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 Post subject: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:20 am 
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Has anyone else read this:

http://www.joshweed.com/2012/06/club-unicorn-in-which-i-come-out-of.html

I was reading along, thinking it was really interesting and it seemed like he was really together and it sounded like he and his wife really, really had been honest with each other and then he said this:

Quote:
"I believe the doctrine of the Mormon Church is true. One of the key doctrines of the church is that “marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.” Another is that “children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity.”


And I thought UGH! And the problem I have with it, is that it judges every other type of family, he doesn't explicitly say "I judge you" but by saying he deeply believes X the implication that Y is lesser is there.

Mat.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:31 am 
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I could go off on pages long rants about the LDS church, and feel fully justified in doing so since they profited off my membership for years, but I'll leave it short and simple: It's really sad that anyone would put that much trust and faith in an organization that flatly denies their right to be who they know they are.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:49 am 
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This makes me really, really sad.

I really hope he's happy. I hope he's being honest with himself and has the wisdom and strength to separate his beliefs/needs from what the church is telling him he believes and needs. No relationship is perfect, and I never want to judge, but this makes me so sad. And when it involves a family... I hope he's being true to himself.


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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Yeh, I've been reading Dan Savage's commentary on this-- his main issue is that if there's one open gay guy married to a woman (happily, he claims), then he will become the poster-child for not allowing same-sex marriage at all. Hey, if THAT GUY can be happy married to a lady, so you can you, ya homo! Get with a chick already and get over it!

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:40 pm 
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The odds are certainly stacked against them for that marriage working out long term.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:14 pm 
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"You might be having an emotional reaction of some kind to this post. We want you to know that that’s okay."

Fuc­k you.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Quote:
Being gay does not mean you are a sinner or that you are evil. Sin is in action, not in temptation or attraction. I feel this is a very important distinction. This is true for every single person. You don’t get to choose your circumstances, but you do get to choose what you do with them.

Don't worry gay folks, being gay is fine, you just can't be in a gay relationship having gay sex. Or, well, you can, but you'll be sinning. But everybody sins, so I'm not really judging you! But sins are immoral acts.

*brainsplode*

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:11 pm 
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I got to about here before my eyes started rolling uncontrollably

Quote:
I won’t get into the boring details of the research here, but basically when sex is done right, at its deepest level it is about intimacy. It is about one human being connecting with another human being they love. It is a beautiful physical manifestation of two people being connected in a truly vulnerable, intimate manner because they love each other profoundly. It is bodies connecting and souls connecting. It is beautiful and rich and fulfilling and spiritual and amazing. Many people never get to this point in their sex lives because it requires incredible communication, trust, vulnerability, and connection.


Oh, there's a correct way to "do" sex?


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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:22 pm 
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hee hee.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Dan Savage: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archiv ... t-explodes

Quote:
(...)"free to be you and me" is not the lesson anti-gay religious conservatives are going to draw from Josh Weed's case. They will hold Weed up as proof that there's no need for marriage equality or domestic partnerships or civil unions—no need to recognize same-sex couples under the law at all—because all gay people everywhere should follow Josh Weed's example. Society should encourage each of us to find an opposite-sex partner who is willing to marry us and who we can either fork successfully while thinking about gay sex or whom we feel so strongly about that we 1. actually enjoy forking or 2. will claim we enjoy forking in blog posts that our opposite-sex partners help us write. Unicorn Marriages—Weed describes himself as a unicorn—will be pushed as Plan B for gays and lesbians who flunk out of ex-gay ministries.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Chipmunk wrote:
I got to about here before my eyes started rolling uncontrollably

Quote:
I won’t get into the boring details of the research here, but basically when sex is done right, at its deepest level it is about intimacy. It is about one human being connecting with another human being they love. It is a beautiful physical manifestation of two people being connected in a truly vulnerable, intimate manner because they love each other profoundly. It is bodies connecting and souls connecting. It is beautiful and rich and fulfilling and spiritual and amazing. Many people never get to this point in their sex lives because it requires incredible communication, trust, vulnerability, and connection.


Oh, there's a correct way to "do" sex?


http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/06/11/by-josh-weeds-logic

Quote:
Basically any straight guy who wants a sex life that's as rich and fulfilling and amazing and spiritual and connected as the Gay Josh enjoys with Straight Lolly... should marry a gay dude. It's the only way to avoid powerful chems and infatuation and obsession and the rest of that actually-physically-attracted-to-your-spouse shiitake that, according to Josh, has wound up ruining the sex lives of most of the straight people that he personally knows.

You want a great sex life, straight boys? Take Josh's advice: find yourself a nice fag, someone you can connect with on a deeper level, and marry him.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:10 pm 
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just mumbles wrote:
fork you.

I have a list of favourite mumbles' quotes. This one shoots right to the top of the hit parade.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:26 pm 
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interrobang?! wrote:
just mumbles wrote:
fork you.

I have a list of favourite mumbles' quotes. This one shoots right to the top of the hit parade.

We should dump talking about hdog and talk about Mumbles instead. I'll see you on FB in 4 minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
interrobang?! wrote:
just mumbles wrote:
fork you.

