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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:01 pm 
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And today in the "Inevitable Result of Poor Decisions" department, we have this:

The largest U.S. outbreak of measles to occur in 15 years -- affecting 214 children so far -- is likely driven by travelers returning from abroad and by too many unvaccinated U.S. children, according to new research.

Quote:
Unfortunately, "we have experienced an increased incidence of measles this year," said Huong McLean, lead researcher and CDC epidemiologist. "Typically we see 60 to 70 cases a year, this year we have 214 as of Oct. 14."
Among those people infected, 86 percent were unvaccinated or their vaccination status was unknown. Thirteen percent were under one year old -- too young for vaccination.


It is hard to resist making comments on this, but the fact that 13% of the people who have gotten measles are BABIES should underline the inherent selfishness of not vaccinating one's children.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:29 pm 
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That makes me sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:16 pm 
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I have to say "thanks" for this thread! I just checked out "The Panic Virus" from the library yesterday after reading thru this. My MIL was asking me all about vaccines and if we were going to or not... and saying she wad glad she didn't have to make the decision. Apparently, she watched some show with Jenny McCarthy? I didn't really know how to respond, so I'm looking forward to reading the book and better defending my choice!

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:30 pm 
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kdub wrote:
I have to say "thanks" for this thread! I just checked out "The Panic Virus" from the library yesterday after reading thru this. My MIL was asking me all about vaccines and if we were going to or not... and saying she wad glad she didn't have to make the decision. Apparently, she watched some show with Jenny McCarthy? I didn't really know how to respond, so I'm looking forward to reading the book and better defending my choice!


My husband stood in line to meet Jenny McCarthy once. It wasn't for her medical knowledge, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Ok, someone talk me off the ledge. We decided to vaccinate guineapiglet but on a staggered schedule which has worked really well for us so far. I've nursed her through the shots so she's barely noticed them and has been her normal happy wonderful self. Well today we went in for her vaccinations and it went from a short visit to a 1 1/2 hr visit because of some confusion w/insurance and then I got caught up chatting with the med student shadowing her pediatrician and didn't think to remind the pediatrician that we were on a satggered schedule. So I start to nurse guineapiglet in anticipation of the shots when the nurse comes in with the tray. We were expecting 1 shot and te rotovirus vaccine. Rotovirus went fine, shot went fine then next thing I know the nurse gave her another shot. I'm nusingguineapiglet so I try not to freak out but I stop her before she can reach for shot #3 and tell her we're on a staggered schedule. Everyone was so apologetic and it was an honest mistake but I'm silently (well not so slently) freaking out. Just the idea of so many vaccines in her at once is scaring me and I've been watching her like a hawk. Just looking for reassurance that it's all going to be ok. I feel so horrible.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:54 pm 
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She's going to be okay! I did staggered schedule too with my second, but my first son had them all normally and never had an issue even with the multiple shots at once. It sucks and it's scary, but she's totally going to be okay. Don't feel horrible! Just hug her extra and tomorrow she'll be fine and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:58 pm 
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(((((Hugs Guineapig))))) It is going to be fine, as you know :) and wow for being such a supermama that Guineapiglet doesn't even notice them!

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:01 pm 
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We can probably find the article again, but I read an interview with an immunologist who estimates that a healthy baby could conceivably be injected with at least 10,000 vaccines at once with no life-threatening effects (aside from being pretty annoyed with all the needles). Immune systems are tough, even in babies. She'll be fine... 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
(((((Hugs Guineapig))))) It is going to be fine, as you know :) and wow for being such a supermama that Guineapiglet doesn't even notice them!


Thanks. I've taken her temp at leat 12 times today (geesh, I'm such a first time mom).

