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 Post subject: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:07 am 
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http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... for-330000

Hooray, this shiitake will save the world. And yes, I'd totally eat it. Maybe not this particular strain though.


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:36 am 
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I think it's great IF people actually eat it. Honestly, I can't see how lab grown meat is more gross than traditional agriculture, but it's one of those things that defies logic. I wouldn't eat it, but I get icked out by current vegan options that are too meat-like, so vat meat would so not work for me. If they could perfectly copy butter along with all it's browning and cooking properties I would be all over that shiitake. Which brings me to this neat part of the article:
Quote:
"If there is a vegetable-derived product that can take away the human being's craving for meat, that would be preferable," Post said.

Stanford University biochemist Patrick Brown says he's working on precisely that kind of stuff, and it could be on the market in the next year or so.

"We have a class of products that just totally rocks and cannot be distinguished from the animal-based product it replaces, even by hardcore foodies," he said. He promised that his plant-based alternatives to meat and dairy products would be tasty, nutritious — and profitable.


I would be interested to see how many current vegans would make the switch and how this will eventually change our understanding and definition of what it means to be vegetarian/vegan. Oh, and how to make sure stores and restaurants aren't mislabeling conventional meat as vat meat!


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:23 pm 
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I think this could make a major improvement if meat-eaters like it, but I wonder how long until it's as affordable and desired as "real" meat. I think that it's a good idea? But it also sort of creeps me out. I don't think I would eat, but I suppose this could possibly be a really good thing? I don't know, I'm confused.


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:41 pm 
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We have to come with a name for people who eat only lab meat. I mean, people whose only meat they eat is lab meat.

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Vatarian?

I think lab-grown meat grosses me out just as much as animal meat. But for different reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:48 pm 
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It still feels like a ton of money to invest in technology that isn't going to be commercially available for 10 years. Plus what are they going to grow the cloned cells on? It may bbe more efficient than cows in turning plant matter into animal matter, but in essence aren't you just doing the same thing? Why not just eat the plants :)

Also, even if cloned meat has some associated decrease in long term animal suffering, it is still likely going to be tested on animals etc.

I'd rather just stay vegan, and spend the money to educate people on the damage meat is doing to the planet and making great plant-based alternatives,but I am sure vat meat has its place... Esp if meat producers and corn growers no longer get subsidies from the government...

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:50 pm 
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veganna wrote:
Vatarian?


Yes!

Also, just think of all the fun conversations those of us who choose to avoid it will have.

"Here, have a burger"
"No thanks, I'm vegan."
"It's okay, just leave off the cheese, it's vat-meat!"

Eh, at least it won't be the happy cow argument anymore. In all seriousness, I do hope this picks up because as world demand for meat increases, that means bad things all around, both for animal suffering and the environment. Even if they can only get ground beef to work, that's a huge step up. Besides, it can't be any grosser than the crepe fast food places serve now.


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:07 pm 
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IsaChandra wrote:
We have to come with a name for people who eat only lab meat. I mean, people whose only meat they eat is lab meat.

Labivore?


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Labradores

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Labradores


Win.

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Let's work on the Willy Wonka 3-course dinner gum first, okay SCIENCE?


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Skip the lab meat idea. People are not going to eat it. Adoption certainly won’t be fast. We already have reasonable meat analogs and people aren’t eating those to the degrees that they should.

What scientists should be working on are lab grown animal products that are inexpensive and environmentally friendly but that no one needs to put into their mouth. Products people wouldn’t be weirded out by because it doesn’t have to pass a full sensory test including taste and smell, and eschews the intimate matter of health and nutrition.

Leather
Pleather just isn’t cutting it and swapping plastic for organic material isn’t an ideal tradeoff. Massive, perfect sheets of lab grown leather has tremendous economic potential and design flexibility over animal skins rife with carcass damage, odd shapes, and non-uniformity. You could grow leathers in different colors, no need for dye. Lab leather could be more natural than animal leather since it could theoretically be engineered to textile specifications without dyes or treatment chemicals.

