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 Post subject: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:23 pm 
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http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/12/the- ... rious+Eats)

I couldn't even read all of it because it's ridiculous, but here's their conclusion (which doesn't make me feel stabby at all...). And of course there are bigger and more important targets than foie gras, but really? A lengthy defense of it? I also love all the hand wringing about attacks on the poor rich people and their foie gras!

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In large part, it's because foie gras is an easy target. There are only three foie farms in the country, and none of them have the money or government clout to defend themselves the way that the chicken or beef industry does. It's a food product that is marketed directly at the affluent, and the rich are always an easy target. As an occasional delicacy, it's also a food that's relatively easy for most people to give up.

Personally, I find this kind of protesting abhorrent. If you are going to protest anything, it should be the industrial production of eggs, where chickens are routinely kept in cages so small that they can't even turn around for an entire year. The problem, of course, is that you tell people to stop eating cheap eggs, and nobody will listen. The leaders of the anti-foie movement know this and use it to their advantage, using video and photographs taken from the worst of the farms (none of the ones in this country, for the record), and making it seem like all foie production is as despicable.

If you are against the confinement, slaughter, and eating of all animals, then that's a different argument to be had at a different time. But to single out foie as the worst of the worst is misguided at best, and downright manipulative at worst. Just as there are good eggs and bad eggs, good beef and bad beef, good chicken and bad chicken, so there is good foie and bad foie. We are especially lucky, because we happen to live in a country where all of the foie produced is good foie.

The only question left for me is whether to serve it hot or cold.


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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:07 pm 
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He makes a very good point. Just like there is good foie and bad foie, there is also good slavery and bad slavery. Good pedophilia and bad pedophilia.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:47 pm 
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The poor meat industry needs to defend itself. But even sadder is that the foie grois industry doesn't have the money to defend itself. It's a forking crime.

Although, as dumb as this article is, the pedophilia analogy^ makes me cringe, too. I don't dig slavery and holocaust analogies, either, but with some tact and depth they can occasionally pass. With pedophilia (and rape) the analogy does a major disservice and makes vegans look like they don't understand (or are insensitive to the fact) that pedophilia is a psychological disorder. There actually CAN be humane pedophilia, and that would be: if you are a pedophile seek help and never put yourself in a triggering situation. Not all pedophiles act on their feelings. The ones that seek and receive help and do all in their power to fight it actually are good pedophiles.

Furthermore, throwing around analogies like that strikes me as incredibly insensitive and emotionally charged. Unless you are going to seriously engage in both issues that you are discussing, then you are just exploiting people's emotions.

But I know, nickvicious, that these analogies did not start with you, it's a major epidemic in the vegan community.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:23 am 
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IsaChandra wrote:
Although, as dumb as this article is, the pedophilia analogy^ makes me cringe, too. I don't dig slavery and holocaust analogies, either, but with some tact and depth they can occasionally pass. With pedophilia (and rape) the analogy does a major disservice and makes vegans look like they don't understand (or are insensitive to the fact) that pedophilia is a psychological disorder. There actually CAN be humane pedophilia, and that would be: if you are a pedophile seek help and never put yourself in a triggering situation. Not all pedophiles act on their feelings. The ones that seek and receive help and do all in their power to fight it actually are good pedophiles.

Furthermore, throwing around analogies like that strikes me as incredibly insensitive and emotionally charged. Unless you are going to seriously engage in both issues that you are discussing, then you are just exploiting people's emotions.

But I know, nickvicious, that these analogies did not start with you, it's a major epidemic in the vegan community.

<3

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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:35 pm 
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IsaChandra wrote:
The poor meat industry needs to defend itself. But even sadder is that the foie grois industry doesn't have the money to defend itself. It's a forking crime.

Although, as dumb as this article is, the pedophilia analogy^ makes me cringe, too. I don't dig slavery and holocaust analogies, either, but with some tact and depth they can occasionally pass. With pedophilia (and rape) the analogy does a major disservice and makes vegans look like they don't understand (or are insensitive to the fact) that pedophilia is a psychological disorder. There actually CAN be humane pedophilia, and that would be: if you are a pedophile seek help and never put yourself in a triggering situation. Not all pedophiles act on their feelings. The ones that seek and receive help and do all in their power to fight it actually are good pedophiles.

Furthermore, throwing around analogies like that strikes me as incredibly insensitive and emotionally charged. Unless you are going to seriously engage in both issues that you are discussing, then you are just exploiting people's emotions.

But I know, nickvicious, that these analogies did not start with you, it's a major epidemic in the vegan community.

