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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:51 pm 
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HandsInTheDirtAgain wrote:
the point of this thread was to find out is I was welcome or not :(


You are welcome! Your original post though indicates you are asking if you are vegan despite eating eggs.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:52 pm 
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HandsInTheDirtAgain wrote:
the point of this thread was to find out is I was welcome or not :(


Seriously? You've been told you're welcome, this is a board for everyone but you've moved the goalposts from your first post and insist on justifying your misuse of the term vegan. Don't ask what people think if you don't want to hear their thoughts. And cut the drama, no one has implied that you aren't welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:54 pm 
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You're welcome, as was said above. Everyone is welsome as long as the recipes and conversation is vegan! or that was my assumption.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:54 pm 
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fezza wrote:
Shy Mox wrote:
HandsInTheDirtAgain wrote:
Labels suck :P
I find I say vegan as otherwise people assume that I eat dairy and eggs (and as I said , other eggs are a nono!) so I kind of find myself in this no mans land of more than veggie less than vegan :P

Can't win ;)


I think "strict vegetarian" would work in this case, even if you want to say "I eat a mostly vegan diet" I don't think its too bad at all!


AFAIK strict vegetarians avoid eggs and dairy so I don't think that would work. OP you are an ovo vegetarian*.






*Link


Really? I assumed strict vegetarians called themselves thusly because there was something about them that wasn't quite vegan.

Well, you know what they say about assuming.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:56 pm 
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I think strict vegetarians can still use/wear animal products, they just don't eat them.


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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:56 pm 
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I believe you decide for yourself where your veganism begins and ends, it is just a label anyways and it is still useful when you go out to eat to call yourself a vegan because you said you don't eat chicken eggs other than the ones from your own chickens. Plus it will be easier to call yourself vegan then "I'm a vegetarian who doesn't drink milk, consume honey, or eat eggs except the ones from my own rescue chickens."

One thing you could do instead of eating the eggs though is selling them. We used to sell our chicken eggs on the roadside for $3 a dozen and all the profit went to the Children's Hospital.

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Last edited by ExpiredSanity on Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:58 pm 
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Quote The Vegan Society

[T]he word "veganism" denotes a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.

You could argue that the lifestyle choices are vegan but the diet is not?

An unfertalised egg comes from a hen sure but so does poop.
Very rock ground I know :P
The same could not be said of a cow giving milk of course.

All the same, I respect that I am not seen as a vegan, will be vegan -ish (to say strict veggie still implies dairy usage and (shudder) even fish in some omnies eyes) when they say "whats the -ish" I can explain then.


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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:01 pm 
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I would just try to keep vegan out of it and not think of veganism as the be all and end all of ethics. I mean, there are a lot of vegans who do rude things like flash people in subways or gross things like talk about their poop or do unethical things like buy non-fair trade bananas.

What you decide to call yourself, I don't care that much, really. But a lot of vegans do care, so why tread on that?

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:04 pm 
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I'm also going to say that if you eat chicken poop, you aren't vegan.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:05 pm 
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linanil wrote:
I'm also going to say that if you eat chicken poop, you aren't vegan.

I would be seriously worried about ANYONE who ate chicken poop.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:10 pm 
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QueenV wrote:
linanil wrote:
I'm also going to say that if you eat chicken poop, you aren't vegan.

I would be seriously worried about ANYONE who ate chicken poop.

Well you gotta get your vitamin B12 somehow...

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:14 pm 
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HandsInTheDirtAgain wrote:
the point of this thread was to find out is I was welcome or not :(


You're welcome, the ppk is for vegetarians and vegans.


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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Veg_Eric wrote:
HandsInTheDirtAgain wrote:
the point of this thread was to find out is I was welcome or not :(


You're welcome, the ppk is for vegetarians and vegans.


AND brian

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:16 pm 
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linanil wrote:
QueenV wrote:
linanil wrote:
I'm also going to say that if you eat chicken poop, you aren't vegan.

