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 Post subject: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:51 pm 
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Now that I have a bit of spare money I thought it would be a good idea to get Orion on a healthier food (a brand of kibble made mostly of meat and vegetables, with no corn). Well, we're on day 3, and he's been producing so. Much. Poop. I didn't think it was even possible for a dog that size to poop that much.

I haven't changed his feeding schedule (twice a day right after walks) or quantities (about half a cup per meal). I have been walking him 4 times a day (8 am, 2 pm, 6pm and just before bed, around midnight - the 2pm walk is new) and he still has enough poop left for one or two big accidents at night. It's not diarrhea, although it's a bit less solid than before. It's just a massive amount. He used to poop once or twice a day only.

Is it normal?? When does it stop?? I'm fed up of mopping the house so goddam much. Any tips or suggestions on how to deal with it in the meantime, or solve this faster? Is the better diet worth the hassle? If I crate him overnight, is he going to explode?

(I know a lot of you feed your dog veg or vegan food, but it's not an option for me at this point. There is no vegan kibble in this country, and I'd love to feed Orion home cooked food but these days I don't even have time to cook my own dinners).


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Did you slowly transfer him to his new food? If the switch was sudden, that could definitely account for the poop! Some dogs are more sensitive than others and need a very slow transition, starting off with just a few kibbles of the new food and gradually increasing the new and decreasing the old over a period of several weeks. You might want to get him back on his old diet, and try again. If after several weeks, he is still having problems, there may just be something in the new food that he can't tolerate.

Do you give probiotics to him? We keep all the shelter dogs on them, and I think it helps. We do have to switch their food often (depending on what's donated), but with the probiotics and slowly switching foods, they mostly do okay.

For now, if he is having accidents at night, you can try feeding him just once early in the day, and hopefully it will be out of his system by nighttime. Pumpkin puree is good for firming up stools, if you can get it.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Thank you RC! To transfer him I poured maybe 3 or 4 day's worth of his old kibble into the new bag, so he's been eating a mix of both, really. Maybe that wasn't slow enough.

What kind of probiotics can I give him? Can I give him human grade probiotics,or do they have to be specifically for a dog's intestinal flora? Again, not sure if I could find dog supplements. If I want to find cute clothes for my dog or product to dye his ears pinks, that's in every convenience store, but when it comes to keeping him healthy and well exercised, it's really hard to find. Urgh.

Would it be cruel / ineffective for me to crate Orion at night? He is crate trained, although I rarely close the gate - he just likes to hang out in the crate. When people suggest to crate your dog for house training, it's typically when the dog doesn't understand yet where it's appropriate to go, not that they fail to hold it back, right?


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Which food are you feeding?

I don't think crating is cruel but if he cries and is having stomach problems I would definitely get up and let him out during the night or you will have a crate & dog mess because he will have no choice but to lay in it.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Yeah, you can use human probiotics on dogs. They use the same strains in both the dog and human supplements, usually acidophilus and a few others. Just use a smaller dosage.

I wouldn't crate him if he is having uncontrollable poops. Crate training works because dogs don't want to soil their sleeping area, and if he can't hold it and has to go in his crate it might be upsetting to him (not to mention he wouldn't be able to get away, so he'd be forced to stand/lie in it). Is it possible to cordon off part of a room, or have him in a small room like the bathroom, and just put newspapers down on the floor? That way if he did have an accident, it would be easier to clean.

I hope Orion feels better soon!


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Kweldon wrote:
Which food are you feeding?


It's a domestic brand called Woongja Natural Food. Here's the beginning of the ingredient list:
Human grade chicken, chicken meal, white rice, chicken fat, brown rice, fish meal, brewers' yeast, flax seed, beet pulp, and then a big list of vitamin supplements, mineral supplements, enzymes and probiotics.

ETA: it's manufactured by these guys: www.artemiscompany.com/ although it's not the same product as what is sold in the US.