I hadn't thought of it that way. My intention was to compare an action that is morally unjustifiable to another action that is morally unjustifiable. I hadn't thought about pedophilia as a psychological disorder before.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:56 pm 
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Why Foie Gras is Unethical
by BFH

Eating animals is unethical.

The end.

(Once again, I'm a genius, and should be paid as such.)


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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:52 pm 
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http://www.vegan.com/blog/2010/12/17/de ... foie-gras/

Bam!

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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:14 pm 
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b.vicious wrote:
http://www.vegan.com/blog/2010/12/17/defending-foie-gras/

Bam!


hurray! Good piece.


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 Post subject: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:57 pm 
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more BS happy meat...oh boy

a distant friend posted this on FB, her comment: "Fascinating article. I've avoided foie gras for the PETAfied reasons but this makes a lot of good and in-depth points. Similar thought should be put into everything we eat in general: no need for dietary extremes, just be conscious of where your food comes from."

dietary extremes: I could go on for awhile but all I can say right now is: ahhhhhhh!

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/12/the- ... not-u.html


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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:59 pm 
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I don't want to seem like the vegan bisque but I couldn't help but reply : "One must eat in line with their ethics"


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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:29 pm 
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Wait, was that article supposed to make me think that foie gras was okay? Because it all looked pretty miserable and the author said that this is best way that the ducks are treated (and suggested that thousands of farms are much worse). To be fair I didn't make it all the way to the end because it made me sick.


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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:45 pm 
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That article lost me the minute I saw this picture:

Image

That is what they stick down a duck or goose's throat to forcefeed it. Yeah, that sounds like hell.

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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:47 pm 
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I saw the picture too and stopped scrolling.


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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:52 pm 
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That article made foie gras seem pretty unethical to me, I don't really know how that could convince anyone that foie gras is ethical in any way.


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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:03 pm 
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Whoa... How can anyone say foie gras could be ethical?! I mean, what the fizzle?! Farming animals for the purpose of eating them/exploiting them for things they make (honey/milk/wool/leather/etc.) is NEVER ethical.

Pretending that it's ethical to use a flexible plastic tube rather than a metal tube to force feed an animal is a sure sign of their cognitive dissonance. They're basically saying, "Well, even though they kill these ducks so I can eat their livers, foie gras tastes good - especially from this particular farm, so it CAN'T be unethical! Here, I'll SHOW you!! Look! Most of these ducks have ALL their feathers! And they don't even cry, yell, or get violent toward the man who just stuck the tube down their throat."

Sigh... I will never understand why people think killing an animal for consumption could ever be considered ethical.


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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:10 pm 
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sprout wrote:
a distant friend posted this on FB, her comment: "Fascinating article. I've avoided foie gras for the PETAfied reasons but this makes a lot of good and in-depth points. Similar thought should be put into everything we eat in general: no need for dietary extremes, just be conscious of where your food comes from."

yes, because god forbid you'd be avoiding foie gras for some bs dietary extremes...when in actuality you could be happily eating it with a clear conscience!

barf

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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:17 pm 
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its difficult to measure how battery hens is a more important issue than something like foie gras, obviously cruel but not as common, and I'm not really interested in trying to prove which is a more worthy cause to take up opposition to, mainly because this idea that you can't care about more than one thing at a time seriously dicks me off. Its just plain stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:21 pm 
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it's similar to a chef friend of mine, who visited the farm in the Hudson Valley where a lot of foie gras is produced with his cooking class, telling me the ducks didn't seem to mind! he also thought turkeys kinda deserve to die because "they're so dumb they come running towards the person about to kill them". No compassion.


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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:30 pm 
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Is ignorance really the greatest sin? As long as you know where your food cones from—no matter where it comes from!—you're off the hook?

Bizarre.

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 Post subject: Re: foie gras frustration
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:18 pm 
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I think this is already posted in the parlor.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:22 pm 
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merged!

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 Post subject: Re: "The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:48 pm 
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i only read the bit posted here, but to me, it doesn't seem like the article is trying to portray foie gras production as ethical. rather, it's saying that it's at least as acceptable as any other process of raising meat for food. i would be inclined to agree, because i find them all to be unacceptable. and i would be confused by a person who thought that factory farming involving chickens or cattle or pigs was somehow less abhorrent than foie gras. all of it sucks. if you're objecting to foie gras on ethical grounds but eating chicken with no guilt, then yeah, you should think a little harder about your stance. i'm with the rest of you about how the part where they're trying to get people to accept the foie gras if they're willing to accept the chicken seems backward, though. and i'd bet the leaders of the anti-foie movement also have some things to say about other farming practices. we are capable of multitasking, thank you.

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