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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:32 am 
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Vantine wrote:
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What about all the forms of sexual violence that don’t require removal of underwear?


This was my first question.
Silly Vantine! Don't you know that the only sex that counts is vaginal penetration by a penis? All that other stuff isn't real sex; ask anyone with a purity ring!

Vantine wrote:
My second question is this, it's not possible to force someone to take these pantaloons off? What if you take them off and change your mind?

Quote:
...out on a first date
...or a night of clubbing
...taking an evening run
...traveling in another country or in other potentially risky situations...


So, basically, living your life as an adult is dangerous?
That's my takeaway. So just remember, ladies: leave the house at your own risk. And if you take off your underwear, all bets are off, too!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:19 am 
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On a not-entirely-unrelated note, check out this "wholesome" anchoritic-habit-inspired swimwear! Looks comfy, right? Especially on a hot summer day!

http://www.wholesomewear.com/page-3.html

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:36 am 
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mmm nice. swimming in culottes!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:45 am 
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baps wrote:
mmm nice. swimming in culottes!
Or a knee-length skirt with a "spandex under garment for maximum flexibility...joined at the zipper to a looser fitting skirted outer garment. The skirt snaps between the legs for in the water and unsnaps for playing on the beach or going to town without changing." Yes! Two (carefully joined) layers of synthetic fabric between my inherently sinful, lust-provoking female flesh and the water in which I'm futilely attempting to swim! Even the Rapture couldn't get this thing off!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:50 am 
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There are a lot of reasons people might feel uncomfortable in traditional swimwear, and I'm pretty much fine with them wearing what makes them comfortable.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:05 pm 
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I am not okay with companies that perpetuate forked up misogynistic ideas that women's bodies are sinful, sex is sinful, and living an embodied life is a straight path to hell. I am happy for people to wear whatever they want to swim in but I'm not okay with telling 10 year old girls that their bodies are sinful.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:16 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
I am not okay with companies that perpetuate forked up misogynistic ideas that women's bodies are sinful, sex is sinful, and living an embodied life is a straight path to hell. I am happy for people to wear whatever they want to swim in but I'm not okay with telling 10 year old girls that their bodies are sinful.


^ THIS.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:30 pm 
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lutin wrote:
j-dub wrote:
I am not okay with companies that perpetuate forked up misogynistic ideas that women's bodies are sinful, sex is sinful, and living an embodied life is a straight path to hell. I am happy for people to wear whatever they want to swim in but I'm not okay with telling 10 year old girls that their bodies are sinful.


^ THIS.

+ 1 (sinfully) yummy.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:36 pm 
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ooooh a skirt! gotta let that kitten breathe!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Fee wrote:
ooooh a skirt! gotta let that kitten breathe!
But only when you're standing vertically on dry land (and not wearing shiny shoes)! You need to snap that action up tight before wading in, lest the water's sin-enhancing buoyancy cause the skirt to float up, giving the whole world a titillating glimpse of your knee-length spandex undergarment and fatally impugning your modesty. And nothing spoils a nice, wholesome day at the beach or pool like an impromptu stoning!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:11 pm 
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I know my kitten breathes best when clad in modesty spandex.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:06 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
I am not okay with companies that perpetuate forked up misogynistic ideas that women's bodies are sinful, sex is sinful, and living an embodied life is a straight path to hell. I am happy for people to wear whatever they want to swim in but I'm not okay with telling 10 year old girls that their bodies are sinful.



I don't see any of that in the website, though. The most judgmental thing on the page seems to be the word "modest."


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:49 pm 
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annak wrote:
There are a lot of reasons people might feel uncomfortable in traditional swimwear, and I'm pretty much fine with them wearing what makes them comfortable.


This is true, however this company is based on the idea that women need to protect the "purity" of their "brothers in Christ" by helping them not be lustful should they see a female shoulder. The Duggars are big fans and promote these suits on their show.

There are actually lots of other more modern alternatives available, especially with UV fabric that don't come with the same baggage.

Their website may be more benign, but dig a little and you can find a lot of stuff digging deeper into the modestly movement. The word "modest" in this context is pretty loaded since it has a very specific meaning, most of which is for women to take on the burden of covering up so men don't sin. That is a forked way of thinking and miles apart from dressing conservatively for personal or general religious reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:40 pm 
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From the same mindset that brought you "these damn homosexuals keep putting their penises in my mouth! Help a brother out, Jesus."

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:51 pm 
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OK, fair enough. I don't know anything about the company and was mostly just thinking about people who for all kinds of reasons might want something like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
From the same mindset that brought you "these damn homosexuals keep putting their penises in my mouth! Help a brother out, Jesus."
Exactly. Is it their fault that their wide stances magically cause penises to spontaneously fall into their mouths?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:57 pm 
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From an advocateof modest dress.
Quote:
This was an opportunity for us to tie what we had been doing casually to some great Biblical principles, physical realities, and emotional needs of our girls while at the same time setting a great example for our boys, and protecting the eyes of men around us. We do not want to stir up inappropriate thoughts or behaviors on the part of men or boys, or provoke emotional or physical actions towards our girls. There is a difference between dressing attractively and dressing to attract (not that dressing to attract her husband is a bad thing when a girl is married!). We are preserving our girls’ innocence while they are learning to accentuate their grace and beauty. (Dressing modestly does not mean frumpy!)


Quote:
One of the reasons for wearing dresses or skirts exclusively is that when a woman is wearing pants a man’s eyes fall to a woman’s crotch. This isn’t necessarily intentional; it’s just the nature of men “to look”.



So, don't dress like a tramp or you will force men to act!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:08 pm 
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Quote:
One of the reasons for wearing dresses or skirts exclusively is that when a woman is wearing pants a man’s eyes fall to a woman’s crotch. This isn’t necessarily intentional; it’s just the nature of men “to look”.

