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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:58 pm 
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I know how it will go: the biased, liberal media will be mean and pick on Trump for stuff he said 11 years ago, while ignoring the real issues. We will hear all about it on Twitter!

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:25 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye

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Tofulish wrote:
LFL wrote:
I now apologize to all the people to whom I said that Bernie couldn't beat Trump in the general election.


HAHAHAHA!


I feel genuinely bad about it. I actually managed to overestimate Trump, and I didn't think that was possible.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:53 pm 
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Well, in fairness, the Clintons and the media were all spinning it as Bernie couldn't win. And we really don't know what would have happened with Bernie. Who leaked the Trump taxes? Who leaked the Billy Bush tape? Would they have leaked it for Bernie?

I do hope that there are some changes at the DNC, because I do think that we don't know for sure that HRC was picked because she was the best candidate (though we also don't know that she wasn't), because of all the irregularities with ballots etc. I wish we'd had a clean Democratic primary.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:53 pm 
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shiitake just got real. trump is giving a press conference with women who accused Bill Clinton.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:59 am 
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I struggle with the idea that we all have different opinions and that there may be valid reasons that people would support Trump. His following are a lot of poor people who have felt unsupported in the last 20-30 years or so. And I know poverty can drive some xenophobia but really people, why?

And yes it is good to see that the GOP is abandoning Trump. It scares me though that he still might win. And it is worrisome that Clinton isn't outright trouncing him. In most polls, she is ahead by a few points but I'm surprised the margin isn't bigger.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:05 pm 
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According to the WSJ, her lead is now 11 points.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:12 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye

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linanil wrote:
I struggle with the idea that we all have different opinions and that there may be valid reasons that people would support Trump. His following are a lot of poor people who have felt unsupported in the last 20-30 years or so. And I know poverty can drive some xenophobia but really people, why?


I know the media keeps repeating it, but the idea that Trump supporters live in poverty has been debunked:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:21 pm 
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LFL wrote:
linanil wrote:
I struggle with the idea that we all have different opinions and that there may be valid reasons that people would support Trump. His following are a lot of poor people who have felt unsupported in the last 20-30 years or so. And I know poverty can drive some xenophobia but really people, why?


I know the media keeps repeating it, but the idea that Trump supporters live in poverty has been debunked:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/


I didn't mean to state that his following is only of poor people but rather I can understand maybe some poor people that follow him. Rich people also follow him because Republican and those people are crassholes.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:23 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Well, in fairness, the Clintons and the media were all spinning it as Bernie couldn't win. And we really don't know what would have happened with Bernie. Who leaked the Trump taxes? Who leaked the Billy Bush tape? Would they have leaked it for Bernie?

I do hope that there are some changes at the DNC, because I do think that we don't know for sure that HRC was picked because she was the best candidate (though we also don't know that she wasn't), because of all the irregularities with ballots etc. I wish we'd had a clean Democratic primary.


I'm still not convinced that many of the issues in the primaries were not caused by people who were completely ignorant about how these things work getting involved for the first time. Caucuses, closed primaries... these have all existed since I first voted in 1988. It's a nice idea that if only Bernie would have won but I know many Democratic/Democratic leaning voters who chose not to vote for him because they did not think the was the best candidate. His inability to attract black voters, especially in the South, cannot be overlooked either.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:35 pm 
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Paul Ryan has basically done everything short of un-endorsing Trump, and now Trump is tweeting shots at Paul Ryan ("Paul Ryan should spend more time on balancing the budget, jobs and illegal immigration and not waste his time on fighting Republican nominee"). Boy oh boy.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:33 pm 
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here's what a good friend has written to explain why he isn't voting for hrc:

here's a few links that explain why I can't vote for Hillary Clinton...even though I will, on Jan 20, celebrate America's accomplishment in electing for the first time a President who is a woman.

