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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:07 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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alden wrote:
pickledtreats wrote:
Statistically based on the population of Norway, this loss is the equivalent of the U.S. losing more than twice the amount of people it did on 9/11. It's terrible.


Every life is a life in and of itself but that really does add some perspective to it. Such horrible horrible news.


I hope people understand I'm not saying this is more or less terrible based on the numbers. I just wanted to offer some perspective that Americans could identify with given the loss the country suffered on 9/11. This would be like two, death count-wise.


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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:42 am 
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pickledtreats wrote:
alden wrote:
pickledtreats wrote:
Statistically based on the population of Norway, this loss is the equivalent of the U.S. losing more than twice the amount of people it did on 9/11. It's terrible.


Every life is a life in and of itself but that really does add some perspective to it. Such horrible horrible news.


I hope people understand I'm not saying this is more or less terrible based on the numbers. I just wanted to offer some perspective that Americans could identify with given the loss the country suffered on 9/11. This would be like two, death count-wise.


No worries, I at least didn't take it that way at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:11 am 
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The articles linked to in the article I posted are worth some reads, too. Especially the Salon.com article.


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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:54 am 
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that was a great article, thank you for pointing out the salon article, I would have missed it otherwise - The omnipotence of Al Qaeda and meaninglessness of "Terrorism"

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:03 am 
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raspberrycomplaint wrote:
This is just so incredibly horrible and heartbreaking, and the saddest part is that it isn't even surprising anymore.


This.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:23 pm 
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When the news broke (before we knew who was responsible), I made the all-too common mistake of reading the comments on an MSNBC article. One commenter said "It's time for a mass deportation of all Muslims from Europe!" or something along those lines. Turns out he had a lot more in common with the shooter/bomber than he thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:10 pm 
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pannkakan wrote:
Worth thinking about:

It didn't take more than a minute after the first news, before people started talking about what islamistic organisation was behind this. But when it was obvious that it was a white right-wing man, the discussion turned into one about a lonely maniac. Everyone stopped discussing politics.

This is a political act. It's one of the worst things done to the working class movement since forever, and it must be seen as such and action against right wing movements and facism must be taken.

If it's any, consolation (that is absolutely the wrong word), I listened to NPR and BBC all day today and the political dimension was basically all they talked about. I was remarkably impressed by how they DIDN'T minimize this to be the work of a crazy person (though, I can't imagine anyone killing kids to tangentially make a political statement as being anything but batshit forking crazy, though I happen to think fascism and racism are pretty forking horrific in and of themselves). I know they supposedly have this lefty bent, but at least someone is talking about it.

I am so incredibly heartbroken that this happened, and I agree that fascism constitutes a real threat.
I think that it ultimately compounds Islamic extremism because that kind of hate going back and forth ultimately builds up, and intolerance and hate in the West is something we need to be held accountable for and fight.

Where do some people lose the reality that we're all people? That killing solves nothing?

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:31 am 
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Most news outlets, even NPR and BBC, went with the Islamic terrorism insinuations for a while before backtracking and changing their stories completely after news emerged that the shooter was Norwegian, white, and not Muslim. The only people I saw restraining themselves from making this assumption were the Norwegian officials who I thought practiced a lot of restrain in "not jumping to conclusions" about anything. I'm impressed that the analysis of this story and how it relates to the U.S. idea of terrorism = extreme Islam has gotten so far into the mainstream media. Hopefully this conversation will continue.


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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:38 am 
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Its digusting, revolting, un-human. He wanted to make a name for himself, so I say we all forget him, forget his name, if we have to call him something, we should call him pathetic


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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:03 am 
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When it came out that Breivik was a Christian fundamentalist and believes himself to be in a war against Islam (Breivik’s lawyer accordingly proclaimed him insane in BBC press), I was immediately reminded of the right-wing fundie Christian groups here in the US. To me, the shootings in Norway are all too familiar to my worst fears about our own situation. Sigh. For all the chatter about the scary "Muslim Other," I put it to anyone that, why should they be solely afraid of Islamists? The Christianists are just as scary!

