, and support their children), but remain dumb as bricks; what is this "wisdom" that supposedly accompanies the act of changing diapers and feeding someone? My original point was that someone's parental status is - or SHOULD be - irrelevant to their qualifications and/or perceived capacity to perform a job that is completely unrelated to parenting. I would hasten to add that this applies to parents of any gender - isn't being a "dad" a damn hard job? Why is it always about the "moms"? But the fact is that whether a man is more or less suited to occupy a powerful position because he has children is never part of the discourse in the way it is for women. And that is unfair, wrong, and emphatically not feminist.


Anyway, that's where I left it because I got tired of being in an echo chamber filled with the wooly-headed rhetoric of how moms rule! Because knowing how to clean up messes made by men, children, and/or men who behave like children is a special superpower! Graduate degrees and resumes and other personal and professional accomplishments are rendered meaningless by the awesome skills (and unparalleled training for serving others! YAY!) conferred by by magical, mystical Momness!

ETA: Apologies for the length, but I really needed to unload before I had an aneurysm.

GAAAAH.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:24 am 
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Desdemona, I think your decision to drop out of the conversation was a good one. Probably your friend just wanted to crack a joke about how congress members are behaving like children and didn't take the time to think about what else it implied.* And they're now so busy trying to prove that they "didn't mean it THAT way" that they're unwilling to recognize their mistake, even when you spell it out. It's an obnoxious habit but unfortunately not one you can hope to change with logic, at least in my experience. (My own fiance once told me he will sometimes argue a point, even after realizing he is wrong, because to do otherwise would make him "look stupid." It's not one of my favorite traits.)

* a charitable interpretation based on your description of this person

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:41 am 
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Desdemona, your arguments look perfectly sound to me--- too bad so few people truly appreciate rational arguments, eh?

As a bonus, you gave me a new sig!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:05 am 
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But Desdemona... girl power!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:26 am 
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Desdemona wrote:
ETA: Apologies for the length, but I really needed to unload before I had an aneurysm.

GAAAAH.


I think you did a great job explaining your point but it might have been over there heads. Another tactic would have been, "you would never say I want a dude/dude ticket because we need a Dad in there to set things right." no one would ever in a zillion years say that being a good dad is what it would take to straighten out Washington and that's why the statement is sexist.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:47 am 
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Some of the comments in this Jezebel article are bugging me: http://jezebel.com/thats-not-surprising ... 1434036261

tl/dr version is that Erin Brockovich is teaming up with women who have been caused pain/awful side effects by Essure implants to possibly sue Bayer. Essure is a recent (10 years old) permanent birth control for women that involves putting a metal coil in each fallopian tube, which then scars shut, preventing sperm from fertilizing eggs.

Some of the commenters are calling it 'barbaric,' 'medieval,' and saying that doctors who push Essure must be used car salesmen. But I have Essure. I've had it since 2009. It's caused me no pain, it was a simple procedure, and it was one of the best and biggest decisions I've made in my life. My doctor didn't pressure me about it, I researched my birth control options and approached her, and got a referral. I was coached through the decision and had to attend a mandatory class on permanent birth control at my local General Hospital. My doctor, a woman, asked me one last time after I'd changed into my gown outside the OR if I was 100% sure about this and understood it was irreversible. At no point in this procedure did I feel pressured, rushed, deceived, or gaslighted. I felt empowered, relieved, and happy that one aspect of my health was permanently under my control.

I'm not saying there are no dishonest doctors out there, and no women have ever been pressured into reducing or eliminating their fertility, and I would never challenge the fact that other women who had the same procedure as me had adverse side effects. But it really bothers me that this new procedure, which is a inexpensive, non-invasive alternative to women who don't/can't do tubal ligation, IUDs, hormones, or other types of birth control, is being demonized as a medieval 'torture device'* and that all women who have them are naive rubes who've been shanghai'd by some mad scientist doctor with a bonus check from Bayer in their pocket.

*a number of these commenters (and the article's author) on Jezebel, all of whom have internet (and thus Google) access, were assuming the scar tissue is caused by the coils 'scraping' up against your fallopians; it is caused by a scarring compound that is inserted with the coils which dissolves over the course of the first three months.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:48 am 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
But Desdemona... girl power!!!
Not only would I make a great president, but my boobs are still pretty perky after three kids and I can make lasagna. TAKE THAT, EVILDOERS!
LazySmurf wrote:
I think you did a great job explaining your point but it might have been over there heads. Another tactic would have been, "you would never say I want a dude/dude ticket because we need a Dad in there to set things right." no one would ever in a zillion years say that being a good dad is what it would take to straighten out Washington and that's why the statement is sexist.
I'm sure you're right, although I'm still not sure they'd have understood why it's not a compliment to say that a highly qualified female candidate's status as a "mom" is a "bonus" to her other (and more relevant) accomplishments.