I have a list of favourite mumbles' quotes. This one shoots right to the top of the hit parade.

We should dump talking about hdog and talk about Mumbles instead. I'll see you on FB in 4 minutes.

I don't believe we have talked of hdog in months. You talk up his part, everso. Also, I am ASLEEP.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Quote:
I am sexually attracted to men. I am not sexually attracted to women. It is very simple. I have many, many years of experience which confirm this to be true, but it’s really as simple as what a girl asked me* in junior high—and I’m sorry if this is a little blunt, but I’ve never found a question that cuts to the heart of the matter more effectively— “so, if everyone in this room took off their clothes, would you be turned on by the girls or the guys?” My answer, which I didn’t say out loud, was unquestionably the guys. And it was unquestionably not the girls.


He contradicts himself ... a lot. If he's not attracted to women, he's not attracted to his wife. He may have found a way to have sex with her but he's not really sexually attracted to her.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:55 pm 
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I'm trying to let this go but...he needs to stop saying that he feels "compassion" for those poor gay people. Also, fork him for suggesting that the only real family is one composed of children and their biological parents. I presume that adoptive parents are also artificial?

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Ruby Rose wrote:
The odds are certainly stacked against them for that marriage working out long term.

As long as they are sincere members of the Mormon faith, they will stay married. I think that is a big motivating force for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Why did the woman marry him? Wouldn't she want to have married a straight man who was actually attracted to her not just to make proper, god-ordained babies and be in a proper, god-ordained family?

If I were that woman, I would feel like I was being used just to help make this guy feel like he wasn't a sinner. That's not cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:25 pm 
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I don't see this as a big deal. It sounds like he is a gay man in love with and attracted to a woman. I'm not a fan of the sin talk, but I don't think hisbeing gay is dooming his relationship. It's not like he has to fit in a particular box just because he is gay.


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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:43 pm 
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I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this. I keep trying, and then getting annoyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:05 pm 
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chaioli wrote:
Why did the woman marry him? Wouldn't she want to have married a straight man who was actually attracted to her not just to make proper, god-ordained babies and be in a proper, god-ordained family?

If I were that woman, I would feel like I was being used just to help make this guy feel like he wasn't a sinner. That's not cool.


Well, she married him knowing that he was gay. He'd told her when they were 16. So it's not like he surprised her with this after they were already married.


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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:32 am 
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kimba wrote:
I don't see this as a big deal. It sounds like he is a gay man in love with and attracted to a woman. I'm not a fan of the sin talk, but I don't think hisbeing gay is dooming his relationship. It's not like he has to fit in a particular box just because he is gay.


Had he simply said that he loves his wife and family, and was happy and didn't need to start a new relationship, then that wouldn't be a big deal.

The problem with this is that by invoking the Mormon Church's beliefs as a reason for him to stay in the marriage, he's implicitly stating that it is immoral to engage in a same-sex relationship. Not only does he show his hand at denial (love isn't the only reason he's staying with his wife), but he's passing judgment on anyone who decides to not sacrifice their own happiness and well-being by repressing their sexuality. He may say in those final paragraphs that it is absolutely wrong to judge, but he already has. And doing so doesn't isn't innocuous--it can elicit some seriously damaging consequences for others who are already afraid to live as themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:42 pm 
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I don't know...is it shitty? For sure. But...he's a religious gay dude who can't even begin to live honestly because his religion (and culture at large) is homophobic. I just feel sorry for him. It sounds like he's tried to reconcile his sexuality and his faith and has found a way that (for now at least) works.

As to the idea that homophobes will use this as justification for inequality, maybe. But their arguments don't actually stand on reason. They stand on outright bigotry. They don't need to point to this guy and say "see, gayz?! Marry a woman!", because all of their arguments stand on the "EWWW GAY" principle which is as far from reason and logic as possible. Homophobes are gonna be homophobes regardless of whether this guy sleeps with men or his wife.

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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:35 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
Homophobes are gonna be homophobes regardless of whether this guy sleeps with men or his wife.


That is pretty much what I was thinking.


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 Post subject: Re: Gay mormon who is married to a woman
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:02 am 
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j-dub wrote:
I don't know...is it shitty? For sure. But...he's a religious gay dude who can't even begin to live honestly because his religion (and culture at large) is homophobic. I just feel sorry for him. It sounds like he's tried to reconcile his sexuality and his faith and has found a way that (for now at least) works.

As to the idea that homophobes will use this as justification for inequality, maybe. But their arguments don't actually stand on reason. They stand on outright bigotry. They don't need to point to this guy and say "see, gayz?! Marry a woman!", because all of their arguments stand on the "EWWW GAY" principle which is as far from reason and logic as possible. Homophobes are gonna be homophobes regardless of whether this guy sleeps with men or his wife.


But what about the readers who are, like himself, religious and gay and maybe don't want to make the same choice he's made? This is an article that's had a large readership--and it wasn't even published that long ago. I agree that he's not going to further strengthen homophobes--they do that for themselves. But I do think it's a realistic concern that this could discourage some readers from being true to themselves.

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