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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:42 am 
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Raygold has *finally* started sleeping better (i.e. not waking up ever 1.5-3 hours all night), so I started putting both the kids to bed at 7pm to get a little time to myself. of course, this means they wake me up at 6:30, but those extra evening hours here in the Scottish summer, when the sun doesn't set until long after 10 and it never quite gets dark -- those extra hours to myself are priceless. (Ideally, I should be in the bath, sipping wine/tea or reading by the window, but usually I am doing dishes and folding laundry. It's still nice, though.)

Our bedtime routine is brushing teeth, PJs, and a story.

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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:08 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
Also, I would be mega-sad if she wasn't supersnuggly at 2, which I guess is going to happen.

You can't tell whether she'll be snuggly until the time comes! LittleBodhi is 4 now, and he is more snuggly than ever. He can sleep in his own room/bed, but he is so happy to come snuggle with me in my bed, and when we settle down to sleep, he puts his arms around me like we're hugging. Sometimes he'll smush our faces together so we're even more cuddly. He is so cute. He is a snuggling champ. (Daytime too! On the couch, on the bus, anywhere.)

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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:37 am 
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I feel like a total square posting this, but I do keep my kids on a schedule. Not like a rigidly unwavering schedule, but a schedule nonetheless. Of course I hate the nap trap and not being able to do what I want exactly when I want to, but I feel like there's freedom in discipline or something. Both of my kids showed me what their sleepy times were and I followed from there - watching their sleep cues around the time it seemed like they would need a nap and making it possible for them to get some rest then. For my son, that might have been in a sling, in the car, or in bed with me; for my daughter that's her own crib. The payoff is that they are both pretty predictable sleepers and since they don't typically get overtired, we don't have a ton of sleep drama. I can reasonably schedule activities for times I know everyone will be awake and cheerful, and push it a little for special occasions. Before anyone hates my guts, please let me say we have plenty of awake-every-two hours nights (teething, sickness, general baby nuttiness) but going to sleep is usually not too hard. I completely admire my friends who go with the flow but I think how successful that is depends a lot on your kid's flexibility. My guys really seem to like a predictable day - not that we never do anything fun, just that there's a rhythm to the day that they can count on. My little one is a sleepy kid and insists on an early bedtime, but both of them eventually roughly followed a 2-3-4 schedule (first nap two hours after wakeup, second nap three hours after that wakeup, bedtime four hours after that wakeup.)

Here's what it looks like for my 10-month-old:

6-7am: wake up
7:30 breakfast
9:30am: morning nap
11am: wake up
12 lunch
2pm: afternoon nap
3:30pm: wake up
5:30pm dinner
6:30-7pm: bedtime

My three-year-old doesn't nap anymore, so he's up at 7am, down at 8pm. A little later if he naps at preschool. Anyway...nobody is as surprised as me to have a schedule like this, but it seriously makes my life easier to have everyone be well rested and feeling good, for me to know when I can get some work done, make a phone call, run some errands. I feel extremely lame to admit this among all you freewheelin' spontaneous fun-havers, but lameness seems to be my natural state now that I'm a parent, so hey!


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:37 am 
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I'm not sure why you feel that way about a routine, Axel Foley. Everyone does what is best for their own family, I think most of us here feel that way.

Lorelei is going to bed at night without a fight. I don't know if it is related, but as soon as we started the transition to the crib her separation anxiety abated A LOT. Like, overnight. It was sooooo bad a few weeks ago. When we would get home for the day or even right after waking up in the morning and I would set her down in her play area she would immediately start crying and whining. The CDC though... that's where it got crazy. As soon as I would set her down she would cling to my clothing and start screaming. I don't know how I feel about forcing independence on her. I was doing everything right (I thought)... but every time I was around her it was non stop crying or whining.

If I came to the CDC to see her at lunch she would start crying immediately upon seeing me and just throw a fit the whole time. She just smiles at me now. It's been about 2 weeks.

She's sleeping happily in the crib right now and it is 6:30, all the dishes are done and the house is for the most part, clean.

Everything has changed. Right now I would be pacing with her in my arms trying desperately for her to go to sleep so that I could carefully lay her down and hope that it wouldn't wake her. If it did (and it usually did) it was just a rinse and repeat. Then she would wake every 45 minutes and only go back to sleep nursing. My whole body ached from constant side-lying nursing at night.

