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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Right. One of the big criticisms Peta seemed to have in that article was that Estee Lauder wasn't doing enough to lobby for a change of the law in China. I think that's kind of forked for a variety of reasons, even though I absolutely support a global ban on animal testing.

I also can't help but think that if Estee Lauder withdraws from China over the law, another company, probably one that tests on animals everywhere, will step in and fill the space left.

So, yeah - I'm on the fence.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:03 pm 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
I wrote a comment on Aveda's facebook asking for clarification on any changes to their animal testing policy, I was very polite. They DELETED MY COMMENT! I mean, really? I think that's a pretty clear sign they don't give a shiitake. So I just wrote another comment. haha.

ETA: They just deleted my second comment!


I still see your comment there. I think maybe they deleted your second comment since your first comment is still there (but I think maybe their page is just wonky, because I didn't see your comment this morning).

"So, so, so disappointed to hear of your parent company Estée Lauder's decision to resume animal testing to get into the Chinese market. Does that include Aveda? That would be so hypocritical of Aveda, for all the taking a stand against animal testing, to go back on that. If it were so, I'd be unable to support Aveda anymore, and it's all I use so that would be devestating."
That's your comment, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:07 pm 
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That's my comment! I'm glad it's still there. Even though since the time I've written that, I've done a bit of research independent from the originating article and posted what I found on the previous page - Aveda's US/Canada website still reflects that they do not test on animals and are vocal about the ending of testing. I don't know how I feel about blaming a company that is trying so hard in so many respects for a decision made by their parent company.
I'll likely continue using their products as I am satisfied by what I have found out.

That is, however, only related to Aveda. I don't know about the other companies as I don't use their products. But it's an individual decision.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:01 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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For people looking to replace Aveda, check out Paul Mitchell products. They aren't all vegan as some contain honey or beeswax, but a lot of the products are vegan, and they don't test. I'm going to a Paul Mitchell school right now and I've gotten to use a lot of the different products and they're really nice.

I use a lot of Tigi products on my own hair too (mostly Bedhead and Catwalk stuff). As far as I know they don't test, their website says they don't, and the products I've used look to be vegan.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:35 am 
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jessilikewhoa wrote:
For people looking to replace Aveda, check out Paul Mitchell products. They aren't all vegan as some contain honey or beeswax, but a lot of the products are vegan, and they don't test. I'm going to a Paul Mitchell school right now and I've gotten to use a lot of the different products and they're really nice.


I switched from the Aveda damage repair leave in conditioner to the one by Giovanni & I like it even more. It's a bigger bottle, you need less & it's less than half the price of he Aveda one, £7something instead of £20somehing.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:57 am 
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Yeah, I've found Aveda tends to leave residue in my hair and I also prefer Giovanni.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 am 
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I really like Giovanni products. I use the 50:50 shampoo and conditioner, and I just started using the More Body Thickening Gel. I don't know if the gel does anything, but I like to put something on my hair to protect it from the blow dryer.

For face stuff, I use a lot of Earth Science products (Clarifying Facial Wash, Clarifying Herbal Astringent, and Almond Aloe Moisturizer with SPF 15). At night I used BWC oil-free moisturizer, and it's the best I've ever used. That being said, skin stuff is tricky, and I really feel for you all that have skin issues and have found what works best for you.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that no one is asking me to martyr myself for the animals. We're just trying to do less harm, and I would hate for anyone to make themselves absolutely miserable. It's hard to know what decision to make about Estee Lauder products.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:13 am 
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Guys, if you like the Giovanni products, check out TJMaxx! Twice now I've gotten big-ass bottles of shampoo and conditioner for $12.99, which for cruelty-free, vegan products is pretty cheap. It works great on mine and the kid's hair. I imagine it's okay on the husband's, but his hair is so short it doesn't' really count.

(big-ass = 33.5 oz/1000 ml with a pump top, lasted my family several months.)

eta: I also want to ask about the Simple products, does anyone know anything about them? I can't find anything on the US site, but found this on Australia's. I'm allergic to several of them, but a few may work. They could be an okay replacement if the company checks out.

http://www.simpleskincare.com.au/faqs.html


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:09 pm 
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I use Giovanni tea tree shampoo and conditioner, and it works really well for my thick-ass hair and sweat-heavy lifestyle.

I also just got a bottle of Alba's new Hawaiian coconut milk facial cleanser. I've only used it once, but it's niiiiiiiiiice. It smells gorgeous and has made my skin noticeably softer (to me).

Anyone have any recommendations for anti-aging products and/or facial moisturizers that contain SPF 25 or higher?

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Jordan, I haven't tried this brand yet (just heard about it), but I was planning on checking it out at Whole Foods this weekend. A lot of their stuff says "vegan friendly". http://www.mychelle.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Giovanni is often found at Costco!