Wool
Synthetics aren’t cutting it; again, the issue with biodegradability, and the properties aren’t the same. Can’t we grow hair in test tubes already? Dump in some organic inputs, grow sheets of wool in whatever quality you desire. Lab grown cashmere? Why not? No one would care about wearing it so long as it felt wonderful.

Feathers/Down
Bedding. Jackets. If we can grow hair, we should be able to grow feathers. Synthetic down isn’t quite the same and if you could grow feathers where no one could tell the difference when stuffed into a sack or jacket, you’re golden. You probably wouldn’t even need to label lab down, no one would care so long as they were warm and comfy.

Fur
Could be problematic because if lab fur became cheap and ubiquitous, it would encourage the demand for real fur. For the most part, most consumers don’t own a lot of fur but would probably jump all over a lab grown option. Adoption of viable lab fur would have to accompany a hard campaign to disparage real furl and undercut real fur production. I wouldn’t have mentioned fur, but NYC Fashion Week has been going on and designers are still covering models in fur. Very disappointing.

In some cases the lab versions may not offset the perceived prestige of the exploitative products, but for the majority of consumers, they probably would not even care, or even notice, especially if it lowers product costs.

Those are the big ones, but scientists could still go after silk and beeswax though I bet that exploiting insects is pretty efficient. Good silk is expensive, a cheaper, superior product could upset that. If science can’t bioengineer decent replacement animal skin or hair products used for mundane tasks like stuffing pillows or wrapping the human form there isn’t much viability for something as sophisticated as meat.


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Current meat-eaters, who eat womb meat, are of course known as wombats.

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:32 pm 
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This seems to have a lot more implications than just food. Isn't this a similar technology for what they are developing in terms of alternatives for animal testing? If you could replicate skin, especially sensitive skin, then you can test cosmetics, etc.

Of course R&D is expensive but the costs drop dramatically and it's possible we could find a way to create a viable food source, especially if it was easy to do, then it could have many further advantages.

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:39 pm 
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Citizen Ritson wrote:
We already have reasonable meat analogs and people aren’t eating those to the degrees that they should.

I dunno. The majority of consumers of veggie burgers are omnivores, and veggie burgers and plant milks are both really fast-growing markets right now. I don't think this product will appeal to that group though, since they're eating analogs for health reasons, and vat meat isn't healthier than other meat.

I think where this will end up is fast food and prepared foods. Those are already so highly engineered. If vat meat is cheaper, I imagine they'll use it the same way they use soy products now. And I also expect a big battle about labeling between the food industry and their watchdogs.


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:46 pm 
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I don't care about eating vat meat myself, but I really want it to become available so I can feed it to my cats.

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:57 pm 
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VatCat brand cat food.

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:18 pm 
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My husband will be so happy.


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:23 pm 
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It skeeves me out...but so does the real thing. I wouldn't eat either one. And honestly since it's coming from stem cells, I'm thinking I wouldn't consider it vegan.


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:12 pm 
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karichelle wrote:
It skeeves me out...but so does the real thing. I wouldn't eat either one. And honestly since it's coming from stem cells, I'm thinking I wouldn't consider it vegan.

This. I guess PETA thought they weren't doing enough for the world by endorsing KFC and domestic violence since...
Quote:
Lab-grown meat has also won the endorsement of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETA, because the stem cells could be extracted without killing animals.

Clearly the cows involved consented to having their stem cells extracted and the rest of the time they're roaming free living long, fulfilling natural lives. Blargh.

Lab grown meat will always still involve exploiting animals. While it may be a more appealing idea than shiitake like this, it's just stupid. It's a massive waste of resources and just bolsters the false ideas that meat is a necessary, healthy, natural part of human diet. Just eat some forking real food made of tasty plants.


