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 Post subject: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:04 am 
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Another dooring resulting in a cyclist's death. At least this time the driver was ticketed for the unsafe exit of his vehicle/not looking before opening his door, but there are still no laws whatsoever that allow police to place any kind of responsibility of the cyclist's death onto the driver. The city is doing this bike infrastructure thing kind of totally backwards. Aside from on the avenues I generally just avoid bike lanes in Manhattan, and even the ones on the avenues can be pretty bad, mostly because of people going the wrong way, and on 1st ave because there's a truck parked in it at every intersection.

http://gothamist.com/2010/10/22/cyclist ... harlem.php


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:02 pm 
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That is just horrible and heartbreaking.

I wonder who keeps track of the number of bike accidents and related fatalities, because it definitely seems like there are too many people dying as a result of drivers not being aware of the fact that they have to share the roads with bicyclists.

In order to be prosecuted for the death, the driver has to have done something fairly egregious - beyond merely opening a door into traffic (although that is against the law) - like being intoxicated or leaving the scene of the crime - to have any charges pressed against them. It seems unfair, because if it were more heavily penalized, I imagine drivers would be incentivized to pay attention to cyclists.

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Last edited by Tofulish on Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:22 pm 
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Oh man. How many cyclists need to die before something changes?


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Wow. It's almost like people driving cars know they don't have to be careful not to kill someone because they know they won't be held accountable.

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
I wonder who keeps track of the number of bike accidents and related fatalities


This is a good question and I would guess that it depends on the municipality as to whether these accidents just get lumped with other sorts of collisions. In LA the Los Angeles Bicycle Coalition is an activist group for cyclists and made huge waves a year or so ago when a car went out of its way to injure a rider. I believe they played a key role in getting real charges pressed against the driver.

I don't know about an NYC coalition but I would be very surprised if there wasn't one.

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:41 pm 
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This is awful.
On the topic of bicycle advocacy groups and dooring, here in Denver one of the more mainstream cycling groups ran a radio ad reminding drivers they should look before they open their doors. Because if they don't, they might hit a cyclist and that could make their car look ugly. And be expensive. I get that it was supposed to be humorous, but there was no mention that drivers could, you know, kill a person, because they're not paying attention.
So much education for drivers is just a happy "share the road" message, without the acknowledgment they could very easily kill or maim a person because they're busy or lazy or feel entitled to the whole road.


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:02 pm 
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Sad!

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:16 pm 
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This is terribly sad. People should look before they open their car doors. But how many times have you gotten out of a car without doing so? The streets can't accomodate so many cars, bicycles, and pedestrians. I would never ever bike in Manhattan (outside of the park, obviously).


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:23 am 
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My dad destroyed our car door and nearly died by not looking before he opened his door once. It's not just bikes cars can hit by dooring... they can be dangerous to people themselves and people STILL don't look... *hiss*

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:46 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
That is just horrible and heartbreaking.

I wonder who keeps track of the number of bike accidents and related fatalities, because it definitely seems like there are too many people dying as a result of drivers not being aware of the fact that they have to share the roads with bicyclists.

In order to be prosecuted for the death, the driver has to have done something fairly egregious - beyond merely opening a door into traffic (although that is against the law) - like being intoxicated or leaving the scene of the crime - to have any charges pressed against them. It seems unfair, because if it were more heavily penalized, I imagine drivers would be incentivized to pay attention to cyclists.


The woman who doored the girl in Brooklyn on Atlantic Ave. actually did leave the scene and she still wasn't charged.


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:08 am 
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My dream last night was about this thread!!! I think I was some kind of no-dooring activist, and it was totally awesome. I know I've changed my views about this issue thanks to this thread and the last one, and I do think there should be stricter laws for drivers. Its easy for us to forget how easily our cars can kill, and knowing we could serve jail time is a great reminder to simply look both ways before doing anything.


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:49 am 
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rocklobster wrote:
I know I've changed my views about this issue thanks to this thread and the last one, and I do think there should be stricter laws for drivers. Its easy for us to forget how easily our cars can kill, and knowing we could serve jail time is a great reminder to simply look both ways before doing anything.

Same here. I can't say I've ever checked before opening my door before reading what you guys had to say. Thanks for making me a more careful person!

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:19 pm 
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My friend was doored yesterday in Philly. She was knocked onto the ground. Luckily, she just has some bruises and is okay overall.


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:11 pm 
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I came so close to getting doored downtown this summer I had to stop my bike and let my nerves bust and cry over it to be at all functional. Its terrifying because I watch the insides of cars as much as I can and I still nearly got doored. I don't ride downtown anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:43 pm 
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panda wrote:
The woman who doored the girl in Brooklyn on Atlantic Ave. actually did leave the scene and she still wasn't charged.

I know, but I think that is because (1) she was the person who called 9-11, (2) she left her car parked and didn't drive off, and (3) she claims she didn't cause the accident (she says that the accident happened next to her and that her opening the door had nothing to do with Jasmine Herron being killed) so it will be a question as to whether she could have reasonably believed that she didn't when she left the scene. Plus, she was pretty easily identifiable, unlike a classic hit and run, where the driver immediately leaves the scene.

