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 Post subject: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:51 am 
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For those of you who are flying on the 24th, you can "opt out" of the full-body scan by letting a friendly TSA agent feel you up. Yay! [link NSFW? if a naked x-ray counts]

I'm flying that day, and I plan on holding up the line behind me. Anyone else?

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:46 am 
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I am the only one flying before Thanksgiving? I'm probably going to be the only dork who makes a stink of the x-ray scanner, too...my mother told me on the phone, "I hope you're not so fussy they kick you off the flight."

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:37 am 
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I'm super forking agitated about the new devices/pat downs. I was just reading a blog post from someone who refused either option and it's a really interesting read
http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/ ... tween.html

I'm not flying on Thanksgiving, and to be honest I'm going to try to avoid flying for as long as I possibly can until they sort this out.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:29 am 
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I don't know much about this. Is this at all airports now? The last I heard the full body scanners were only at a few? I didn't see any info on that in the link you posted.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Oh, fork no. I refuse to pose for a naked xray or be groped in public. I hadn't seen images from the full body scanners or the pat down method until now Ew! If you are not my gyno or my boyfriend you do not get to see or touch that!

There are just so many things wrong with this. What about health risks? Not just of the passengers but of the TSA employees?

I remember a few years ago after all the 9/11 security measures were being implemented people were joking that they were going to start strip searching passengers...oh wait.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Where the hell do you fly out of? O'Hare?
They don't body scan us at Midway.... but if I could hold up a line, I would. Because I hate people who do that. The least I can do is have people hate me, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:54 pm 
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tinglepants! wrote:
I'm flying that day, and I plan on holding up the line behind me. Anyone else?


Well, I hope it doesn't hold up the line. I hope they just pull the opt-out people aside. It would suck if people missed their flights.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:18 pm 
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graffitipassion wrote:
tinglepants! wrote:
I'm flying that day, and I plan on holding up the line behind me. Anyone else?


Well, I hope it doesn't hold up the line. I hope they just pull the opt-out people aside. It would suck if people missed their flights.


No one is going to miss their flights because people are opting out--that's an argument being posed by TSA and others to scare people into obeying. First off, yes: they do take people aside for pat-downs, and yes, they can keep the scanning line moving at the same time. It's not any different than before--they search bags and give pat-downs to "suspicious" people at the same time others are walking through the metal detectors. Second, it's probably just going to be a few freaks like me opting out, because frankly, most people are afraid of "breaking" rules (even though opting for a pat-down is still complying). Third, if a significant number of people opt out of hte scanners, well, then, the planes are going to be waiting for a good chunk of their passengers before take-off (and pilots know what's going on--in fact, many pilots are opting out).

Also, the idea is that, in opting out, you request a pat-down on the spot, rather than in a private space (not because a pat-down is less invasive than a body-scan, but because you want others in line to see what the TSA is actually doing). If I request a pat-down on the spot, it's not going to require much more time than walking through a scanner machine would.

And frankly, if my action of requesting the right to a pat-down instead of a full-body scan holds up the line, then it's TSA's responsibility to fix the problem, not mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:21 pm 
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tinglepants! wrote:
And frankly, if my action of requesting the right to a pat-down instead of a full-body scan holds up the line, then it's TSA's responsibility to fix the problem, not mine.

Make 'em work, tingleypantaloons!
You're right, people are afraid to break the rules-- eep! Now I wish I were flying somewhere just so I could say "I'm opting out, bisques." But, you know, without the "bisques" so I don't anger anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:26 pm 
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I don't know how many people are scared to break the rules. I suspect that many people either don't know what's going on, or they are like me, and simply don't care.

ETA: I'm not trying to sound rude here, I just don't know if it's fair to suspect that Americans are scared to do this if we don't really know.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Meggs wrote:
Where the hell do you fly out of? O'Hare?
They don't body scan us at Midway.... but if I could hold up a line, I would. Because I hate people who do that. The least I can do is have people hate me, too.


Ha.;) I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but it's funny, either way. Like I said above, though, I'd be holding up the line as a result of TSA procedures; it's perfectly possible for me to hold myself up without making everyone else wait, if TSA manages some competence.

I do fly out of O'Hare, and they've had the body scanners since March. Luckily, the aiport from which I'm flying back doesn't have them, yet.

Wonkette provides a lot of good links (though I'm really tired of the ad-hominem "obese, high school drop-out" labelling of TSA employees, and think that any journalist can do better than that).

Here's a story of a pregnant woman who was refused the option of a pat-down at O'Hare.

According to an NPR article, "the risk from the scan is about the same as the thing you're trying to prevent."

And Michael Chertoff is an alliterative expletive with two Fs.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Not being sarcastic- I'd do it. You're right, it's their job to fix potential line stoppers like this, even though I don't think many people will opt out.

