| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:56 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:09 pm 
***LIES!!!***
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 3428
Over the past couple of weeks Malka has figured out how to throw a temper tantrum. She also has categorically rejected sitting in a high chair. She absolutely freaks out if we don't let her crawl all over a table in a restaurant (which we don't) or if she can't play with something she wants to play with. She goes into ballistic screechy destructive mode, sometimes for several minutes. It could be that our vacation, which just ended, messed up her sense of normal and she will go back to being at least somewhat manageable in public, but even though we planned every day around getting her lots and lots of on-the-ground play time, one of us still had to spend almost every meal chasing her around restaurants or outside while the other ate. She doesn't even want to be held hardly ever, she just wants to be down on the ground, attempting to climb everything, and exploring/destroying - pretty much every waking minute. Seriously everybody we met on our trip thought we were the worst parents in the world, letting our kid crawl around on sidewalks or under tables (finding things to eat off the floor). But what's the alternative? Letting her scream the whole meal as we force her back into the high chair over and over again?

Is this just the way it's going to be? Will she grow into being able to sit for at least five minutes at some point (in the near future, please God)? Is she just high energy (am I looking toward a future of ADHD?)?

Does anyone have any ideas about disciplining or setting boundaries for a baby/young toddler? Malka is ten months now. I get that she is not going to a) remember me saying "no" or making a stop-doing-that-noise and b) that she is not going to be able to generalize "no" in one moment to other moments of life. But really, is there nothing to be done? Are our being out in public days over for awhile?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:40 am 
Addicted to B12 Enemas
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 263
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Woah, does that sound challenging. My little gal is 10 months old also and although it's not happening with the same ferocity, I definitely see that this is an age where she's interested in testing boundaries and exploring her new physical skills.

My daughter's most hated activity is getting dressed - she screeches like a wildcat every single time. It never seems to get better, regardless of how slow/fast I go, how much I explain, try to talk her through it - it just always sucks. My point is this - she's my second child, and my firstborn was totally helping me to dress him at her age. He could poke his arms through the sleeves, the whole deal, without complaint. So I know that it's not like I had an awesome method, and now I have a bad one, it's just that kids are born being who they are and we learn to work with what they've got. Sometimes their personalities are really button-pushing for us, sometimes they're an easy fit. Your daughter will probably always be a driven, curious person, and when she's older and using her powers for good, you'll hopefully look back and laugh about what an intense little maniac she was. She's way too young to assess for ADHD and please don't fret about that - babies and little kids are by nature relentless and 1000x more energetic than we big, tired people.

As far as discipline for babies, remember that discipline is teaching. Your job now is to keep her safe and show her the rules of living in her environment. For touching dangerous stuff, a strong "no" or "hot" can really make an impact. I haven't found it to be true that my kids don't remember "no" - it's not instantaneous, but over a period of time, if I'm consistent, they seem to lose interest in pushing that limit (leave the dog's water alone, don't walk across the heater vent...) Or with stuff like biting, or snatching glasses off your face, you can just put her down. For the public displays of big feelings...hmmm...I know everyone has a different tolerance for that stuff but for me I would stay home for a while until this particular fascination has lost some of its charge. If you're ok with it and she's safe being on the floor, that seems like a totally valid choice too. If she's really focused and causing a ruckus, what about picking her up and exploring the room with her for a moment? I find even at this age, undivided attention can sometimes be the fix.

What about the amazing power of distraction? Not distracting her from her feelings, but when she's really determined to crawl all over the place and tear the joint down, is there some shiny object that will buy you a few extra minutes? My daughter loves a sippy cup right now - it's a drink, it's a weapon, it's a mystery to be solved. Car keys, cel phone, metal spoon, a new special toy that's been saved for the occasion...all these objects of desire can possibly get you through a meal.

For what it's worth, I was really intense as a kid and made my mom cry out of frustration and exhaustion all the time - she refers to having "survived" my childhood. Now I'm a normal enough grownup, but I've retained that ability to be laser focused and get what I want (for better or worse.) I hope things are not so gnarly soon! All things must pass...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:40 pm 
Semen Strong
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 18627
Location: Cliffbar NJ
Is it really that much worse than all the babies were at Soy & Sake (except BBnut obvs :)) and Kaya's when we went together? And others here seem to have similar exeriences. Plus any shift in routine seems hard on them.

I don't think Leela has much tolerance for highchairs anymore. She can do brunch (in under 45 mins), but dinner requires a tagteam effort. Last time I was supposed to go to dinner and take her, I wussed out and just left her home with B and had a wonderful, quiet, meal with adult convo and an ability to taste my food. Even at home, she eats and then is done with her chair and wants out in about 20 mins. She has a wee stomach and once its full, food loses its entertainment potential.

I may be biased bc I adore Malka, but she doesn't seem that different from other kids the same age. I've read that babies don't remember the No past 20 seconds, so I don't know if you can do much to discipline, you just have to manage around them and their tiny spans of attention. But I may be wrong. And Pinko has more relevant experience, but for me, every day is a battle to keep her from eating dog food and bathing in the dog bowl, and a thousand Nos have made zero impact, except that she now stuffs her cheeks extra fast.