Exercises in futility: the only kind I seem to get lately!

Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
But Desdemona... girl power!!!
Frealz! Not only would I make a great president, but my boobs are still pretty perky after three kids, and I can make lasagna. TAKE THAT, EVILDOERS!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:52 am 
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Thanks for the additional information. I was picturing some kind of scraping! Which may be what they're hoping for in the court of public opinion. It definitely sounds like a less invasive option in that case.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:54 am 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
'barbaric,' 'medieval,' ..........<snip> But it really bothers me that this new procedure, which is a inexpensive, non-invasive alternative to women who don't/can't do tubal ligation, IUDs, hormones, or other types of birth control, is being demonized as a medieval 'torture device'* .

sounds like SOMEBODY has a hard time with the fact that some women might choose not to Fully Embrace their Womanhood and have a quiverful.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:01 pm 
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torque wrote:
Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
'barbaric,' 'medieval,' ..........<snip> But it really bothers me that this new procedure, which is a inexpensive, non-invasive alternative to women who don't/can't do tubal ligation, IUDs, hormones, or other types of birth control, is being demonized as a medieval 'torture device'* .

sounds like SOMEBODY has a hard time with the fact that some women might choose not to Fully Embrace their Womanhood and have a quiverful.


No, these are Jezebel commenters! I think they immediately assumed that some evil ManDoctor has mansplained the Essure onto some poor unsuspecting woman. Instead of just, you know, a decade-old medical procedure proving unsuitable for a select handful of individuals. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:09 pm 
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ah, gotcha. i suppose to be fair with the history of women getting sterilized without consent some touchiness could be forgiven, but it's upsetting to think that your "own team" implies you can't make your own damn informed decision about your body.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:30 pm 
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Desdemona, you rock. I am sitting here applauding your replies to the "Mom/Mom 2016" ticket. You're so good at articulating the rational, sane point of view. I must be because you're a mom.

Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Some of the comments in this Jezebel article are bugging me: http://jezebel.com/thats-not-surprising ... 1434036261

tl/dr version is that Erin Brockovich is teaming up with women who have been caused pain/awful side effects by Essure implants to possibly sue Bayer. Essure is a recent (10 years old) permanent birth control for women that involves putting a metal coil in each fallopian tube, which then scars shut, preventing sperm from fertilizing eggs.

Some of the commenters are calling it 'barbaric,' 'medieval,' and saying that doctors who push Essure must be used car salesmen. But I have Essure. I've had it since 2009. It's caused me no pain, it was a simple procedure, and it was one of the best and biggest decisions I've made in my life. My doctor didn't pressure me about it, I researched my birth control options and approached her, and got a referral. I was coached through the decision and had to attend a mandatory class on permanent birth control at my local General Hospital. My doctor, a woman, asked me one last time after I'd changed into my gown outside the OR if I was 100% sure about this and understood it was irreversible. At no point in this procedure did I feel pressured, rushed, deceived, or gaslighted. I felt empowered, relieved, and happy that one aspect of my health was permanently under my control.

I'm not saying there are no dishonest doctors out there, and no women have ever been pressured into reducing or eliminating their fertility, and I would never challenge the fact that other women who had the same procedure as me had adverse side effects. But it really bothers me that this new procedure, which is a inexpensive, non-invasive alternative to women who don't/can't do tubal ligation, IUDs, hormones, or other types of birth control, is being demonized as a medieval 'torture device'* and that all women who have them are naive rubes who've been shanghai'd by some mad scientist doctor with a bonus check from Bayer in their pocket.

*a number of these commenters (and the article's author) on Jezebel, all of whom have internet (and thus Google) access, were assuming the scar tissue is caused by the coils 'scraping' up against your fallopians; it is caused by a scarring compound that is inserted with the coils which dissolves over the course of the first three months.


Oh, man. I shouldn't have gone to read the comments. I've got one Essure and one traditional tubal ligation. (My weird anatomy would only allow Essure on one side.) If anything, I have more cramping on the side with the traditional TL (although to be fair, that might be more down to the anatomical weirdness than the TL itself). On the Essure side, I've never had a problem. This is not to say that I don't believe people have had side effects from the procedure/implant, but every medical procedure carries a risk of side effects for some people. It seems that the vast majority of Essure placements are successful, and it is far from the medieval torture device some of the commenters are making it out to be.

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