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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:22 am 
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kimba wrote:
Ariann wrote:
As she got a little bigger and it didn't feel necessary to be nursing/wearing her constantly, she stopped napping at every feeding and she developed very clear sleep cues that became disconnected from feeding. When she's presenting with some early sleep cues, we try to help her go to sleep with techniques that would help us go to sleep (provide the same space at home for every nap, make it quiet, shush her or if in public, wear her or walk her in her stroller).


It's hard to reply to a lot of what you are saying, because it seems like you are arguing against something else, and haven't read the book. It's great that you knew about sleep cues and could try to help your baby go to sleep when she needed to. I didn't get it until reading the book. Sometimes my baby is fussy because he is tired and until I realized that, I wasn't helping him get the sleep he needed. What I do now sounds like what you already do - find ways to help my baby sleep when he needs it. I haven't had to use the crying-it-out parts of the book. We tried for a couple naps, but it wasn't a good fit for us at the time. Also, Carlos has been doing very well most of the day. Evenings are another story. Anyway, the book is a lot more than crying-it-out (which I am not trying to disparage, I think that can help in some situations).

One of the main premises of the book is that "sleep begets sleep" and I am not sure I believed it before, but it's working and making me a believer. The book doesn't talk about fitting it to your schedule, it is about working with baby's natural schedule. You can believe that babies just know how to get enough sleep, but if that were the case, I don't think we would need this thread. Or is this thread about parents not getting enough sleep? Maybe. Carlos has been sleeping 8 hours without waking the last few days! If only the book could help me with my insomnia then maybe we would both be getting some sleep right now.

^ this.

Ariann, sounds like you have not read the book and you are going on preconceived notions. In the book he has no problem with co-sleeping etc..... He is just going on sleep rhythms for babies and how they change when they become toddlers etc.... How to learn about these sleep patterns and work with them to help your babe get more sleep. And yes, sleep begets sleep. And lack of sleep makes colicky babies worse. So the more sleep they get the less screaming you will hear when they are awake. The more they sleep the happier your baby will be and the happier Mommy will be and that makes a happy Daddy. The book is all about making everyone happy and what works in your family. He gives tips for co-sleepers or crib sleepers. It is all science based not culture based. He does not say anything about it being pathological to bring a baby into bed with you....he actually says it works great.

The schedule he talks about has to do with circadian rhythms and how to get in sync with them. I had no idea about circadian rhythms when my baby was born and I had no idea that sleep begets sleep. My baby was colicky and screamed all the time. He screamed if he was in bed with me or in his chair or in his bassinet or in his crib or in the car or in the stroller etc....... I did not know what else to do. He actually slept worse when in bed with me because of my hubby snoring.

Also, in the book he does not suggest sleep training until after 4 or 5 months of age. He actually says before then just sleep with your baby or do whatever works to be sure your baby gets the sleep they need.

I needed to do what this doctor suggested because my baby literally did not sleep. He was colicky and I had major postpartum depression. Getting him to learn to self soothe at 5 months was key to my sanity. Being able to put him down in his crib to sleep long stretches really helped me become a better mother. It may not matter to others and that is fine. There were a few nights that I said I wanted him in bed with me and it did not work. He screamed even louder. I know it does not makes sense. But it worked for us. Believe me, I wanted nothing more then to snuggle my baby at night. Maybe my next baby I can do this with.

There is certainly no judgement in the book. I am so impressed by all of you mothers. Like I said, you all have lucky babies.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:18 pm 
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The Magician is over 4 months old now and he is a damn rolling machine. He wants to sleep on his stomach all the time now. It's driving me a little crazy. He thrashes around in bed until he gets onto his belly. Then he's still. Then I flip him back onto his back... and we do it all over again. I've been thinking about moving him to his own sleeping space just because I think he'd sleep better that way, but now I'm kinda freaked by that because I know if I'm not flipping him back over, he's going to end up on his belly and probably stay there.

Is this crazy? Is a baby who is able to roll onto his belly in his sleep old enough to sleep on his belly? The Emperor really NEVER showed interest in sleeping this way as a baby so I haven't been down this particular road before.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:32 pm 
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coldandsleepy wrote:
The Magician is over 4 months old now and he is a damn rolling machine. He wants to sleep on his stomach all the time now. It's driving me a little crazy. He thrashes around in bed until he gets onto his belly. Then he's still. Then I flip him back onto his back... and we do it all over again. I've been thinking about moving him to his own sleeping space just because I think he'd sleep better that way, but now I'm kinda freaked by that because I know if I'm not flipping him back over, he's going to end up on his belly and probably stay there.