Yeah, cleaning the crate would be much worse than cleaning the floor. Scratch that idea. He doesn't make too much of a mess (well, apart from the poop on the floor, obviously) but he does enjoy eating poop if he can get away with it. Yech. I will try feeding him a bigger meal in the morning and a minimal amount in the evening (he gets upset if the meal routine is disturbed, but as long as something ends up in his bowl he's fine) and see about probiotics. Thank you guys!


Last edited by aelle on Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:18 pm 
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So another question. Another big change in our lives is that Wally moved away (to Europe, for work). Do dogs ever act out on things like that? Could the soiling the house be in protest or distress of not seeing his other master, somehow? Or am I anthropomorphizing here?


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Yes dogs can act out. My maltese does occasionally. But in your case it sounds like he doesn't have control since it's more than usual and softer than usual.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Btw, I switched to Blue Buffalo last year and my dogs' coats looks much better and we haven't had any bowel problems.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Oh man. When we switched to a pricier, limited ingredient diet, my bigger dog pooped constantly. It was like, seriously dude?! How is it even possible that you are producing that much poop! It took a few weeks for him to stop pooping around the clock, but he stills goes way more than he used to when he was on cheaper filler-food. I seriously don't know what I would do if I had a job outside the house! I feel like it's a full time job to keep the poop outdoors.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:31 pm 
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PlushLifeGirl wrote:
Oh man. When we switched to a pricier, limited ingredient diet, my bigger dog pooped constantly. It was like, seriously dude?! How is it even possible that you are producing that much poop! It took a few weeks for him to stop pooping around the clock, but he stills goes way more than he used to when he was on cheaper filler-food. I seriously don't know what I would do if I had a job outside the house! I feel like it's a full time job to keep the poop outdoors.


Oh no. The first part sounds exactly like what I am experiencing. But I do have a job (although I get to work from home maybe 50% of the time). If the poop trend maintains itself... it might be an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:47 pm 
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aelle, I hope I didn't scare you! I would say my dog is pooping about 3-4 times a day now, whereas at first he was just a poop factory. Then again, he's older (12) and has completely changed his eating schedule and now demands to be fed earlier now. (The Early Bird special!) Hopefully your pup will become used to the new diet and the frequency will taper off.

It's funny that the PPK even has a dog poop thread!


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:55 pm 
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PlushLifeGirl wrote:
aelle, I hope I didn't scare you! I would say my dog is pooping about 3-4 times a day now, whereas at first he was just a poop factory. Then again, he's older (12) and has completely changed his eating schedule and now demands to be fed earlier now. (The Early Bird special!) Hopefully your pup will become used to the new diet and the frequency will taper off.

It's funny that the PPK even has a dog poop thread!

Did you cut down on the amount you're feeding? The higher quality the food, the less you have to feed. Occasionally we get super rich grain-free foods at the shelter, and we always have to be slow with the transition and cut the feeding amounts way down.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:06 pm 
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raspberrycomplaint, yes, I did cut down on the amount. He loves this new food but it seems like he's hungry again a few hours after his dinner so I let him have a little more. Of course, "let him have" is a nice way of saying he flips out until he gets more. He does get a ton of exercise, though, especially for an older dog.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:27 am 
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raspberrycomplaint wrote:
Yeah, you can use human probiotics on dogs. They use the same strains in both the dog and human supplements, usually acidophilus and a few others. Just use a smaller dosage.


Pretty sure I remember my professor telling me that this isn't the case and that feeding something like human probiotic yogurt wont have too much effect on a dog because the strains aren't exactly the same. This was last year though and I have no hope of finding the scribbled notes that i wrote at the time so what i said might be wrong. I know a lot of dog probiotics contain enterococcus faecium which certainly isnt in the human supplements.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:23 am 
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We had the same problem with Zane a few months ago as we were trying out different foods to find one he could tolerate. He eventually wound up on one that sounds a lot like the one you're using (minus the fish) but we took the huge volume of poop and occasional accidents with the other kibbles to mean that he wasn't tolerating the new foods well (the volume means that the dog isn't holding the food in his large intestine, it's just coming out after going through the small intestine). It's not clear to me whether it was because we were trying to switch him too fast (over the course of a week) or if there were ingredients in the foods that didn't sit well with him.

