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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:35 pm 
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AutumnVegan wrote:
I hate comments on a woman's appearance (whether it's positive/degrading/negative) when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Can't we have a conversation about something cool someone we know is doing/whatever, without you saying she's SO HOT or SO FAT when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand? I'm sure a woman didn't give an artist talk or start a band to hear that she's sexy.



I couldn't agree more!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:25 am 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
speaking of feminism

This is all sorts of awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:40 pm 
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CandyBeans wrote:
AutumnVegan wrote:
I hate comments on a woman's appearance (whether it's positive/degrading/negative) when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Can't we have a conversation about something cool someone we know is doing/whatever, without you saying she's SO HOT or SO FAT when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand? I'm sure a woman didn't give an artist talk or start a band to hear that she's sexy.



I couldn't agree more!


Yes, or anyones appearance. I was at a festival this weekend & bumped into an old friend after watching a totally amazing band & his response to me saying 'holy shiitake they were awesome' was to say 'yeah, I didn't realise the guitarist was a fat guy'....

What?! What does that have to do with anything. I didn't know how to respond.

Edit: To answer the original question, my dad. Last time I mentioned being a feminist in a conversation he told me not to be so ridiculous & that I was too sensible to be "one of those idiots", again, I didn't know how to respond to that either!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:06 pm 
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all of the women shittalking themselves. i hate hate hate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:19 pm 
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I hate how I never think of a snappy comeback to people's sexist bullshiitake until I'm not with that person anymore. Ugh!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:02 pm 
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Jigglypuff wrote:
I hate how I never think of a snappy comeback to people's sexist bullshiitake until I'm not with that person anymore. Ugh!

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L'esprit d'escalier.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:03 am 
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My favourite anti-feminist was Mrs Thatcher who (allegedly) said that she didn't owe any debt to feminism.

So no debt for being able to even vote let alone run the country?

I am with Jewbacca though, the anti-trans sentiment and the whole womyn born womym policy makes me really sad.

I also like being told that I cannot be a feminist because I have a penis!

Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:23 pm 
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fupapack wrote:
so what are some things we can do in our everyday lives to promote feminism and equality?


let people know that ugly/fat/racist/homophobe/transphobe/et al jokes are unacceptable, not just in your presence, but period. there's a gentle way to do it. my common response is along footie's lines: "i don't get it." i also like to say, "i don't think that's funny." and "hm. why do you feel that way?"

don't discount someone's participation because they aren't like you. example: even though i'm not in the sorority girl, hipster, academic, redneck, etc. crowd i should not dismiss someone because they aren't like me. the whole superior one-up-person ship does nothing for the cause. another example: i have a friend that is the complete polar opposite of me: straight, omni, very christian, very republican, loves sarah palin--the whole nine yards. if she knew that there was any chance that i needed her help, for any reason she'd be on the first wal-mart truck to my house to help me, no questions asked.

challenge your own ideas about what you think is beautiful. after many years of trying to undo the brainwashing, i still find myself attracted to WASP ideals of beauty and try to make myself adhere to them. pretty is as pretty does.

recognize there are more than two genders.

attraction rather than promotion.

don't be so politically correct that you close yourself off from having a productive dialogue with others. there's a fine line between someone who is ignorant and someone who is hateful. if they're breathing, there's hope.

if you aren't sure how someone identifies, ask them. the worst possible answer you'll get is "that's none of your business." for personal reasons, i'm fairly closeted about my identity in most social situations, out of protection of myself and family. most people assume i'm straight and female, when the truth is i'm a shape shifter from outer space.

question your own assumptions. i am often challenged by my own stupid assed biases.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:36 pm 
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Being unattractive, it's been my experience people are not nearly as open minded as they think they are. People treat you poorly. I've even had more than one negative experience at Farm Sanctuary events of all places. But I basically ignore it because I'm there for my animals friends. And some people have been very kind to me there.

Plus I'm independent and self supporting.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Teresa, I am very sorry you had to make that experience. That is awful.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:54 pm 
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Besides the obvious conservatives in my life...
I have a couple of friends--ciswomen who identify as lesbian. They constantly berate bisexuality. They'll say things like "I could never date a bisexual because they'll just end up cheating on me." I've told them time and time again that I am offended by that and why, but they never stop. They have asked how I identify and I told them queer. But that "doesn't count" for them. They're also not very trans friendly. They don't even attempt to use the correct pronouns for transfolk. They'll often use the birth-sex pronoun and get annoyed with me when I correct them.