I would be seriously worried about ANYONE who ate chicken poop.

Well you gotta get your vitamin B12 somehow...

You go first.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:28 pm 
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HandsInTheDirtAgain wrote:
Quote The Vegan Society

[T]he word "veganism" denotes a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.

You could argue that the lifestyle choices are vegan but the diet is not?

An unfertalised egg comes from a hen sure but so does poop.
Very rock ground I know :P
The same could not be said of a cow giving milk of course.

All the same, I respect that I am not seen as a vegan, will be vegan -ish (to say strict veggie still implies dairy usage and (shudder) even fish in some omnies eyes) when they say "whats the -ish" I can explain then.


Well, the fish thing comes from people saying they are vegetarian but still eat fish. Thus, someone who says they're vegan but still eats eggs (albeit their rescued chickens' unfertilised eggs) causes a similar issue. There are no burning torches chasing you from the PPK, though! Everyone is welcome so long as they respect the vegan outlook of this board. But eating eggs is not vegan, whichever way you come by them :)

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:29 pm 
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While I see no problem with what you do, I agree it's not vegan. Also, you might try feeding them back to the chickens as making so many eggs saps nutrients from their bones and this is a way to give it back to them. I know Farm Sanctuary does this.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:38 pm 
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I see that this thread has split into two parts:

1) Yes, you're totally welcome here, for sure. It's great to share ideas, and even have discussions about things like eggs. Heck, in a recent photography project, I used a pair of harvested eggs. I did not consume them, but I did photograph them. Is that vegan? :)

Image

2) As a vegan who was omnivorous 37 years, I've spent a lot of time reading about the differences between the different lifestyles, and embracing all folks who make steps toward being more compassionate. I know that the major pro-veggie organizations try by getting people to eat less meat and dairy - even if it's only one day a week - and that's a great place to start. Once you click into the vegetarian lifestyle, now you're saying you don't eat meat at all, which in and of itself is a great step toward being more compassionate, it's a big commitment and, luckily, it's much easier to find resources for than veganism. Almost all restaurants have vegetarian offerings, whereas many don't have much in the way of vegan offerings.

I think the main concern that vegans have with someone mislabeling themselves as vegan, particularly with eggs, is that it does potentially make things harder for us when we use the term "vegan" with the general public: waitstaff, chefs, family and friends. "Oh, my friend is vegan, and SHE eats eggs..." might translate to pureed eggs hidden in my food, or someone not properly checking the ingredients list before they dump the can, bag or box into the pot on the stove. It's an uphill battle of education sometimes, so it's important to keep terms as clear as possible.

On the other hand, I don't see a problem with saying "I follow the vegan lifestyle, although I still eat eggs." Technically, plenty of people who claim to be vegan yet still eat honey, aren't truly 100% vegan in the purest sense of the word. Having said that, there are so many products out there that are built around animal products, no one is truly, 100% vegan - you'd go mad trying to extricate all animal products from your life. Keeping things simple, buying wholesome, vegan products from companies that you can trust, or better yet buying vegan ingredients and making things from recipes - which is why a lot of us are here - is one easy way to be vegan and stay sane. Sanity is good.

So, someone who eats eggs a vegan? Probably not. Are you cool for being a kind-to-animals vegetarian? Absolutely!


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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:47 pm 
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OP: Everyone is welcome on the PPK. We have lots of members who aren't vegan, and plenty who aren't vegetarian. It's not a value judgment when people tell you that eating eggs (no matter how ethically sourced) is not vegan. It's just a fact.

What you are doing seems pretty ethical to me, but it's not vegan in any universe.

If being vegan is important to you, it's easy enough to just not eat those eggs. If you'd like to continue to eat the eggs, then just don't call yourself vegan, and be content with being an awesome friend to animals.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:54 pm 
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abbierae wrote:
This has come up many times on the ppk, and this is usually the consensus:

1. You are a very compassionate vegetarian, as mel c says, but not vegan, because vegans don't knowingly eat animal products, however ethically they are sourced.