Is this crazy? Is a baby who is able to roll onto his belly in his sleep old enough to sleep on his belly? The Emperor really NEVER showed interest in sleeping this way as a baby so I haven't been down this particular road before.

I was told that once they can flip themselves they are old enough. Can you call his doctor?


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:14 pm 
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He has a well baby checkup on Wednesday so I was going to ask then! Just kind wondering what the word on the street is.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:19 pm 
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I've heard the same thing, and Baby Center confirms it: http://www.babycenter.com/408_when-is-i ... 1368446.bc but I'm sure you're not going to feel comfortable until a professional confirms it for you.

Also, nice going Magician! You're so advanced!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Henry is the same way about rolling, early last week he decided he wasn't going to sleep after midnight, but instead roll onto his stomach and freak out about it. Now, most times he instantly rolls over when we put him in bed, unless he's super tired, and has generally stopped freaking out about it. I would say he sleeps on his stomach about 75% of the time, and the general concensus I've heard is that if he can do it, it's fine. Rolling from front to back he hasn't quite figure out yet, but he's a pro at back to front and hilariously trying to scoot away.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Am I a jerk if I interrupt Leela's naps to go places? And talk to me about scheduled naps.

Most of the people I know will delay plans because their baby just went down for a nap. I kind of encourage her to take a nap before we need to leave, but if not, tough luck. She's also fallen asleep at people's homes and I don't rush to put her to bed. Often I just plan to let her nap in the car and I wake her once we get there - in fact most of the time I really don't want her to wake naturally in the car because she screams and that freaks me out. I might be a jerky mom.

And we don't have a nap scheduled that we adhere to. If she wants a nap, she sleeps, that could be in the ergo, in a stroller, or on me, but I don't maximize her nap value.

Poor Leela

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:09 pm 
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coldandsleepy wrote:
The Magician is over 4 months old now and he is a damn rolling machine. He wants to sleep on his stomach all the time now. It's driving me a little crazy. He thrashes around in bed until he gets onto his belly. Then he's still. Then I flip him back onto his back... and we do it all over again. I've been thinking about moving him to his own sleeping space just because I think he'd sleep better that way, but now I'm kinda freaked by that because I know if I'm not flipping him back over, he's going to end up on his belly and probably stay there.

Is this crazy? Is a baby who is able to roll onto his belly in his sleep old enough to sleep on his belly? The Emperor really NEVER showed interest in sleeping this way as a baby so I haven't been down this particular road before.


This is exactly what we went through. I talked to his ped and she said it was fine. It was then that I started letting him sleep in his crib because he slept better in there. He still sleeps on his belly.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:02 pm 
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tank wrote:
coldandsleepy wrote:
The Magician is over 4 months old now and he is a damn rolling machine. He wants to sleep on his stomach all the time now. It's driving me a little crazy. He thrashes around in bed until he gets onto his belly. Then he's still. Then I flip him back onto his back... and we do it all over again. I've been thinking about moving him to his own sleeping space just because I think he'd sleep better that way, but now I'm kinda freaked by that because I know if I'm not flipping him back over, he's going to end up on his belly and probably stay there.

Is this crazy? Is a baby who is able to roll onto his belly in his sleep old enough to sleep on his belly? The Emperor really NEVER showed interest in sleeping this way as a baby so I haven't been down this particular road before.


This is exactly what we went through. I talked to his ped and she said it was fine. It was then that I started letting him sleep in his crib because he slept better in there. He still sleeps on his belly.

Just another "it's okay." Someone asked the nurse at my mom's group last week, and she said you'll drive yourself crazy trying to keep him on his back. I was glad to hear that because Will woke up on his tummy the next morning. Bonus... seeing him staring at me through the mesh of the pack n play with a big smile first thing in the morning is priceless!

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Tonight as I was rocking wolverine to sleep he started babling and blowing rasberries. It was so cute but I knew he was seconds from sleep so I bit down on my hand to keep from cracking up. We are trying to steer away from nursing to sleep so we are rocking in the chair now. I still can't put him down sleepy but not fully asleep. Won't have it, at all. Someday...


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Am I a jerk if I interrupt Leela's naps to go places? And talk to me about scheduled naps.