Anyway... naps are still a pain in the butt.

I also feel like my supply is not sufficient anymore to keep her satisfied at night and that was contributing to the night waking. I am only getting about 3oz total when I pump at work every 3 hours and my freezer stash is starting to dwindle. She is eating solid foods really well, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:27 am 
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axelfoley, I totally feel you on the schedule thing - many of my friends kinda rolled their eyes when we'd leave somewhere early or not go at all because Dahlia naps from 3-5. I mean, she's been napping at that time for almost 3 years and I'm so lucky she even still naps that there is no way in hell I ever want to mess with that, ya know? Sure, it's nice that their kids would nap in a stroller in the middle of a punx picnic in the park, but that doesn't work for us! Then she goes to bed around 9:30 and is up anytime between 7:30-9. She has always liked sleeping on her own, surprisingly...and a few people told me she wouldn't be much of a snuggler because we didn't breastfeed very long or co-sleep but man they were wrong - that kid loves hugs and kisses, and wants to "hold Mama" a lot!

I can't help looking forward to some kinda predictableness with Sierra, but eh she's only 6 weeks old and I gotta be patient...right now I'm not even sure she sleeps enough. If we stay home all day she will take a 4 hour nap right in the middle of the afternoon but here at work she'll sleep on the subway on the way in and continue to sleep if I continue to wear her...if I take her out of the sling or moby, all bets are off. And she's up till almost midnight most nights, then up to nurse maybe 3-4 times in the night. I try to start her off to sleep in her little chair so I can get a few hours of being sprawled in the bed with my man, but by about 3am she's in there with us.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:31 am 
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ds, I'm blown away by how quickly things changed for you guys! Really amazing. It's always something, but it sounds like you're in an awesome groove with nighttime sleep.

I had just noticed a few comments about "a mom who always has to rush home for naps" and because that's me, I probably read it as "this uptight mom who always has to rush home for naps". I wanted to show why someone might make the choice for more structure...plus, someone's got to represent for the uptight of the world. :) This is a very accepting community and I'm glad there's room for all of us here.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:05 pm 
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My posts probably sound anti schedule but I'm really just trying to make myself feel better about not being on one! I wish I could follow one but I found myself getting annoyed with babynut for not napping according to plan. I need to relax. I'm jealous of the schedule. Everyone has to do what works for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:57 am 
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I am thinking about becoming more scheduled, because what we're doing now is not working anymore. Until now we've just woken up whenever, usually between 6-7, but occasionally Walter sleeps in until 8 or gets up at sunrise (those are rough mornings). Then we putter around and have breakfast, play with stuff, and run errands or go to the library or playground. Lunch around 11:30-noon, long nap, walk the dog in the late afternoon, make dinner, bed around 8.

The problem we're having is that the morning is too long--he usually can't hold out until after lunch. Which means we can't go anywhere in the car after about 10, because he will fall asleep, wake up when we get home, and then even if he only slept 15 minutes in the car, refuse to nap the rest of the day. That happened yesterday--we visited my friend who has 16 month old twin boys, had a great morning, left at 10:30, and he fell asleep during the 30 minute car ride. Then he was awake (but tired! But refusing to sleep!) the rest of the day, grouching at me, I was frazzled, felt like an awful mother, etc.

Today we got up at 7 and by 9:30 he was yawning and rubbing his eyes and begging to nurse, so I put him down for a nap at 10am, so now we will miss the farmers' market. I have no idea whether he will sleep for 30 minutes or 3 hours, and whether we will be able to meet friends for dinner at 5:30 or have to stay home because he is too grouchy.