No testament to my parenting at all! Haha! She just loves breastmilk more than anything in the world and tunes the world out. She's never had two shots at the same time before so she let out 2 big screams this time before I was able to convince her to go back to nursing.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:59 pm 
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We need Chipmunk but I would be surprised to find that there was a reasonable study that suggested that giving vaccines on the recommended schedule was unsafe in any way.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Totally off topic, but Tzipi's shots are a little behind. She needs two to catch up to what she should have at 24 months but we've been battling ear infections and croup all winter so I haven't been able to get her shots in. My one staunch vaccination woo is that she doesn't get them if she's not been well. We just got off a long course of antibiotics and she'd been snot and cough free for about one week. It literally JUST crossed my mind that i needed to take her in for those shots... when she started sneezing and dripping snot... and then promptly got croup. Bloody hell. These stupid shots aren't ever getting done.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Oh look, Washington State has a whooping cough epidemic.

http://www.doh.wa.gov/Publicat/2012_news/12-038.htm

Quote:

Whooping cough cases reach epidemic levels in much of Washington
All teens and adults need a whooping cough booster

OLYMPIA – Today Secretary of Health Mary Selecky announced that whooping cough disease has reached epidemic levels in Washington. So far in 2012, 640 cases have been reported in 23 counties as of March 31. This compares to 94 cases during this same time period last year, putting Washington on-pace to have the highest number of reported cases in decades.

“We’re very concerned about the continued rapid increase in reported cases,” said Secretary of Health Mary Selecky. “This disease can be very serious for young babies, who often get whooping cough from adults and other family members. We want all teens and adults who haven’t had Tdap to be vaccinated to help protect babies that are too young for the vaccine.”

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:47 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:
Oh look, Washington State has a whooping cough epidemic.

http://www.doh.wa.gov/Publicat/2012_news/12-038.htm

Quote:

Whooping cough cases reach epidemic levels in much of Washington
All teens and adults need a whooping cough booster

OLYMPIA – Today Secretary of Health Mary Selecky announced that whooping cough disease has reached epidemic levels in Washington. So far in 2012, 640 cases have been reported in 23 counties as of March 31. This compares to 94 cases during this same time period last year, putting Washington on-pace to have the highest number of reported cases in decades.

“We’re very concerned about the continued rapid increase in reported cases,” said Secretary of Health Mary Selecky. “This disease can be very serious for young babies, who often get whooping cough from adults and other family members. We want all teens and adults who haven’t had Tdap to be vaccinated to help protect babies that are too young for the vaccine.”

My doc had me get the tdap 2 or 3 years ago because pertussis was becoming alarming to her even then.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Please note, however, that Washington state's rate of pertussis vaccination—among teens at least—has been climbing for at least a couple years.

In 2010.

In 2011.

Therefore... I have no idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:26 pm 
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I believe Pertussis is one of those things you need a booster for - that's why it's bundled with the tetanus vaccine.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:32 pm 
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There is a pertussis outbreak here too. As annak says, they're seeing that the vaccines don't confer a lifetime benefit and need boosters.

On a separate topic, I blocked someone from my FB feed because she posted a Natural News article that the CDC is trying to force women to stop breastfeeding, so as to boost rotavirus vax efficacy. Its just not true. I wish we could have a real convo on vaxes without people distorting the truth or making dubious scientific claims.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:11 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
On a separate topic, I blocked someone from my FB feed because she posted a Natural News article that the CDC is trying to force women to stop breastfeeding, so as to boost rotavirus vax efficacy. Its just not true. I wish we could have a real convo on vaxes without people distorting the truth or making dubious scientific claims.


Without distorting the truth or making dubious scientific claims, most of the anti-vaccine arguments fall away and they're left with "I don't understand it, it's scary and I just don't want to." And that (although refreshingly honest) is basically selfish and indefensible.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:53 pm 
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I realize this is kindof off-topic, but I'm curious about your experiences 2-ish years ago with the H1N1 influenza pandemic and the vaccination, and whether you decided to become vaccinated. The H1N1 scare in Canada was epic, and there was a strong push for people to be vaccinated, especially for those at increased risk.