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:18 am 
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Citizen Ritson wrote:
Skip the lab meat idea. People are not going to eat it. Adoption certainly won’t be fast. We already have reasonable meat analogs and people aren’t eating those to the degrees that they should.

What scientists should be working on are lab grown animal products that are inexpensive and environmentally friendly but that no one needs to put into their mouth. Products people wouldn’t be weirded out by because it doesn’t have to pass a full sensory test including taste and smell, and eschews the intimate matter of health and nutrition.

Leather
Pleather just isn’t cutting it and swapping plastic for organic material isn’t an ideal tradeoff. Massive, perfect sheets of lab grown leather has tremendous economic potential and design flexibility over animal skins rife with carcass damage, odd shapes, and non-uniformity. You could grow leathers in different colors, no need for dye. Lab leather could be more natural than animal leather since it could theoretically be engineered to textile specifications without dyes or treatment chemicals.

Wool
Synthetics aren’t cutting it; again, the issue with biodegradability, and the properties aren’t the same. Can’t we grow hair in test tubes already? Dump in some organic inputs, grow sheets of wool in whatever quality you desire. Lab grown cashmere? Why not? No one would care about wearing it so long as it felt wonderful.

Feathers/Down
Bedding. Jackets. If we can grow hair, we should be able to grow feathers. Synthetic down isn’t quite the same and if you could grow feathers where no one could tell the difference when stuffed into a sack or jacket, you’re golden. You probably wouldn’t even need to label lab down, no one would care so long as they were warm and comfy.

Fur
Could be problematic because if lab fur became cheap and ubiquitous, it would encourage the demand for real fur. For the most part, most consumers don’t own a lot of fur but would probably jump all over a lab grown option. Adoption of viable lab fur would have to accompany a hard campaign to disparage real furl and undercut real fur production. I wouldn’t have mentioned fur, but NYC Fashion Week has been going on and designers are still covering models in fur. Very disappointing.

In some cases the lab versions may not offset the perceived prestige of the exploitative products, but for the majority of consumers, they probably would not even care, or even notice, especially if it lowers product costs.

Those are the big ones, but scientists could still go after silk and beeswax though I bet that exploiting insects is pretty efficient. Good silk is expensive, a cheaper, superior product could upset that. If science can’t bioengineer decent replacement animal skin or hair products used for mundane tasks like stuffing pillows or wrapping the human form there isn’t much viability for something as sophisticated as meat.


I like these ideas very much. I wouldn't eat lab meat and I doubt many would, unless it's incorporated in cheap burgers that are already full of shiitake. Personally I believe that if you're willing to eat the cheap fast food burgers, you care so little about your health that you wouldn't care about vat meat either. But I guess not many would anyway.
So coming up with lab leather and lab wook would be so much more useful, and still reduce a lot of cruelty.

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:54 am 
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The goal, in my mind, is not to have people make the choice to eat lab meat, but have it replace what they'd normally eat. Shift animal agriculture into a delicacy instead of the only way to get meat.

As for being from stem cells, wouldn't only the original batch be directly derived from individual animals?


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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:20 am 
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That's the impression I got. That they only needed one cow to start the process, and then didn't need anymore after that. I still like this idea better:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/20/test-tube-meat-coming_n_1288874.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:28 am 
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several omni family and friends were posting this up on FB and commenting how gross it was...I held my tongue because I didn't want to be the "preachy vegan" and I knew it wouldn't accomplish anything with the crowd posting but really? This is somehow worse than an abused and likely diseased, antibiotic/hormone filled animal and the slaugtherhouse it is put through?

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 Post subject: Re: "Lab-grown meat" a reality!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:12 am 
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sunnybear wrote:
That's the impression I got. That they only needed one cow to start the process


Clearly the best option is to find an animal able to give consent and donate his or her tissues to science/future guilt-free meaty meals.

The most obvious choice here is the one species on the planet we can actually talk to.

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