My resistance to having a schedule is that it would prevent us from doing things, but we can't do things now because he's always crabby or falling asleep at odd times. Maybe if I do early lunch around 10:30 and make nap time strictly at 11? I am at my wit's end here.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:30 am 
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Mitten, I need to do something like that with Lydia. We eat breakfast within an hour of getting up (7-8), a large mid-morning snack 2-3 hours after breakfast (10-11), nap around 11 or 12, post-nap lunch (whenever she wakes up-- as early as noon, sometimes as late as 3), sometimes a small afternoon snack (depends on when she ate lunch, and how much she ate), and then dinner whenever Daddy gets home. It seems to work for us.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:55 am 
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mitten, I remember the transition from two naps to one as being really hard. My dude would wake up early one day, then want to nap at 8:30, then the rest of the day would suck so hard. Or like you said, fall asleep in the car on the way somewhere...argh. I of course jinxed myself by posting about our schedule, so this morning everyone woke up at 5:45 and now I'm a wreck. Had to keep the baby up so we could take her brother to preschool and she alternated between screeching and zombified from about 8-9. Now she's asleep and I'm staggering around putting the house back together since they had three hours to destroy it this morning and they really did it up. Good times!


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:45 pm 
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Axel Foley wrote:
I had just noticed a few comments about "a mom who always has to rush home for naps" and because that's me, I probably read it as "this uptight mom who always has to rush home for naps". I wanted to show why someone might make the choice for more structure...plus, someone's got to represent for the uptight of the world. :) This is a very accepting community and I'm glad there's room for all of us here.


My apologies if you felt slighted! I made the comment, because I was genuinely curious as to whether I was messing my kid up by not scheduling her. I don't think my friend who is very scheduled is uptight - she runs her own business and is a stay at home mom, so having regular nap times means that she can be on conference calls etc and get work done - I think she is a superstar, and her kids are so well cared for. I am in no position to judge anyone, I am still such a n00b and just trying to figure out how to make it to tomorrow.

Leela might be getting too tired in the day, because I feel like we are always circling the drain. My day consists of cycles excited squeaking, rubbing eyes, fussing, unhappy squawking, breast-feeding and all too brief nap, repeat ad infinitum from 6:30 am to 8:30 pm. The silver lining is that she sleeps like a champ from 8:30 to 6:30 am. I didn't schedule any fun things today, so she can get a proper nap for once.

We have the skeleton of a structure - wake between 6:30 and 7:30, read "Llama Lama Wakie Wake," I make breakfast and then she and I go to feed the feral cats, we eat together and that gets us to 9 am, by which she is eye-rubbing and ready for her first nap. I put her down and pray for an hour, but mostly get about 30 mins. Then we wake up and go walk the dog, and are out until about 2ish. Come home and have lunch, and then back for another nap. The guilt comes because I routinely schedule stuff that starts at 10 or noon and screws her out of her afternoon nap, and then she gets overtired and miserable. But I can't really stay home alone every day all day because I would go mad.

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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:47 am 
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Tofulish, I love that your day is sure to include excited squeaking. So good.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:28 am 
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Daytime sleep for us is always really hard. I let her sleep in the car seat in the car on the way home after work for like 30 minutes after we get home so that she's not a Zombie Baby. She often gets a nap in the car on the way to the CDC in the morning as well. As far as when she is there, I have no control over that and it depends who is working that day. The CDC itself right now is in the middle of a crisis and they can't keep employees. They have been dropping like flies for months and now it's pretty much ALL TRAINEES in a room that is at max capacity. I'm lucky if Lorelei gets a nap at all and doesn't get hurt every day.

But I digress. When she is at home, nap time for us is so hard. I don't know what to do with her. The night time methods that worked so well for her have no impact during the day. I feel like I should stick to what the schedule is usually on days where I work so I don't screw up her routine too much. So, I try to feed her breakfast around 0700 and a breastfeeding 0800 (we wake up between 0430 and 0530). She starts looking pretty sleepy around 0900, at which point I try to figure out what's going to put her to sleep. She is very resistant. She is very hard to settle down. Earlier today, I was breastfeeding her and both of her legs were going like crazy and she was smacking me in the chest with her loose hand. She's just a little ball of energy.

So, I try and figure out somewhere to go or something to do that will wind up with me and her in the car... this is really sad. Anyway, lunch is around 1100 and She likes to get a nap in around 12 but lately that hasn't been happening. Today she got her second nap around 1500 but I had to put her in the baby carrier till she fell asleep then I laid down on the bed propped up with some pillows so I could get some sleep too. I could have easily moved her at that point since she was in a pretty deep sleep but we just laid there anyway. So, at 10 months I am still relying on these crutches to get her to go to sleep.