So sorry Nickalya.

Also: from Jasmine Herron's mother: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/201 ... ourse.html

Quote:
Wendy Clouse is teaming up with state Sen. Eric Adams to create a proposed Jasmine Herron Law. It would change the state's required five-hour driver education class to include lessons on how to deal with bikers, skateboarders and other users of alternative transportation.

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:36 am 
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I've had a lot of close calls lately, it's very scary.


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Nickalya wrote:
My dad destroyed our car door and nearly died by not looking before he opened his door once. It's not just bikes cars can hit by dooring... they can be dangerous to people themselves and people STILL don't look... *hiss*


This is what kind of blows my mind. I've never lived in a bike friendly city, mostly I've lived in the suburbs, but I've always been taught that you do not open your car door into traffic without looking first. It is a personal safety risk (in addition to the very real danger it clearly can cause others). I've been absentminded and swung my door open without looking, but I usually realize I've done it and feel like a dunce.

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:44 pm 
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ismloveyoubobbybrown wrote:
Nickalya wrote:
My dad destroyed our car door and nearly died by not looking before he opened his door once. It's not just bikes cars can hit by dooring... they can be dangerous to people themselves and people STILL don't look... *hiss*


This is what kind of blows my mind. I've never lived in a bike friendly city, mostly I've lived in the suburbs, but I've always been taught that you do not open your car door into traffic without looking first. It is a personal safety risk (in addition to the very real danger it clearly can cause others). I've been absentminded and swung my door open without looking, but I usually realize I've done it and feel like a dunce.

my grandma got her cadillac door knocked off by a bus in nyc. i laugh thinking about it, but its probably not realyl a funny story.


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:26 pm 
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aaaaaaaaaand I just got doored. Sort of. the door hit the side of my arm as I went by and pushed me. Had the person opened their door just a fraction of a second earlier I would have smashed my face into their window. It gave me a complete heart attack and I also experienced the post extreme close call panic attack/crying.....and I'm a pretty tough cookie, but shiitake that was scary.


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:27 pm 
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And I screamed as it was happening, involuntarily, just a really loud yelp 'cause it scared me. I can't believe I didn't pee my pants, probably because I forgot to eat and drink water today.


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:57 pm 
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panda wrote:
And I screamed as it was happening, involuntarily, just a really loud yelp 'cause it scared me. I can't believe I didn't pee my pants, probably because I forgot to eat and drink water today.

aww! im glad you didnt have to ride home with pee pants too. how did the driver respond? hows your arm?


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:01 pm 
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rocklobster wrote:
panda wrote:
And I screamed as it was happening, involuntarily, just a really loud yelp 'cause it scared me. I can't believe I didn't pee my pants, probably because I forgot to eat and drink water today.

aww! im glad you didnt have to ride home with pee pants too. how did the driver respond? hows your arm?


he gave a really weak "sorry". my arm is fine, I really just barely missed it, it just touched me really, I can't believe how unbelievably close that was. I've had so many close calls lately it's ridiculous, and I rarely am in the dooring zone even. I'm also glad I didn't pee my pants because i was actually on my way to meet up with a client of mine, would have been embarraaaasssiiiing! I think it probably played out really fast and my adrenaline kicked in so I'm probably not remembering the whole thing. I saw it open really quickly and I think it was a mixture of lucky timing with where I was and I probably also managed to swerve a little bit, but I really didn't have any room, I was between a line of cars waiting at a light and parked cars, the door took up almost that whole space, it was a big SUV/minivan.....it was in the hassidic neighborhood, so of course it was a minivan/suv. (and don't get all p.c. and call me anti-semitic, the minivan/suv thing is just a fact of life in that neighborhood so yeah, and my family is half jewish, i've spent many a christmas with a menorah in one window and a christmas tree in the other and x-mas day is almost always spent at the movies and in a chinese restaurant and it's the best ever!)


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:16 pm 
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yikes, panda, close one!


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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:55 pm 
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So awful :(.

I was hit by a car while riding my bike about 2 months ago. Not only did they drive away, but not ONE person offered to help me. To make things worse, I always carry a water bottle, and the force of the crash crunched it- I was soaked. At the time, I was training to run my first full marathon (now 20 days away...). I was doing amazing... and haven't been able to run since (my knee was destroyed). Thanks for ruining my dream, red van.

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 Post subject: Re: another cyclist doored & killed in NYC
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:27 pm 
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panda wrote:
.....it was in the hassidic neighborhood, so of course it was a minivan/suv. (and don't get all p.c. and call me anti-semitic, the minivan/suv thing is just a fact of life in that neighborhood so yeah, and my family is half jewish, i've spent many a christmas with a menorah in one window and a christmas tree in the other and x-mas day is almost always spent at the movies and in a chinese restaurant and it's the best ever!)


Honestly...if you're going to qualify it, people are going to get reasonable on you. Why wouldn't you just say it was a minivan and leave it at that?

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