Most of the people I know will delay plans because their baby just went down for a nap. I kind of encourage her to take a nap before we need to leave, but if not, tough luck. She's also fallen asleep at people's homes and I don't rush to put her to bed. Often I just plan to let her nap in the car and I wake her once we get there - in fact most of the time I really don't want her to wake naturally in the car because she screams and that freaks me out. I might be a jerky mom.

And we don't have a nap scheduled that we adhere to. If she wants a nap, she sleeps, that could be in the ergo, in a stroller, or on me, but I don't maximize her nap value.

Poor Leela


We don't have a schedule either. Well, nothing more specific than she takes a morning nap and an afternoon nap. I do try to plan nap inviting activities at the appropriate times (said morning and afternoon) mostly by wearing her when she is fussy and it's been awhile. She loves to nap in the mei tai. Will not nap in the stroller, which is killing me! We pass baby after baby blissfully napping in strollers and I have to admit I'm jealous. I often wonder what it is like to have a baby on a schedule. You know, see how the other half lives? I'm happy not being tied down to it and my baby is also a night owl/sleep-in baby which lots of people say is a no no. I'm doing the best I can and she seems happy. I'm sure leela is too.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:58 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Am I a jerk if I interrupt Leela's naps to go places? And talk to me about scheduled naps.

Most of the people I know will delay plans because their baby just went down for a nap. I kind of encourage her to take a nap before we need to leave, but if not, tough luck. She's also fallen asleep at people's homes and I don't rush to put her to bed. Often I just plan to let her nap in the car and I wake her once we get there - in fact most of the time I really don't want her to wake naturally in the car because she screams and that freaks me out. I might be a jerky mom.

And we don't have a nap scheduled that we adhere to. If she wants a nap, she sleeps, that could be in the ergo, in a stroller, or on me, but I don't maximize her nap value.

Poor Leela

Now that I pretty much know when Grey will nap (although it seems to be changing again), I try and be home for it. Until he was about 7-8 months I just did my thing and let him nap when he wanted, I didn't try and make a schedule or anything. Now I know he naps 2-2.5 hours after he wakes up in the morning and then about 3 hours after he wakes up from first nap. I try to be home because if he falls asleep in the car I don't want to wake him because that causes grumpy baby later. So, if he falls asleep in the car I drive around, which kind of sucks, but there are pretty drives around here at least.

Basically, do what works for you! When Grey was still taking 3-4 naps a day I didn't care about waking him up, now that he is down to 2, I want him to get the sleep he needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:31 pm 
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littlebear wrote:
Basically, do what works for you! When Grey was still taking 3-4 naps a day I didn't care about waking him up, now that he is down to 2, I want him to get the sleep he needs.

This is basically what happened for us as well.

Now, it has to be really forking important for me to wake Lydia up from her nap. She is always so upset and cries and cries if I do. It wasn't that way when she was younger.


Last edited by helbury on Sun May 27, 2012 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:34 pm 
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The Emperor didn't have a regular scheduled nap until he was about 20 months old. I wish he'd settled into a normal routine before that but between our extremely nomadic lifestyle at the time (it's a long story, but I regularly spent 8-10 hours out of the house with him daily) and his natural tendencies, he was all over the place.

M already has more patterned sleep than E ever did as a baby. His first nap of the day is very very predictable, pretty much 2 hrs after he wakes up for the day. Now that I've noticed that, I try to have him somewhere restful at that time (in the wrap, in the carseat, etc) so he falls off easily. His other naps are more variable and seem to depend more on what we're doing.

Eta: I'd rather stab myself in the eye than wake up a sleeping baby or child for anything though. M is great because he'll go carseat->wrap and vice versa without waking up.

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Last edited by coldandsleepy on Sun May 27, 2012 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:34 pm 
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Also, thanks for the reassurance re: belly sleeping!

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:00 am 
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T, I am a jerk-mom, too. My kid's naps are totally secondary to my need to run errands and socialize. Since he was about a year old he has needed one nap a day; sometimes that's 30 minutes in the morning in the carseat, sometimes it's in bed from 2-5pm. It really depends on how he slept the night before and what our day is like. It works for us because his daytime sleep (or lack thereof) doesn't seem to interfere with bedtime; he konks out around 8pm no matter what. Like you, I try to get him to sleep around our activities, but if he resists sleep and naps later than I'd planned I will wake him up in order to go out. He manages. I don't understand these people who are like, I can't come to story time anymore because my kid naps from 10:30-11:15. I could not live like that. We go with the flooooooow...