I tried putting her in the crib but she screams immediately and there is no soothing her while she is in the crib no matter what I do. I wish I knew the magic trick to getting her to sleep in the day. It's always been pretty rough. I know other parents all have their own issues that they deal with but I am often jealous when I see other people's kids just fall asleep on their own for a nap on their playmat or whatever and post pictures on Facebook "Ohhh he's all tuckered out how ccuuuutte!" or something. Lorelei has never randomly fallen asleep doing anything. She even hated the swing we bought her. She just wanted to be attached to me at all times.

Everything I read told me that babies are more independent when they develop a strong sense of attachment and security but I sometimes wonder if I went wrong baby wearing and co-sleeping... I have a lot of trouble not comparing my baby to other people's babies and how they behave. I know I did the right thing though and that whole bonding period after she was born brought us really close and helped me develop my own bond.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:48 pm 
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::Butting into parenting thread where I don't belong.:: When I was a baby, my mom always drove me around in the car to get me to take a nap (actually, I still fall asleep in the car really easily if I'm not driving). I needed that or my dad walking me up and down the steps. So maybe if it works just go with it?

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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:41 am 
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dragonssister wrote:
Daytime sleep for us is always really hard. I let her sleep in the car seat in the car on the way home after work for like 30 minutes after we get home so that she's not a Zombie Baby. She often gets a nap in the car on the way to the CDC in the morning as well. As far as when she is there, I have no control over that and it depends who is working that day. The CDC itself right now is in the middle of a crisis and they can't keep employees. They have been dropping like flies for months and now it's pretty much ALL TRAINEES in a room that is at max capacity. I'm lucky if Lorelei gets a nap at all and doesn't get hurt every day.

But I digress. When she is at home, nap time for us is so hard. I don't know what to do with her. The night time methods that worked so well for her have no impact during the day. I feel like I should stick to what the schedule is usually on days where I work so I don't screw up her routine too much. So, I try to feed her breakfast around 0700 and a breastfeeding 0800 (we wake up between 0430 and 0530). She starts looking pretty sleepy around 0900, at which point I try to figure out what's going to put her to sleep. She is very resistant. She is very hard to settle down. Earlier today, I was breastfeeding her and both of her legs were going like crazy and she was smacking me in the chest with her loose hand. She's just a little ball of energy.

So, I try and figure out somewhere to go or something to do that will wind up with me and her in the car... this is really sad. Anyway, lunch is around 1100 and She likes to get a nap in around 12 but lately that hasn't been happening. Today she got her second nap around 1500 but I had to put her in the baby carrier till she fell asleep then I laid down on the bed propped up with some pillows so I could get some sleep too. I could have easily moved her at that point since she was in a pretty deep sleep but we just laid there anyway. So, at 10 months I am still relying on these crutches to get her to go to sleep.

I tried putting her in the crib but she screams immediately and there is no soothing her while she is in the crib no matter what I do. I wish I knew the magic trick to getting her to sleep in the day. It's always been pretty rough. I know other parents all have their own issues that they deal with but I am often jealous when I see other people's kids just fall asleep on their own for a nap on their playmat or whatever and post pictures on Facebook "Ohhh he's all tuckered out how ccuuuutte!" or something. Lorelei has never randomly fallen asleep doing anything. She even hated the swing we bought her. She just wanted to be attached to me at all times.

Everything I read told me that babies are more independent when they develop a strong sense of attachment and security but I sometimes wonder if I went wrong baby wearing and co-sleeping... I have a lot of trouble not comparing my baby to other people's babies and how they behave. I know I did the right thing though and that whole bonding period after she was born brought us really close and helped me develop my own bond.

We are having similar issues. He is very hard to settle unless he is totally zonked out. I keep wondering if the attachment parenting made him too dependent on me, sometimes I am going crazy. he cannot fall asleep for a nap without a crutch. At night he has started (on many nights) to eat until sleepy and unlatch, act like a drunkard and then fall asleep on his own. It is hilarious and makes me happy he can sleep without boob in mouth. No help really, just commiseration.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm 
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We have a bed time routine that works, praise the Lard!

We go through Llama Llama Nightie Night, and do all the stuff (dinner, brushing teeth, giving her a sponge bath, changing her diap, picking out a book that my husband and I read to her, and then she nurses to sleep). Tonight it took 30 minutes. It was heaven.