I opted not to be vaccinated, and I wasn't ever sick despite having cared for 6 confirmed H1N1+ patients. But I wonder if I was a parent if I'd have reconsidered.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:07 pm 
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My county health department offered the vaccine at school so my son and I were vaccinated. I work with the public and deal with many elderly people. Chances are I would be fine if I got H1N1 but I wouldn't want to spread it to someone who could die.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Oh and anti-vax people? Congratulations, you can now proudly say that you have something in common with Donald Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:54 pm 
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AlwaysHungry wrote:
I realize this is kindof off-topic, but I'm curious about your experiences 2-ish years ago with the H1N1 influenza pandemic and the vaccination, and whether you decided to become vaccinated. The H1N1 scare in Canada was epic, and there was a strong push for people to be vaccinated, especially for those at increased risk.

I opted not to be vaccinated, and I wasn't ever sick despite having cared for 6 confirmed H1N1+ patients. But I wonder if I was a parent if I'd have reconsidered.


I caught H1N1 and was sick as a dog, with fever above 39C for a full week even with medication, complete with hallucinations. I think it took me a month to fully recover because I was so weak afterwards. Not a pleasant experience or something I would feel comfortable just weathering out again. I haven't gotten vaccinated against the flu since because, to be perfectly honest, I'm not the best at staying on schedule for preventative care. But if it was offered to me I would take it.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:05 pm 
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AlwaysHungry wrote:
But I wonder if I was a parent if I'd have reconsidered.


I don't normally get the flu shot and neither does my partner, but we did because we were expecting Leela. I liked the idea of giving her the antibodies in breastmilk and keeping her a bit safer from getting sick because they are so fragile at the beginning.

I would probably also get the shots if she were in school or daycare because everything spreads so fast there.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:12 pm 
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If you want to take a look at Natural News, here is their article saying that new science shows that you don't need vaccines.

Quote:
The theory behind vaccines is that they mimic infection by spurring B cells, one of the two major types of white blood cells in the immune system, to produce antibodies as part of the adaptive immune system. It is widely believed that these vaccine-induced antibodies, which are part of the more specific adaptive immune system, teach the immune system how to directly respond to an infection before the body becomes exposed to it.

But the new research highlights the fact that innate immunity plays a significant role in fighting infections, and is perhaps more important than adaptive immunity at preventing or fighting infections. In tests, adaptive immune system antibodies were shown unable to fight infection by themselves, which in essence debunks the theory that vaccine-induced antibodies serve any legitimate function in preventing or fighting off infection.

"Our findings contradict the current view that antibodies are absolutely required to survive infection with viruses like VSV (vesicular stomatitis virus), and establish an unexpected function for B cells as custodians of macrophages in antiviral immunity," said Dr. Uldrich H. von Andrian from Harvard Medical School. "It will be important to further dissect the role of antibodies and interferons in immunity against similar viruses that attack the nervous system, such as rabies, West Nile virus, and Encephalitis."

As explained by Dr. Russell Blaylock in a recent interview with Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, vaccines not only do not work as advertised, but they actually damage the body's innate immunity. Rather than teach the body how to respond to infections, vaccines actually inhibit the immune system's ability to produce TH2-type cytokines, and suppress cellular immunity, which is how the body protects itself against deadly viruses and bacteria.

http://www.naturalnews.com/035371_vacci ... ruses.html

I am not a scientist, but there are so many logical flaws in their arguments.

The whole Natural News anti-vax pseudo-science is just appallingly awful, and then when people post that those parents who vax their children are ignorant, I get all hulk-smashy.

There are some vaccines I wouldn't get - like the Hep B at birth - and its useful to know which vaccines confer limited immunity (chickenpox and pertussis etc), so you can make informed decisions for your family. But the whole "all vaccines are evil and the CDC is trying to kill you in the name of Big Pharm" paranoia quashes the conversation.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:32 pm 
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"Mike Adams, the Health Ranger?" Sounds legit to me!

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:04 am 
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Vantine wrote:
We need Chipmunk but I would be surprised to find that there was a reasonable study that suggested that giving vaccines on the recommended schedule was unsafe in any way.

I have to head out in a sec, but as opposed to the "alternative" schedule, we actually know that the vaccines won't interfere with each other's efficacy and are safe given in that combination for the recommended one. Many of today's vaccines also contain a lot fewer potentially antigenic components than their older counterparts. Thousands less in the case of pertussis where you'd have everything that was in the bacterial cell rather than a few isolated proteins.


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