--- Clinton is a strong supporter of the military industrial complex, who like Reagan, Bush, and Bush has few qualms about disregarding international law, killing lots of people in other countries so as to "advance" America's (mostly corporate) interests:

https://theintercept.com/2016/09/08/hil ... are-state/

--- She gleefully celebrated the murder of the leader of another country (Libya), a leader who for decades had been the lone African supporter of Nelson Mandela

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y

(and she was actively involved in this operation which has now let ISIS set up shop in Libya)

---She threatened to totally "obliterate" Iran (and its 70 million men women & children) if it launched a nuclear attack on Iseal. (Iran has no nuclear weapons; Isreal threatens its neighbors with over 200 nukes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=857guwaNbRc

-- She's clearly in Wall Street's back pocket, taking, along w/ Bill, over $23 million in speaking fees from Wall St & big corporations, not to mention untold tens of millions they donated to her PAC.

Most recently, she was called out by Bernie Sanders for taking $1 million from DeucheBank, a criminal bank now fined billions by the US, (and hoping for a bailout) and huge sums from Wells Fargo, which was just caught taking money from its own customers to open secret accounts that boosted sales figures.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-0 ... tsche-bank

After researching this issue for the last 7 years, I am convinced that these "Too-Big-To-Fail" Wall St. banks are the primary (but not only) oppressors of the poor and middle class in America. (I can give you dozens of examples, here's just one:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... t-20100331

). Their candidate is Sec. Clinton. So I see no escaping the conclusion that a vote for Clinton is a vote for unnecessary war and a vote to oppress poor women (and men).

This is based not on my conjectures but mostly on statements Clinton herself has made. I respect everybody's choice in elections, and think that everyone should know what they are voting for.

Knowing what I know, I cannot look at the people overseas who will be killed or displaced by future wars, nor the poor or working people in the US who will continue to be robbed and say "you don't matter"...and then construct some reason why I can disregard their interests when casting my vote.

Fortunately I live in a state where voting doesn't matter in Presidential elections; the outcome is predetermined. I can vote 3rd party (in my case a progressive woman: Jill Stein) w/o risk of effecting the national election. However I would still vote my conscience no matter what state I lived in. Its the only way to keep politicians from getting worse.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:39 pm 
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There are many things I will miss about the PPK when it's gone, but I will dance on the grave of this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:45 pm 
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Hahahaha.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:52 pm 
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Dr. Apricot wrote:
There are many things I will miss about the PPK when it's gone, but I will dance on the grave of this thread.

+1000000000

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:09 pm 
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Dr. Apricot wrote:
There are many things I will miss about the PPK when it's gone, but I will dance on the grave of this thread.


is there space on your dance card for me? i can follow your lead. i promise!

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:34 pm 
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So Twitter has decided that Hillary Clinton is Captain Janeway and Trump is Dukat: https://twitter.com/JoeSondow/status/785338743305539584

I find no fault in this analogy.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:15 am 
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WashPo finally endorsing Clinton. It's a bit hilarious they waited this long, but hey, better Late than never. This editorial is the sanest, fairest, most accurate thing I've read this entire election cycle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 18b5509536

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:38 am 
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Considering that WashPo has been friendly to Hillary throughout the primaries, it did take them a while but it was coming.

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:07 am 
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This entire election cycle has been one big trigger. But at least Michelle Obama gave an amazing speech today, so at least there's that.

And speaking of the Washington Post, if by chance any of you are Amazon Prime members, you can get a FREE six month trial digital subscription (it goes to $3.99 a month after the six months are up, but can be canceled at any time). It is available at the following link:

amzn.to/2dJLpY9


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:46 pm 
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Maverick McMaverick wrote:
"I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president, would put up," McCain said. "I promise you."


Well, that's just great. If you're so unhappy with your job, maybe you should stop running for office? Are we going to have a Supreme Court vacancy until there's a Democratic supermajority in Congress?

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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:28 am 
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I kind of want to ask all the people in this thread who said Hillary was just as bad as Trump if they still feel that way.


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 Post subject: Re: 2016 US Election
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:41 am 
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Mmmm-hmmm.


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