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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:12 pm 
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there are pros and cons to scheduling and not scheduling, and in the end, your kid decides (as much as we'd like to think we do). we are fairly unscheduled, but we can be, because tzipi is and always has been pretty laid back about sleep stuff. she gets droopy and sleepy when she's tired, not cranky or nutty, so keeping her out past her nap is really not a big sacrifice, especially since she sleeps more or less the same amount regardless of when.

today my friend (another unscheduler) and i met up to go to the wading pool. nap is usually around 1pm (because that's how daycare does it) but my friend was running behind, so it was 1 before we even got to the pool. the kids played hard in the pool for 2 hours and then we walked home. tzipi was a bit whiny, but it was really hot out... normally she would have just fallen asleep in the stroller. then they played for another hour together at home, slowly getting sleepier and sleepier, but over all in good spirits. then when they went home, tzipi zonked out for 3 hours, got up for dinner and a bath, and zonked out again.

my other friend (strict scheduler) would have just cancelled, which would have been a shame, but her kid is also just not that great when he's out of his routine, so it would have been miserable for her and him. i'd also say she has a lower tolerance for things being all higgledy-piggledy anyway, which is just a personality thing. i will put up with a little chaos for the chance to do something fun during the day... not everyone thinks it's worth it. and i probably wouldn't find it worth it if i had a kid whose naps would be screwed up for days or who screamed bloody murder because they were up when they're usually napping.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:16 pm 
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My husband's been gone for the weekend, and Ezra decided that he was done with naps starting on Saturday. Fork, I'm exhausted.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:47 pm 
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I had a really hard weekend too. I did everything to try and get Lorelei to nap it was so tiring. I wish it were easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Leela has been sick all weekend, so she has been very tired and napping a lot. She was also very quiet and subdued, so we started her bedtime routine early - too early (6 instead of 7) but it worked albeit everything took longer. I just hope she feels better and doesn't wake every 2 hours, boiling hot to the touch and screaming like last night.

fork that sucked. Poor little muffin.

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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:11 pm 
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I have come to the conclusion that sleep is going to suck for the next 17 years at least. Maybe if I just give in I won't feel so frustrated.

Grey is napping right now, it is after 5. Totally screwed for tonight. He has two teeth about to pop out and hasn't been sleeping well, so I want him to rest, but I don't want to be up until midnight tonight either.

S, kinda funny. Nate's also napping, so really Nate will be up tonight, but anyway, they were both sleeping and the cat started meowing. Nate was snoring pretty loudly too, Nate wakes up and says that I should get the cat cause she is going to wake up Grey. Yeah, if your snoring didn't wake him, no worried. It was pretty funny.


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Tofulish, I hope Leela's healthy again soon... Sick baby = the worst.

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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Poor leela! Hope she is feeling better soon!


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Thanks! She doesn't have a fever any longer, but still has a runny nose. And Lard is she cranky. Apparently the only thing that cheered her up this morning was biting my nipple. I ended up just taking her wailing screaming self for a 2.5 mile walk and thank goodness she just fell asleep and got well over an hour nap. I just want my happy little baby back!

Plus, I made the huge mistake last night of thinking she was down and taking a benadryl bc I couldn't stop sneezing. Normally I take a half, but I took a full one. I ended up sleeping so hard that when she woke up my partner had to take her for an hour and a half to put her back to sleep bc I was too groggy to do anything. And although I've been up since 6:30, I am still groggy. Benadryl + 2 prior nights of poor sleep apparently = semi-coma for me.

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But on a cold winter night, when the wind whispers through the trees and a bright, white moon hangs heavy in the air, you might hear a sad cry like someone thinking he knows what's best for you, and that'll be the white man a-passin' you by. just mumbles


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 Post subject: Re: Go the Fork to Sleep
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:04 pm 
Should Write a Goddam Book Already
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 1034
Location: 'Burbs of California
Kid, please, please continue waking up at 6:30 am. I can deal with that. I can't deal with you getting up at 4:30-5 every morning. (I can't believe I'm happy to get up at 6:30 in the morning-- it's amazing how much my idea of "sleeping in" has changed.)


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