I am so sorry to have to welcome your country to the horrors of "homegrown terrorism," Norway. (:^(



Also, with regards to the photo taken of Breivik in transport: I really don’t like the smug smirk on that bigot's face.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:24 am 
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And Glenn Beck's reasoned and informed comments:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/glenn-beck-norway-camp-sounds-a-little-like-the-hitler-youth/2011/07/26/gIQArUGoaI_blog.html

When will someone cockpunch him to death.

Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:27 am 
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matwinser wrote:


Why does this guy still have a platform?

Yeah, who would run a political camp for kids besides the Hitler Youth? Oh, the Tea Party.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:30 am 
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I know, that has been mentioned in at least one commentary!

Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Nazi card. Nazi card. Nazi card. Is the Third Reich the only history that Glenn Beck knows? Sheesh!

Oh wait, I forgot Stalin is sometimes added in for variety. After all, gotta get those commies in there somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:27 pm 
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stolen from another forum, due to the dimensions I can't post the pictures but I'll put links instead (memorials and gatherings):

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6012/5975395339_0c88fc0d2d_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6127/5976122886_64023d70d9_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6023/5975419051_a9e75471f8_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6009/5975356957_e7feb07f90_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6001/5975902186_9a14f6cd0a_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6020/5976264150_b1b4f970e4_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6029/5975910646_5316913b53_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6129/5975914142_4091a72949_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6009/5975641591_68774295c0_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6130/5976025700_8dabca87f6_b.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6020/5976203576_de6960acaa_b.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Hey, this is neat: http://talkaboutequality.wordpress.com/ ... ly-happen/

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By this point, most of you have heard about the tragedy in Norway a few weeks ago when a Christian Fundamentalist* murdered 77** people and injured another 96. ... What you probably have not heard about is the married lesbian couple who rescued 40 teenagers during and after the bloody event.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Thanks for posting that, Brandy! I posted to my FB. What a heroic and inspiring story!

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:47 pm 
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I attended the funeral of one of the victims today. There were five funerals on different locations today. There will be twenty funerals this friday.


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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:21 am 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9496330/Anders-Breivik-declared-sane-live.html

He was declared sane and faces a maximum of 21 years in prison. If he is/was truly sane at the time of the killings, 21 years seems like an absurdly short jail time. That's 3.3 months per victim. How are Norway prisons when it comes to rehabilitation/recidivism rates?

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:34 am 
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norway has VERY low recidivism rates. their prison system is overwhelmingly very good. fact is, they have a very low murder and violent crime rate, so they do not have the mechanisms to deal with a crime of this level. 21 years does not mean he'll be out in 21 though. there are plenty of options to keep him in past that time if he continues to pose a risk, and seeing how he was found sane and is unrepentant, chances are he will remain in prison long afterwards. it doesn't bother me... 21 years isn't a long time, but there isn't any way to put a value on a human life either. as long as they aren't letting him out when he is still a danger to society, i can't get too upset about the initial sentence. fact is, more than three times as long, 77 years, would only be one year per victim, right? that's not a fair punishment for taking a human life either.


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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:32 pm 
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alden wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9496330/Anders-Breivik-declared-sane-live.html

He was declared sane and faces a maximum of 21 years in prison. If he is/was truly sane at the time of the killings, 21 years seems like an absurdly short jail time. That's 3.3 months per victim. How are Norway prisons when it comes to rehabilitation/recidivism rates?

From what I understand, Norway does not have an automatic "life" sentence. 21 years is the maximum that can be passed. But, like Littlebird says, there are a range of options they can take to keep him in longer than that. Various Norwegian commentators on the BBC news tonight seemed to think that he will likely never be released.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:39 am 
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I like this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world ... wanted=all
Obviously a very different attitude to it all than what the US reaction would be.

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 Post subject: Re: Norway
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:07 pm 
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pandacookie wrote:
I like this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world ... wanted=all
Obviously a very different attitude to it all than what the US reaction would be.

Exactly my thoughts. I think they handled it pretty well considering the symbolic relevance the whole thing had/has for Norway.


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