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:00 pm 
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One of the best things about having a baby is using them as an excuse for not doing something you don't want to do. Naptime is a great excuse to not do things. I also think some kids do better on a schedule and for other kids it doesn't matter. Some parents also do better having their kids on a schedule. I have friends who already wake their kids up at certain times in the morning so they can keep them on track for their naps throughout the day.

This morning Grey didn't want to nap at his normal time, so we went to the laundromat since I needed to wash my comforter and then we ate breakfast and walked around. The drive home is about 4 minutes and he fell asleep in the car! He is sleeping now, I am hoping he will sleep for a while, it's been an hour. Although it scares me that we may be getting to the point where he is only taking one nap a day. I guess as long as it is a long one, I shouldn't worry.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Oh, I read this totally wonderful blog piece a few months ago about not needing to schedule naps and letting your baby do their own thing. I posted it on FB and people commented about what their grandmothers did, babies sleeping all over the place. I'll have to see if I can dig it up, but it may have already been posted here anyway. It was a very nice reassurance about not having to re-order your life 100% of the time for your kid. F naps usually 3 times each day, and I try to make sure that at least one of them is an at-home, in the bed nap. One is almost always in the pram at the park, in the supermarket, or just on a walk (or occasionally in the car).


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Sleep has been awful lately. Naps and bedtime. Grey will be so tired and not go to sleep. Then he is fussy and crabby for hours and won't sleep. Now, it's one thing if he is working on a poop and won't sleep, it's another when he just doesn't want to lay down and go to sleep despite how tired he is. He has also never been very good at sleeping on his own, which means for the last eleven months I lay with him almost always while he is sleeping. I have been slowly trying to stop this for several reasons. He needs to sleep on his own and I need to have some time to myself, I am going crazy without it. Well, tonight we let him cry it out. Nate checked in in him every time every 3-5 minutes for 1.5 hours. I think he is finally asleep, but neither of us want to go in incase he isn't and starts crying again. I am so heartbroken. And of course I just want to pick him up and take him to bed. Am I doing the right thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:36 am 
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((((Hugs to you LB)))) I hope you get some time alone. I know i'd be going crazy without it and that would make me a less good mom.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:27 am 
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I felt so guilty so I couldn't really sleep. When he woke up I brought him to our room, which was my original plan. I slept better then. He is sleeping next to me right now. We will see how naps go today...


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:06 am 
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littlebear wrote:
I felt so guilty so I couldn't really sleep. When he woke up I brought him to our room, which was my original plan. I slept better then. He is sleeping next to me right now. We will see how naps go today...


Oh, I am glad he finally got some sleep! Hopefully you will get some sleep soon. I don't think you should feel guilty! You gave him what he needed, which was sleep. Also, a mom that isn't going insane is pretty important, so don't feel bad about taking your needs into account too. Of course the time we had to do this for Carlos I felt the exact same way.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Alright, so we're going with round two of the crib this weekend (probably Sunday night starting). Any last minute tips? Still feeling uneasy about her in her own room, but hoping she can adjust without too many tears. She reaches out often in her sleepy state now in our joint bed, to make sure I'm there. Sigh. :(

Scared that this is going to be awful for her, but she's going to be crawling like any minute and is pulling up just this week, and I'm wondering if she might even be able to sorta propel herself over the pillow fort now (and I found her halfway to sitting up yesterday when I opened the curtains after we woke in the morning). In addition to all this, we need some better sleep. So, I know this is the right thing to try, but the thought of that little hand reaching for me and then the accompanying tears is killer. Whew.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Have you considered putting the crib in your room for a few days, right up next to your bed? She could get used to you being near her and reach through the bars or something, maybe. Not that you want to drag her crib from her room into yours. ;p (Sorry, I don't have any good advice. I still sleep with Raygold and Beet used to sleep by himself, but has somehow ended up sleeping with me again. (We sleep on Japanese futons, though, so no fear of anyone falling off.)

My sympathies on the needing better sleep thing, though!! Man, do I know how that goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:14 pm 
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refinnej - I am sure you already thought of this but when my sister's baby got too mobile they just put the mattress on the floor so nobody would get hurt...of course that doesn't help anyone get extra sleep.


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