It's so irritating how it just will not penetrate their damn skulls!


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:02 pm 
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Mihl wrote:
Teresa, I am very sorry you had to make that experience. That is awful.



ditto.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:12 pm 
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My dad is a bit of a weird one, he'll challenge my work for woman's refuge, "those woman are so stupid for staying in those relationships..." blah blah, and he'll talk about roles in the family being traditional (my mum was always a stay at home mum) but then he's always treated me super equal. From a very young age he taught me how to fight, in fact I'm still training in martial arts and fighting, he's the first to say that he doesn't like watching me fight, and he doesn't think girls should be, but he's never missed one of mine and he tells me he's super proud of me for doing it. When I was a teenager I was a deckhand on his commercial fishing boats, I've painted and plastered houses with him, built decks and camera and lighting rigs, he's encouraged me to buy a house on my own after he supported me after leaving a toxic relationship and pushed me to focus on my career. basically he has never discouraged me from doing anything I wanted to regardless of gender, in fact I seem to be the exception to most of his gender role ideals, I think he expects me to take a house 'husband' so I can keep winning in my career. When I try and talk feminism he'll always bring up "mens rights" ha ha. Love him so much, he helps me hone my arguments.

Working in Television throws up a few interesting male characters now and then. Although in the studios where I work, it was generally part of the charter in the 70s to hire woman for the more complicated technical roles as they could generally master them the best. Working with my mother in law has helped/shielded me from a lot of bullshiitake, she's this legendary director/producer/vision mixer who has pretty much the whole staff, male and female in awe of her. The latest project I've been producing has been interesting, seems to some that having a female producing televised MMA and Muay Thai is un-nerving ha ha, seems the fact that I've been training for years in Muay Thai and working in film/television for even longer is irrelevant.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Bai wrote:
My dad is a bit of a weird one, he'll challenge my work for woman's refuge, "those woman are so stupid for staying in those relationships..." blah blah, and he'll talk about roles in the family being traditional (my mum was always a stay at home mum) but then he's always treated me super equal. From a very young age he taught me how to fight, in fact I'm still training in martial arts and fighting, he's the first to say that he doesn't like watching me fight, and he doesn't think girls should be, but he's never missed one of mine and he tells me he's super proud of me for doing it. When I was a teenager I was a deckhand on his commercial fishing boats, I've painted and plastered houses with him, built decks and camera and lighting rigs, he's encouraged me to buy a house on my own after he supported me after leaving a toxic relationship and pushed me to focus on my career. basically he has never discouraged me from doing anything I wanted to regardless of gender, in fact I seem to be the exception to most of his gender role ideals, I think he expects me to take a house 'husband' so I can keep winning in my career. When I try and talk feminism he'll always bring up "mens rights" ha ha. Love him so much, he helps me hone my arguments.

Working in Television throws up a few interesting male characters now and then. Although in the studios where I work, it was generally part of the charter in the 70s to hire woman for the more complicated technical roles as they could generally master them the best. Working with my mother in law has helped/shielded me from a lot of bullshiitake, she's this legendary director/producer/vision mixer who has pretty much the whole staff, male and female in awe of her. The latest project I've been producing has been interesting, seems to some that having a female producing televised MMA and Muay Thai is un-nerving ha ha, seems the fact that I've been training for years in Muay Thai and working in film/television for even longer is irrelevant.


This is off topic, but your life sounds really, really interesting!!


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:03 pm 
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every day in my office building. sometimes it's as little as men waiting for you to get on the elevator.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:06 pm 
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matwinser wrote:
My favourite anti-feminist was Mrs Thatcher who (allegedly) said that she didn't owe any debt to feminism.

So no debt for being able to even vote let alone run the country?

I am with Jewbacca though, the anti-trans sentiment and the whole womyn born womym policy makes me really sad.

I also like being told that I cannot be a feminist because I have a penis!

Mat.