Midway doesn't have the scanners and I don't fly out of O'Hare, so I've never experienced one, but from those pictures on your link, they look horribly invasive! I'd feel all creeped out afterward!


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Graffiti: I don't think you come across as rude, at all (and while I respectfully disagree with you, I don't mean to dismiss you). Even if most people don't know about the scanners prior to going to the airport, that doesn't preclude anyone from *asking* if it's required, or if there's another option. The reluctance to break rules (at least, when put into an immediate situation) isn't so much an American tendency as it is a human one.

But as a funny aside: when I told the person I'm dating about this, said person replied: "for my birthday, you're going to get felt up by a TSA agent? How'd you know what I wanted?" If anyone behind me in line complains, I might just tell them I'm doing it for a birthday present.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:58 pm 
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tinglepants! wrote:
But as a funny aside: when I told the person I'm dating about this, said person replied: "for my birthday, you're going to get felt up by a TSA agent? How'd you know what I wanted?" If anyone behind me in line complains, I might just tell them I'm doing it for a birthday present.


That's great!

I'm doing more research on the machines. It's a complex issue because it involves privacy and how much of it is protected from the governement. It's an issue I haven't fully formed an opinion on, probably because I've never felt that my privacy has been violated by the government. But now I'm interested in learning more...


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:22 pm 
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Thessaly wrote:
I'm super forking agitated about the new devices/pat downs. I was just reading a blog post from someone who refused either option and it's a really interesting read
http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/ ... tween.html


This story is horrifying, and I really wish Tyner hadn't said, "I'm 6-foot-1, white, with short brown hair...I don't look like a terrorist."

I think anyone truly standing up for civil rights has the responsibility/duty to not perpetuate the idea that terrorist=non-white or that simply looking like a terrorist is grounds for subjection to unconstitutional searches.

My head hurts.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Ohhhh I'm so happy to hear other people getting mad about this! I'm flying before Thanksgiving (unfortunately going to miss opt out day as I'm flying on Tuesday...), but right now I'm definitely planning on opting out, as well. Usually I'm not much of a person to make a fuss, but this whole thing has really gotten to me -- the ridiculous invasion of privacy inherent in both "choices" they give you, the relative speed with which this has been rolled out and the inaccuracies originally reported about the scanners (that they "cannot" store the images), and the potential health risk. Not to sound like a crazy person! But really, I fly pretty frequently and am having a hard time deciding if the radiation absorbed by your skin is an amount I'm okay with. I guess when in doubt, pick no radiation!


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:56 pm 
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Wow. I don't, for one second, believe this is all the footage TSA has...they keep those cameras going continuously. Why is the footage broken into two installments? Why don't we see Meg McClain walking from one checkpoint to another? What's missing? I know it's possible there are holes/exaggerations in McClain's story (even if they aren't intentional)--but not only does the TSA footage do nothing to disprove McClain's story, it's rather fishy on its own. And why don't we see everyone in the first frame?

Why can't I just beam myself to California, instead?

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:16 pm 
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I didn't know about this, but I would opt out if I were flying because it's been a while since I've been felt up and that'd be a nice change of pace.

But I mean, have I missed something? These X-ray machine thingies, have they been there all along and I didn't know I was going through them? Do they tell you before you go through them - okay, someone's about to see you naked? Because if not, hello unethical.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:22 pm 
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Fee wrote:
I didn't know about this, but I would opt out if I were flying because it's been a while since I've been felt up and that'd be a nice change of pace.

But I mean, have I missed something? These X-ray machine thingies, have they been there all along and I didn't know I was going through them? Do they tell you before you go through them - okay, someone's about to see you naked? Because if not, hello unethical.


They just started installing them in Feb/March, and as of now, only the large airports have them...I don't think they tell anyone you're about to be seen naked. They don't even advertise your right to opt out. YOu have to be informed ahead of time.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:23 pm 
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I think they're only in certain airports.

Nevermind, question answered.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:33 pm 
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I really, really want to spell out "fork off" in electrical tape on my stomach and go through the x-ray scanner...but I'm sure that would get me arrested.

All right, now I will pull myself away from the internet and do some big-girl work.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:36 pm 
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I was watching some video of it and apparently you're supposed to put your arms up and you have to stand there for a sec. Fee, you'd know if it was that or a regular metal detector as best I can tell.

She's definitely wearing cuffs in the second video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXlMbsR0MMc&t=630 So frustrating. I would have freaked out.


Last edited by Thessaly on Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:39 pm 
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I'd stand like this

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:40 pm 
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Or you could just start moaning when they feel you up. Maybe we need a Fly Sexy Day after the Opt Out Day.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt Out Day
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:00 pm 
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I'm so glad the Oakland airport doesn't have one of those machines. SFO does and I will not be flying out of that airport until it's gone. If Oakland gets one I'll start flying out of San Jose if I have to.

The pat down actually sounds a lot worse than the naked xray machine to me.

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