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Giovanni also has bulk products available. My coop has their shampoos, conditioners, and body washes available in bulk.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:12 pm 
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I have the MyChelle and like it a lot, but it's not as magical as my Origins. It's kind of heavy and sticky feeling. It's my go-to face sunscreen for days when I'm working in the garden or going for a hike, but it's not a great everyday, going to work cream.

I feel like I'm in a similar boat as jopa. This sucks, but Origins and Aveda still seem to be against testing. If I stumble across a great product that is more distanced from animal testing, that would be great, but I won't specifically shun Origins and Aveda for EL's decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:20 pm 
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mel c wrote:
I have the MyChelle and like it a lot, but it's not as magical as my Origins. It's kind of heavy and sticky feeling. It's my go-to face sunscreen for days when I'm working in the garden or going for a hike, but it's not a great everyday, going to work cream.

Bummer. I might still try it because the couple of things I've bought from Origins made me break out (they weren't the oil-free versions though).

There are also these from Super: http://www.getsuper.com/category/super+ ... +damage.do I just heard back from them today and everything in the brand is vegan except Second Skin and Lush Lips.

I agree about Origins and Aveda though, I'm just always looking for new and better things to try!


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:55 pm 
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bekki wrote:
: I also want to ask about the Simple products, does anyone know anything about them? I can't find anything on the US site, but found this on Australia's. I'm allergic to several of them, but a few may work. They could be an okay replacement if the company checks out.

http://www.simpleskincare.com.au/faqs.html


I've been seeing Simple on blogs a lot lately so I was curious too. If you scroll to the bottom of their US website it says they're owned by Unilever, who I'm pretty certain test.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:56 pm 
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jessilikewhoa wrote:
bekki wrote:
: I also want to ask about the Simple products, does anyone know anything about them? I can't find anything on the US site, but found this on Australia's. I'm allergic to several of them, but a few may work. They could be an okay replacement if the company checks out.

http://www.simpleskincare.com.au/faqs.html


I've been seeing Simple on blogs a lot lately so I was curious too. If you scroll to the bottom of their US website it says they're owned by Unilever, who I'm pretty certain test.


CURSES! How did I miss that?


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:20 pm 
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It's tiny fine print, I didn't see it at first either.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Arrr, Giovanni products -even those for damaged hair- made my hair really really dry and shitty. Glad they work for some of you!

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:07 am 
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Both Aveda and Estee Lauder have been removed from this safe list from the Dutch anti-testing organization Proefdiervrij. They were both still on there when I checked a few days ago.

I'm still torn about which way to go. On the one hand, I don't want my money going towards a parent company that does animal testing. On the other, I think supporting a good company can have an influence on policies that a parent company makes. When The Body Shop was taken over by L'Oreal, there were some people who argued that they could work from within to change the testing policies of the larger company. Maybe that's a little pie-in-the-sky, though. I don't know.

I'm afraid that if I give Aveda/EL a pass on this issue, I'll be doing it for self-serving reasons. It took me years to find a product that keeps my hair from turning into a haystack, and their Be Curly line is the only thing that does the job. I've been trying Lush's R&B for the last couple of weeks and my hair is a mess. Went back to the Be Curly for one day and the difference is clear. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:42 am 
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For those looking for SPF, I hear good things about Lavanila SPF40 Face Cream. I haven't tried it myself (don't think they sell it here) but you may want to check it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:58 am 
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bekki wrote:
jessilikewhoa wrote:
bekki wrote:
: I also want to ask about the Simple products, does anyone know anything about them? I can't find anything on the US site, but found this on Australia's. I'm allergic to several of them, but a few may work. They could be an okay replacement if the company checks out.

http://www.simpleskincare.com.au/faqs.html


I've been seeing Simple on blogs a lot lately so I was curious too. If you scroll to the bottom of their US website it says they're owned by Unilever, who I'm pretty certain test.


CURSES! How did I miss that?


Oh my god. I have been boycotting Unileaver for years & nowhere on their UK products do they say they're really Unileaver. Time to find new moisturiser, face wipes, cleanser, toner and face wash. This suuuuucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:56 am 
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andi_vert wrote:
Arrr, Giovanni products -even those for damaged hair- made my hair really really dry and shitty. Glad they work for some of you!


Yup, my hair is like hay with it. The products are way too light!

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:01 am 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
andi_vert wrote:
Arrr, Giovanni products -even those for damaged hair- made my hair really really dry and shitty. Glad they work for some of you!


Yup, my hair is like hay with it. The products are way too light!


My hair's super fine and gets greasy really fast. Maybe it works best for that type of hair?

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:13 am 
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Dang I had no idea simple were owned by unilever!!! Bollocks.

Edit: oh forking hell they own tresemme as well now! That's new. I am glad I stopped buying their conditioner now.

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 Post subject: Re: Bad news about Estee Lauder
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:29 am 
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baps wrote:
Dang I had no idea simple were owned by unilever!!! Bollocks.

Edit: oh forking hell they own tresemme as well now! That's new. I am glad I stopped buying their conditioner now.

Seems they bought the company that owned Tresemme and Simple in 2010. forkers :(

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