The loudest groups at every pro-choice march I attended in the early 90's were the gay men. Yes, screaming, chanting groups of gay men out demanding reproductive rights for women. Tell those people to suck it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:22 pm 
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graffitipassion wrote:
Bai wrote:
My dad is a bit of a weird one, he'll challenge my work for woman's refuge, "those woman are so stupid for staying in those relationships..." blah blah, and he'll talk about roles in the family being traditional (my mum was always a stay at home mum) but then he's always treated me super equal. From a very young age he taught me how to fight, in fact I'm still training in martial arts and fighting, he's the first to say that he doesn't like watching me fight, and he doesn't think girls should be, but he's never missed one of mine and he tells me he's super proud of me for doing it. When I was a teenager I was a deckhand on his commercial fishing boats, I've painted and plastered houses with him, built decks and camera and lighting rigs, he's encouraged me to buy a house on my own after he supported me after leaving a toxic relationship and pushed me to focus on my career. basically he has never discouraged me from doing anything I wanted to regardless of gender, in fact I seem to be the exception to most of his gender role ideals, I think he expects me to take a house 'husband' so I can keep winning in my career. When I try and talk feminism he'll always bring up "mens rights" ha ha. Love him so much, he helps me hone my arguments.

Working in Television throws up a few interesting male characters now and then. Although in the studios where I work, it was generally part of the charter in the 70s to hire woman for the more complicated technical roles as they could generally master them the best. Working with my mother in law has helped/shielded me from a lot of bullshiitake, she's this legendary director/producer/vision mixer who has pretty much the whole staff, male and female in awe of her. The latest project I've been producing has been interesting, seems to some that having a female producing televised MMA and Muay Thai is un-nerving ha ha, seems the fact that I've been training for years in Muay Thai and working in film/television for even longer is irrelevant.


This is off topic, but your life sounds really, really interesting!!


Thanks! Interesting is a word that can be used... I usually go with hectic, stressful and mad ha ha! Get to meet and work with some great people tho, wouldn't change any of it :)


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:48 am 
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matwinser wrote:

I am with Jewbacca though, the anti-trans sentiment and the whole womyn born womym policy makes me really sad.

I also like being told that I cannot be a feminist because I have a penis!

Mat.


I'm also with Jewy on that one.
As well, a close friend of mine is constantly making excuses for her male partner - she'll whinge about how he never does any housework, and in the same breath excuse it with "Yeah, but he's a man, he just doesn't get it".
It makes me really sad that she doesn't know any feminist men - our mutual friends are all hippie/alternative types, the types who aren't especially radical about gender or queer stuff, but are really into the environmental movement. I can't stand being part of that community anymore (hasn't exactly been an easy place to come out as trans with all the subtle cissexism and gender essentialism), so I don't spend time with them, and have since found many lovely feminist male friends who are awesome role models in working through my own internalised (and occasionally externalised, although I am trying) misogyny, particularly as a trans guy.
Anyway, this particular friend seems to think that men cannot be feminists, and has felt particularly betrayed by my transition, because apparently she "hates men" (she's in a relationship with one and tells me that although she's frustrated with him, she "loves him to death"), and they are the "dark side"..... then goes on about how I "used to be such a strong woman". Ugh. I am the same person, I'm just a bit more self-aware! The things I believe about women's bodies still apply, it's just that I don't happen to have a woman's body!

So yeah. I find that pretty challenging. My way of dealing with it is to patiently explain yet again that I see things pretty differently to her, with regards to sex and gender, and go over non-binary stuff and non-gender essentialist stuff for the umpteenth time. Or get indignant on her behalf when she mentions yet another way that her partner has failed to be an ally to women/her personally, and remind her that she shouldn't have to put up with that crepe.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:49 pm 
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apparently i'm a huge bisque because i have to ride a synapse (a kind of road bike) and i dare complain about it because my male coworker gets to ride a supersix (another kind of road bike which has more aggressive geometry and is more fun to ride in my opinion. when i asked my manager straight out told me it was because he was a boy and i was a woman.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:42 am 
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During a final crit, one of my classmates was talking about how she wanted to address certain issues that were viewed as feminist, but she "didn't want to be seen as a feminist"

WHY THE BALLS NOT?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:46 am 
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Second Wave feminism challenges my feminism. I find most of it so repugnant that I have a difficult time reconciling my feminism with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:46 pm 
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i had a heart to heart with a coworker and he pretty much agreed with all i had to say about the sexism in the shop but then discounted it all with "don't you think that we all have to deal with something". le sigh.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:07 pm 
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ha ha. I would consider myself second wave.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:39 pm 
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Perhaps we should define what we mean by second wave?

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