Post Punk Kitchen Forum

The officer doesn't know how the law works. He's stating that the self defense claim overcomes probable cause to arrest, which it simply doesn't. That is SUPER wrong. Self defense is a defense to be brought in court (either preliminary hearing or trial). It does not prima facie vitiate probable cause to arrest a person, particularly when the evidence in support of the claim is so weak, as it is in this case.

This makes me so angry.

I call bullshiitake on that too, because I think we all know charges probably would have already been filed if the races were reversed.

Yeah. That statement is bullshiitake. It's not up to the invesgitating officer(s) to decide whether a case should be declined due to a self-defense claim. And even if Zimmerman reasonably thought he was in danger, he still had a duty to retreat before resorting to deadly force. He should have been arrested at the scene.

He's going to be hard pressed to show that he retreated in those circumstances, just as I imagine he'd be hard pressed to show that he was defending against what could reasonably be construed as deadly force when he shot the teenager who was armed only with iced tea and skittles.

“That is the circumstance we are dealing with: If we arrest, we open ourselves to a lawsuit,” Sgt. Dave Morgenstern, a spokesman with the Sanford Police Department, said. “I would have to say I don’t think we have conducted a racially biased investigation at all.”

“The evidence doesn’t establish so far that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self-defense,” Chief Bill Lee of the Sanford police said this week, responding to why Mr. Zimmerman had not been arrested. He said he would welcome a federal investigation. “We don’t have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense at this point.”

Echoing a view held by many blacks in Sanford and elsewhere, the family’s lawyer, Benjamin Crump, said the police appeared to be protecting Mr. Zimmerman.

“Had Trayvon been the person who was the triggerman, they would have arrested him from Day 1 and they wouldn’t have given him bail and he would be sitting in jail,” Mr. Crump said. “Zimmerman is free and sleeping in his own bed at night.”

Frustration also grew after the parents said they had been told by detectives that Mr. Zimmerman had a “squeaky clean” record. They knew this, the detectives said, because Mr. Zimmerman told them. But Mr. Zimmerman had been arrested in 2005 on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a police officer. The charges were later dropped.

The police said it took them some time to run the check.
......
Mary Cutcher and her roommate said they heard Trayvon pleading. Then they heard a gunshot. They rushed outside and saw Mr. Zimmerman standing over the teenager. Ms. Cutcher said she did not think it was self-defense and added that the police took only a brief statement, despite her efforts to go into detail.

In a statement Thursday, the police said her statement to them matched Mr. Zimmerman’s.

But he isn't being "hard pressed." The police are on his side, and said that they aren't arresting him for fear of a wrongful arrest lawsuit.

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Zimmerman's own tape is pretty damning. He says things "looks like he's on drugs", "they always get away", and then worries that Treyvon saw him and was looking his way, because obviously no one would be suspicious of a bubba following them with their car. The most damning part of the call is when he says "he ran" and you can then hear that familiar sound of air rushing by the phone receiver. So this kid was running and he kept following him, either in his car or on foot.