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 Post subject: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:24 am 
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Tofu Pup

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I hear differing messages about soy and its possible link to cancer, especially breast cancer. Soy has been linked to estrogenic stimulation in some studies which is pretty scary! I have a friend who had breast cancer and she was told by the doctors not to touch anything with soy in it. Having a diet that is heavy with soy, the concern has been in the back of my mind. Also how much soy is too much for men? My hubbie is an omnivore and I when I cook it is all vegan but I wonder about the impact of soy on him also due to again the estrogenic stimulation. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:43 am 
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Dr Bronners, MD
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I eat a TON of soy and I don't have massive sexy hooters, so your husband should be okay too. It's probably best that he take up shooting or football or something manly like that to counteract the feminization effect of eating soy, though, just to be safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:45 am 
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Tofu Pup

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lol...I will have to tell him that.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:53 am 
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This was from 2004 and a study with male rodents, but its interesting. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/7842.php


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:16 am 
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Is there a link somewhere to the actual study? It's a little hard to evaluate without better info.

They feed monkeys 125 mg isoflavones a day. Without knowing how many calories these monkeys eat in a day, it's a little hard to know if that's a lot or a little for them (and it's hard to extrapolate to a human diet), but it seems like a lot. This chart lists isoflavone levels for different soy foods: http://www.soyfoods.com/nutrition/isofl ... ation.html. Mature, uncooked soybeans (edamame) have the highest level, but a cup of soymilk only has 20 mg and uncooked tofu only has 38.8 mg. The study does note that the 125 mg is higher than that typically consumed by asian populations that consume healthy amounts of soy but is comparable to the amount in dietary supplements in the US. So... maybe avoid taking soy supplements? Honestly, I don't know anyone who does that anyway.

I have other questions about the study too though (How many subjects did they use in each group? Was it blind? In what form were the isoflavones given? Did their diets during the study differ in other significant ways from typical diets for the animals?). But basically I think the odd piece of tofu is unlikely to do jack to your husband, so don't stress about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:00 am 
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Okay, edit that. Mature soybeans do not equal edamame. I have no idea what "mature" soybeans are. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:24 am 
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like the dried soybeans you find in the store and make soymilk out of?

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:35 am 
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Because Bob Barker Told Me To

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Info from the American Cancer Society on soy: http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/Treatme ... on/soybean

There is some weak evidence that soy might prevent certain cancers, but for people who already have developed estrogen receptor positive breast cancer, it is unclear what effect soy isoflavones might have. Likely your friends' doctors are erring on the side of caution. For the rest of us who don't have breast cancer, there isn't any reason to think soy will cause unwanted side effects.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:12 am 
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Ok cool....some info I was reading was saying that Asian women eat much more soy then U.S. women and they have less incidents of cancer so that seems positive.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:30 am 
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I've referred friends to this article often, as it discusses almost all of the things soy is reputed to do: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/soy_harm

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:20 am 
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Check out The Vegan RD, Ginny Messina's thoughts on the issue: http://www.theveganrd.com/tag/soy

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:25 pm 
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jordanpattern wrote:
Check out The Vegan RD, Ginny Messina's thoughts on the issue: http://www.theveganrd.com/tag/soy


I 2nd this

also check out http://veganskeptic.blogspot.com/2009/1 ... ogens.html & http://veganskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... -acid.html on Vegan Skeptic's blog

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:19 am 
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I stay away from soy as much as possible. When I first went vegan I ate tons of soy. I was wondering why I was having terrible headaches all the time. After completely eliminating it from my diet my headaches got better. I can now eat it occasionally or accidentally and don't have serious three day headaches. Soy sauce and soy flour are usually the worst culprits. Although I had a delightful seitan sandwich at a new restaurant the other day with vegenaise on it and it was fine. No headache.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:20 pm 
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For me it's a foe because it causes such terrible abdominal pain that I want to off myself just to stop hurting (until I remember that I can take a gravol and sleep it off while the antihistamine works its magic). I've read that soy is bad for cancer as well as good for cancer from different studies, my assumption is that it depends on the type of cancer. Personally, even if I didn't have a soy allergy I'd avoid MOST soy anyhow because I hate Monsanto.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Hearts James Cromwell
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Jack Norris RD did a Survey of Peer Reviewed Studies and put together an article including ref. here:

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/soy_wth


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Eudemonia wrote:
Personally, even if I didn't have a soy allergy I'd avoid MOST soy anyhow because I hate Monsanto.

I wouldn't know where to get "Monsanto soy" if I tried?


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Chipmunk wrote:
Eudemonia wrote:
Personally, even if I didn't have a soy allergy I'd avoid MOST soy anyhow because I hate Monsanto.

I wouldn't know where to get "Monsanto soy" if I tried?


Yeah, I think you'd have to order it from a cattle feed company.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:44 am 
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I've been tying for a while and have yet to find a single block of GMO tofu. Outside of morningstar products the vast majority of soy products made for vegetarians and vegans are non-gmo.

