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 Post subject: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:23 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O87ROJfj4JM
"An Appeal from Jonathan Safran Foer"


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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Without commenting, I will note that the website Foer is supporting does have some photos of factory farmed chickens. Just a warning.

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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:52 pm 
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sigh.

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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Oh, thanks Vantine-- it didn't occur to me to check out the site.


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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:18 pm 
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It's always a good idea to check out the site which is pretty much in tune with his book (he's not vegan, by the way). He's against the abuses of factory farming. The app does let you search for only meat free options which might help someone who is trying to transition away from meat. It's part of an effort to support Farm Forward which apparently helped Kathy Freston "complete the Veganist." Who knew?

Foer is a board member of Farm Forward. Here's a link for those who are interested: http://www.farmforward.com/about-us/our-work

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Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:46 pm 
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I'm torn. As someone on this side of the things, I find it annoying. On the other hand, if someone is actually trying to make better choices about where their meat comes from, then hopefully that also means they're cutting back on overall consumption, too. I guess I think any step toward a more compassionate lifestyle is a plus, even if it's just a teeny baby step. I know figuring out that "free range" was actually BS meant a lot to me.


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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Eating Animals does not have kind words for happy meat and I have so much appreciation for Foer's rebuttals to Pollan. Foer has also made a point of not referring to animals as food. It was that language he used in the video that struck me as incongruous with my impression of him. I think a lot of us were hoping he was moving toward veganism, and this makes you wonder if he's moving away instead. I know we're not supposed to care about celebrities and all that, but he's such a damn good writer and an invaluable voice for animals. I would be sad to see him become a voice simply for food instead.


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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:05 pm 
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I just got off the phone with JSF about all this. Some points to consider: since completing Eating Animals he's moved closer and closer to being vegan. He doesn't eat meat, and he certainly has not gone back to eating chicken. In fact he told me he's only moving forward in regard to his diet and would never take a step back. My sense from talking to him is his diet is a hair away from meeting a stringently-defined use of the word vegan.

As I understand it, Farm Forward's key people are all vegan.

The motivation for doing this video isn't to speak to potential vegans. There are all sorts of videos, some of which featuring JSF, that make strong pitches for becoming vegan. The point of this video is to speak to the people for whom going vegan is currently out of the question. I think we can all agree that if someone insists on eating chicken, it's far better for them to buy one that's pasture-raised than it is to buy some brutalized bird from a Tyson contractor. That doesn't make me or Jonathan or any vegan happy about the idea of eating chicken, however well the bird may be treated before slaughter.

As he said to me in regard to the video:

Quote:
This is not my favorite way about speaking the issue and I do feel some serious discomfort about suggesting there are better ways to buy chicken. I don't think there's a good way to buy chicken.


He went on to say, "Ultimate success comes from a variety of approaches," and then stressed the importance of having an uncompromising base within the vegan community who advocates nothing but veganism at every turn. He understands why this group would speak out against a video like the one he just created.

I believe it took a lot of courage for him to do this video, as he certainly knew that numerous people within the vegan community would flame him mercilessly on the Internet. JSF has inspired vastly more people to go vegan than just about anyone else I can think of. I think it's clear that his motivation for doing this video was pure and selfless. He has not by any means—as I've seen proclaimed elsewhere on line—started shilling for the chicken industry. He simply realizes that there are currently people who cannot be persuaded to abandon chicken, but who can readily be persuaded to stop eating the cruelest factory farmed crepe.


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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:14 pm 
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That makes a lot of sense, Erik. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Yeah, thanks Erik, that's awesome! I haven't read about this anywhere else (if I see something I'm wondering about, I like to post here first), but it's a bummer he's being mercilessly flamed elsewhere. Like I said, his words just didn't seem right to me, and it's great to know there's a reason behind it.


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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Thanks for the kind words, Rayne. I hope you'll paste my post into the discussion forums you've encountered where you've been seeing JSF get flamed. I think it's abundantly clear that people have jumped to some unfair conclusions about this video.


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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Thanks Erik! I really appreciate the clarification.

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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:04 pm 
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I will if I run into any Erik-- like i said, I haven't seen anything elsewhere as of yet. There was just a post on facebook with no explanation. It seemed so weird to me to hear him say "cage-free food", so I came straight here to find out what was going on. Now I have; thanks again!

I totally see the psychology and reasoning behind meeting people where they are and exposing them to information you don't necessarily agree with but which they might be more likely to be open to. I guess when you've been vegan for a while, it's easy to forget that perspective sometimes (holy crepe, i just realized my 12th veganniversary was on the 9th this month and i totally missed it, hehe). I feel bad for him having to speak words that don't ring true for him.... he even seems to hesitate before saying the word "food".... but now I get why he did it and it's a relief. I'm sure this new site/app will expose people to enough uncomfortable information that many of them will in fact go vegan.


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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Thank you SO much Erik for your post and taking the time to share with us. JSF influenced me greatly and helped motivate me to go vegan after 2 years of being vegetarian.

I think I have a tendeency to be a bit snobbish and elitist when it comes to my vegan diet. I have to always remind myself to be positive, kind, and encouraging to those who are trying their best. For example, meatless Mondays are a great step for a healthier body and environment. I think vegans (myself included) can have a black and white mentality. I'm working on being more accepting to those diets in the 'gray' because after all, you can catch more flies with honey (or agave) than vinegar!

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 Post subject: Re: what the fizzle Jonathan Safran Foer??
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Thanks Erik, but I don't think anyone critiquing the video is necessarily "flaming him mercilessly" just as an aside. I disagree with his support of the video and I think that we can all have an interesting dialogue on the video including necessary critiques.


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