Whoooooo says I can't look at a woman's crotch while she's wearing a dress, huh? I mean, sure, it's a little less defined I suppose, but I can look in the general vicinity! So there.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:09 pm 
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The State of New Jersey.

Apparently Chris Christie, who is pro-life, cuts all spending for women's health down to $0 every single time he is presented with a budget, and has fought the ACA/healthcare, a rise in the minimum wage, gun control and same-sex marriage and really any issue that affects the poor or minorities. He has even left Federal funds on the table, because he doesn't want to be forced to provide healthcare to low income women, which includes detection and care for cancer, not contraception and free abortions, won the women's vote in our state. And when interviewed, apparently the consensus is that while most women who voted for him don't agree with him on the issues, they really like the way he "takes charge." For fork's Sake, this is electoral policy, not 50 Shades of Grey.

And I am really disappointed by the Democratic Party, who seem to have thrown all their money at the Virginia race to get McAuliffe in and basically ignored the NJ race (which happened to have an all female ticket). About 60 elected Democrats endorsed and actively campaigned for Chris Christie. Even President Obama refused to endorse Barbara Buono, and the Democratic Governors Association gave her $5,000. Where they gave McAuliffe $6.5 million.

I just feel like the Democrats just sold out women's issues and female candidates, in the name of saving money, and have created a viable GOP presidential candidate, who is pro-life, anti-women's healthcare, pro-gun and so strongly pro-business that he gives millions to his developer cronies and so conservative on social issues that he'd rather leave federal funds on the table than provide low income women with healthcare, just in case the optics make it look like he might be pro-choice. Christie had a 50% approval rating going into this race, and with the Democrat's active participation (60 of them endorsed and campaigned for (like in his campaign literature and on his robocalls)) he was elected with a 20+ % lead over Buono and won the women, working/middle class families, the Hispanic and the union vote (except the NJEA) and strengthened his position with black voters, all traditional Democratic constituencies.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:20 am 
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The thing with Virginia though is that it's supposed to be such a critical state for the next Presidential race, and it was so close, with few, if any, newspapers endorsing anybody (not even the always liberal Post would endorse McAuliffe.) I keep meaning to look up turnout numbers, but anecdotally, nobody voted. The woman gave me a string of 8 I Voted stickers, she was so happy to have a customer.

Not saying NJ should have been ignored, but they knew they could have a good shot at buying the election here. Without all that money and attention, we'd likely have Cuccinelli, the Va tea party darling. I live in Cuccinelli country--it ain't pretty. <shudder>

Maybe there is a silver lining: Christie keeps his inexplicable dem support, gets the nom, Republicans go batshit because he isn't "conservative enough" (like they did with that other liberal, Romney) and Hillary Clinton wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:20 am 
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Desdemona wrote:
Vantine wrote:
My second question is this, it's not possible to force someone to take these pantaloons off? What if you take them off and change your mind?

Quote:
...out on a first date
...or a night of clubbing
...taking an evening run
...traveling in another country or in other potentially risky situations...


So, basically, living your life as an adult is dangerous?
That's my takeaway. So just remember, ladies: leave the house at your own risk. And if you take off your underwear, all bets are off, too!


I've gone running a couple of times without pantaloons because the shorts have that liner and chaffing, but I really feel like if something happened to me that it would be brought up. I hate that that would even enter my mind.

Tofulish, I hate to say this, but maybe they just saw it as a losing investment. Regardless of policy, I bet some people just see him as a celebrity (like him being on SNL) and the man who took charge during Sandy. I'm not saying you are wrong about anything you said, but that's the perception based on media coverage, and that's all some people know probably.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:26 am 
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An article on the The Vagenda today about the pants:

'Boy, I Can't Wait To Get My Brand New Pair of Anti-Rape Knickers'

Quote:
We don’t need anything that puts any more blame on victims. I’m sure this was never the intention, but it is exactly what such a design does. It puts women in control, to an extent, as the advert states, but in control of the likelihood of whether they are raped. That shouldn’t be up to a woman, beyond the fact that, no thanks, she doesn’t want to be raped.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:04 am 
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Vantine wrote:
From an advocateof modest dress.
Quote:
This was an opportunity for us to tie what we had been doing casually to some great Biblical principles, physical realities, and emotional needs of our girls while at the same time setting a great example for our boys, and protecting the eyes of men around us. We do not want to stir up inappropriate thoughts or behaviors on the part of men or boys, or provoke emotional or physical actions towards our girls. There is a difference between dressing attractively and dressing to attract (not that dressing to attract her husband is a bad thing when a girl is married!). We are preserving our girls’ innocence while they are learning to accentuate their grace and beauty. (Dressing modestly does not mean frumpy!)
So, don't dress like a tramp or you will force men to act!
I can't even say how much dumber I feel just for having read that; the fact that thousands of brain cells began committing suicide at the phrase "protecting the eyes of men around us" isn't helping.
Mars wrote:
Quote:
One of the reasons for wearing dresses or skirts exclusively is that when a woman is wearing pants a man’s eyes fall to a woman’s crotch. This isn’t necessarily intentional; it’s just the nature of men “to look”.

Whoooooo says I can't look at a woman's crotch while she's wearing a dress, huh? I mean, sure, it's a little less defined I suppose, but I can look in the general vicinity! So there.
Man, you are out of control! If we ever meet, I will be sure to be wearing a huge, shapeless, opaque rubber bubble (it's for your own good, and the protection of your eyes)!

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Last edited by Desdemona on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:11 am 
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Mmmmh, rubber.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:16 am 
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aelle wrote:
Mmmmh, rubber.
Don't make me put out your eyes! And your imagination! (SIGH. There's just no protecting some people.)

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