But if you really wanna avoid monsanto youre gonna have to do some digging for info in the produce isle, they sell plenty of commercial vegetable seed as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:37 am 
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Loves Carrots (in the biblical sense)
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I'm assuming that most of the soy that goes into things like cookies, crackers, breads, chocolate, candy, salad dressing, spice mixes, etc. (all those places there are little bits that you don't think about) not to mention soy sauce, tamari, etc. from the regular grocery store are GM though since 90% of the soy grown in north america is GM. Again, not that it matters as even the tiniest amount of soy lecithin in a handful of chocolate chips makes me feel ill. That's why I said most soy, anything labelled organic or non-GMO is obviously not Monsanto soy which is the majority of tofu since as a community that's what we've asked for. I don't really consider tofu "most soy" since most of the items in the grocery store contain soy to some degree.

I wish there was labeling for veg and the like but since there isn't I just support my local farmers and get the vast majority of my veg from the farmer's market, trying to hit the organic stands first. I'd also have to look into where my cotton clothing was coming from if I wanted to be 100% but unless it was acceptable to walk around everywhere nude it would be a pretty difficult feat. It's not about being 100% anything, it's about being informed and doing your best without running yourself absolutely ragged in the process. Everyone's line is somewhere different and it's no skin off my back what anyone else chooses to do (I still ate soy without wondering where it came from until I developed an allergy, but was toying with the idea of cutting the GM variety out due to Monsanto concerns).

Anyway, this post was about soy's cancer connection. There are lots of articles on the subject on Livestrong if you're still interested in reading more literature about it. They tend to all have the two camps argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:14 pm 
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I actually think most soy goes into animal feed vs human food since there is a pretty tight coupling with growing soy and growing corn. Sure processed products contain a bunch though but not sure they can compete with the amount that goes towards feeding livestock.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 4:47 pm 
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According to the stats I've read ( http://www.epa.gov/oecaagct/ag101/cropmajor.html and doing the math for the conversions) about 40% of the soy grown in the USA is used for livestock feed so consumer products (processed foods, vegetable oils, etc.) must be making up the rest. Take the fact that 90% of the soy grown is GMO and assume all non-GM soy is used for human consumption and that still leaves 50% of the soy crop in North America being GM-soy for human consumption. That's 83% of the soy meant for human consumption being GM. It's not difficult to find "Monsanto soy."


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:20 pm 
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SkepticalVegan wrote:
I've been tying for a while and have yet to find a single block of GMO tofu. Outside of morningstar products the vast majority of soy products made for vegetarians and vegans are non-gmo.

But if you really wanna avoid monsanto youre gonna have to do some digging for info in the produce isle, they sell plenty of commercial vegetable seed as well.

Didn't you do a blog post about GMO and whether or not it was an evil, super villain who sought our total destruction?

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Where are you getting the total harvest? That's also not accounting soy not entering the food chain and it's not clear whether export is factored in. The numbers stated elsewhere look quite different.
http://www.soyatech.com/soy_facts.htm
http://www.unitedsoybean.org/topics/ani ... -industry/

Even so, I don't really buy any of the things listed for reasons completely unrelated to soy (which many of them don't even necessarily contain).


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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Eudemonia wrote:
According to the stats I've read ( http://www.epa.gov/oecaagct/ag101/cropmajor.html and doing the math for the conversions) about 40% of the soy grown in the USA is used for livestock feed so consumer products (processed foods, vegetable oils, etc.) must be making up the rest.


From your link-
"Soybean oil also makes its way into products ranging from anti-corrosion agents to Soy Diesel fuel to waterproof cement"
Did you account for biofuels and other non-food uses of soy?

Also, nearly half of US grown soy is exported according to multiple sources.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/news/soybeancoverage.htm

"...2012/13 soybean supplies are projected at 3.43 billion bushels, up 4 percent from 2011/12...U.S. soybean exports are projected at 1.505 billion bushels..."
http://www.agweb.com/article/wasde_high ... predicted/

But for me, I'm excited to see where GM soy crops go. According to this, I can look forward to soybeans with higher monounsaturated fat, higher omega 3, lower omega 6 and higher stearic acid content. http://www.fefaccongress2010.eu/fileadm ... _Moore.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Soy, friend or foe?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
SkepticalVegan wrote:
I've been tying for a while and have yet to find a single block of GMO tofu. Outside of morningstar products the vast majority of soy products made for vegetarians and vegans are non-gmo.

But if you really wanna avoid monsanto youre gonna have to do some digging for info in the produce isle, they sell plenty of commercial vegetable seed as well.

Didn't you do a blog post about GMO and whether or not it was an evil, super villain who sought our total destruction?


yeah, the post is titled Frankenfood Fears http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com/201 ... ood-fears/
also wrote about GM Labeling & Bt Cotton

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