We switched him to a homemade diet for about a month to get his poops back in order (mixed brown and white rice, chicken (thighs and liver), pumpkin, peas and carrots, and vegedog supplements) and then really slowly introduced his kibble (it took about 2 weeks to get him to just kibble, rice and veggies and then another 2 weeks to get to just kibble and veggies). Now he gets kibble, a little canned meat and veggies and his pooping is good (twice a day, no accidents).

I'd either go back to your old kibble or switch to a bland diet for a while to let his digestive system get back to normal. Then try switching his food much more slowly. If he still has a bad reaction, I'd try a different type of kibble.


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:56 pm 
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I really wish I could remember where I found it so I could link it, but I read an extensive article about dog food (and the animal testing that goes with the industry) quite a while ago, and one of the things it pointed out was that the nutrient and fiber levels in commercial dog food are deliberately manipulated by producers to keep dog poop (1) smallish and dry, and (2) once or twice daily. They engineer the food that way so that humans only have to walk their dogs once or twice a day, and the poop is easy to clean up.

So depending on which brands of food you were using and what you're using now, your dog's digestion may be undergoing a pretty big adjustment just on that basis alone.

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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:07 pm 
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hannahkate wrote:
raspberrycomplaint wrote:
Yeah, you can use human probiotics on dogs. They use the same strains in both the dog and human supplements, usually acidophilus and a few others. Just use a smaller dosage.


Pretty sure I remember my professor telling me that this isn't the case and that feeding something like human probiotic yogurt wont have too much effect on a dog because the strains aren't exactly the same. This was last year though and I have no hope of finding the scribbled notes that i wrote at the time so what i said might be wrong. I know a lot of dog probiotics contain enterococcus faecium which certainly isnt in the human supplements.

The "dog probiotics" we use at work have the exact strains as most human probio supplements. The only one I've seen with enterococcus faecium is Purina's fortiflora, sold through vets, which I have heard negative things about (knowing the "quality" of Purina's food, this doesn't surprise me!). For a while, we were in contact with a support group for owners with dogs suffering from exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, and most of them swore by human probios, acidophilus specifically.

There really hasn't been much research of probiotic use in dogs, so I think it's just one of those "try it and see if it works for your pet" type of things. We have used it for a few years with the shelter dogs, with success. When we run out of the probiotics, the poop situation definitely gets worse!


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:19 pm 
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zensquiggle wrote:
I really wish I could remember where I found it so I could link it, but I read an extensive article about dog food (and the animal testing that goes with the industry) quite a while ago, and one of the things it pointed out was that the nutrient and fiber levels in commercial dog food are deliberately manipulated by producers to keep dog poop (1) smallish and dry, and (2) once or twice daily. They engineer the food that way so that humans only have to walk their dogs once or twice a day, and the poop is easy to clean up.

So depending on which brands of food you were using and what you're using now, your dog's digestion may be undergoing a pretty big adjustment just on that basis alone.


Yes, I read about that too. That's partly why I wanted to put him on a healthier food.

It's 8am, and there was no poop in the house tonight, guys!


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:27 pm 
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Woohoo for normal poop!


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:06 pm 
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An update, because who doesn't want to hear about my dog's poop!
We're definitely over the hump. Orion's poop is almost firm again, and on a much more manageable schedule. I should be able to put him back on his normal meal schedule soon.
Thanks all!


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Hooray for normal poops!


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:36 am 
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I'm so looking forward to shipping him here, changing his food and situation combined.
It's going to be awesome!


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 Post subject: Re: New dog food & stggering amount of poop
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:45 am 
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Oy, spammers, why are they so interested in my dog's poop?


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