2. You can feed the eggs back to the chicken. They like it and it's good for them, so everyone wins!

3. The reason it's not that cool to call yourself vegan is because it confuses people that aren't vegan, and muddies the term. Like, I might get fed eggs at someone's house because their other vegan friend eats eggs so why wouldn't I.

But don't get your coat! We love you regardless of your rescue chicken egg status.


Yes.

FootFace wrote:
Non-vegan ≠ Bad person.

The reason you're not a vegan is because you eat eggs, not because you are harming animals.

You are not harming animals. You are helping animals.

You may stay.


and yes.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Could you maybe say, instead of "I'm vegan" or "veganish" or "strict vegetarian" or anything like that, that you don't want to eat or use things that hurt animals? That lets you loose from eating eggs, dairy etc. at restaurants or with your friends, yet lets you eat your own chickens' eggs without confusing anyone?

You're definitely welcome though!

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Last edited by Dr. Horrible on Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:11 pm 
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You're welcome to stay! And as someone else said, there's no shame in being a strict vegetarian. Just the term "vegan" means someone who does not consume animal products, which you admittedly do on occasion. There's nothing wrong with that, but there is a pretty set-in-stone definition for veganism. But stick around the PPK! There's room for you here.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:15 pm 
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HandsInTheDirtAgain wrote:
the point of this thread was to find out is I was welcome or not :(

Oh, that's much simpler: yes.

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:23 pm 
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My parents are planning to have their own chickens when they start their own Bed & Breakfast a couple of years into the future, and they asked me if I would eat the eggs. I can't really think of any reason why it would be WRONG to eat their eggs, but I'm not sure if I want to, since I don't need to and they can use it themselves. I don't think it's wrong though. Regardless of that, I also know that if I do, I'm no longer a vegan. Not because I've done something wrong, but because the definition of veganism means you don't eat eggs. Again - I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But it means you're not a vegan. Which is just a label! I think what I mentioned earlier is just as good a thing to say about yourself as "I'm a vegan" is. As long as you're trying to help, that's good enough!

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Dr. Horrible wrote:
My parents are planning to have their own chickens when they start their own Bed & Breakfast a couple of years into the future, and they asked me if I would eat the eggs. I can't really think of any reason why it would be WRONG to eat their eggs, but I'm not sure if I want to, since I don't need to and they can use it themselves.

If they are buying their chickens and not rescuing them, then they are supporting an industry that kills the undesirable male chicks, and transports the chicks in very cruel ways (they will mail them right to your house and send an extra five (or more depending) to cover any that may die).

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 Post subject: Re: What do YOU guys think??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:41 pm 
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ExpiredSanity wrote:
Dr. Horrible wrote:
My parents are planning to have their own chickens when they start their own Bed & Breakfast a couple of years into the future, and they asked me if I would eat the eggs. I can't really think of any reason why it would be WRONG to eat their eggs, but I'm not sure if I want to, since I don't need to and they can use it themselves.

If they are buying their chickens and not rescuing them, then they are supporting an industry that kills the undesirable male chicks, and transports the chicks in very cruel ways (they will mail them right to your house and send an extra five (or more depending) to cover any that may die).

I'm aware of all of this, and obviously they'd be rescuing them, as I've told my parents exactly what you just told me and they agreed with me that saving chickens (as well as cats, dogs, etc.) would be a lot better than buying them. I'm sorry I didn't clarify that - I thought it'd be obvious. Sorry I made you angry, awesome owl. :)

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"So something ripped him open and ate out his insides?" "Like an oreo cookie! ... well, except for, you know, without the chocolaty cookie goodness."
DON'T WARN THE TADPOLES!


Last edited by Dr. Horrible on Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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