Either way, hugs to you and Mr A and Malka.

_________________
But on a cold winter night, when the wind whispers through the trees and a bright, white moon hangs heavy in the air, you might hear a sad cry like someone thinking he knows what's best for you, and that'll be the white man a-passin' you by. just mumbles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:28 pm 
Drinks Wild Tofurkey
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:51 am
Posts: 2770
We usually take turns walking grey around or go to restaurants he can crawl around at until the food comes. As soon as we are done eating one takes him while the other pays the bill. I don't love it, but we can eat out this way.

With non-food items or things i don't want him to eat I say "yucky" instead of no. I don't know if this is a good tactic but otherwise I feel like I say no all the freaking time. I also hope it helps him distinguish between things we put in our mouths and other things. Also, grey said no for the first time last week and I really don't want the baby that says no constantly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:51 pm 
***LIES!!!***
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 3428
Tofulish, yes, it's getting worse than it was when we last ate together (although even then, my memory is that Malka is the only one who utterly refused any sitting at the table at all). I'm impressed that Leela will sit in her high chair at home for 20 minutes! Malka is definitely more tolerant of the high chair at home, though, because it really puts her in lock down and escape is much more unlikely.

Distraction methods seem to not be working as well or for as long as they once were.

I will try to be more consistent with "yucky"s and "hot"s and such, maybe she'll catch on. And we'll try to go out when she's napping!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:19 am 
Seagull of the PPK
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 7204
Location: Brasil
i don't think we really took the kids out to restaurants til about age 1 (we had immunity issues so for year 1 we pretty much stayed home), then we kept them mostly in the stroller unless they wanted to be up high with us.

i think the thing with the tantrums is, from the very beginning, to pay them no mind or to have them lead to negative results. kids throw tantrums because they work. at an older age, you can say "if you have a tantrum, we're leaving" and then, really, leave if there's a tantrum. but at 10m you can't, so you can just simply not give attention for tantrummy behavior.
really, she just sounds like a normal kid.

re the "no" thing- we didn't really say no very much. when you say "no" you expect the kid to stop, and even for a few years yet she won't be able to control herself that much. I agree it's better to tell the kid why - "yucky", "danger", "hot"- so that the lesson really gets there. we were of the opinion that it was better to clear the area of dangerous stuff and then just simply let the kid do what comes naturally.
we also did a lot with natural consequences- this is more in line with AxelFoley than younger kids- instead of saying "danger, you're going to get hurt" 500 times, after the second time, let the kid wack herself in the face with that ruler. She'll figure it out. Obviously there are limits to this, but we decided there would be no nagging. Kids are smart, and BELIEVE ME, there are 50,000,000 more battles ahead in your parenting future, do you want to waste your energy now when the teenage years are waiting for you?
I'm thinking about getting changed. FC used to get really upset about changing, and so after reasonable amounts of trying we sent her to daycare in her jammies (this was age 3 maybe?). The staff there was awesome, and played along ("no big deal"- no criticism either), and the kid realized there was no point in the struggle. That never happened again. And if she didn't change, well, so what? it's only clothes.

and speaking as a judgemental parent in a restaurant, i can tell you i'm much more critical of the parent who insists on doing everything for their 5 year old than i am of parents who let their kids explore on the floor. but people are going to give you grief for however you parent, just like they will say all sorts of stupid things when you're pregnant. so, whatever.

_________________
Buddha says 'Meh'.--matwinser
I'm just a drunk who likes fruit. -- Desdemona


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:51 am 
Because Bob Barker Told Me To
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:37 pm
Posts: 910
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Ariann, you saw Ada at that meetup. She was a tornado through that place. She went through a month of not wanting to sit in the high chair and she just started sitting in it last week or the week before. And she will only sit in one as long as she is eating and then she wants out. We went out for brunch last weekend and basically Andy and I took turns chasing her in and out of the restaurant, put her in the high chair when the food got there, she didn't want to eat, and then we had to take turns eating to chase her around. We went into Manhattan on Saturday for a potluck picnic and she refused to sit in her stroller as we walked to the park from the subway so it took us an extra half hour to let her walk and push the stroller.
I think some babies are just more active then others? When we play with other toddlers most of them will sit for a snack but Ada cannot sit still. I was actually about to post something in the 'is this normal' thread. She is nonstop! But I do love that she loves to explore and has tons of energy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:47 am 
Baking In The Flavor
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:46 pm
Posts: 183
Location: The Bay Area
My oldest and the baby are like this. I would generally try to sit in a booth or in a corner when possible and give a small area of space within which to move around. Have you tried letting her sit on a regular chair (with supervision of course) or with a booster seat so it's a little more free?

With A., I tell her "no" in a firm tone down at her level (or picking her up to mine) face to face with no smile, and then I try to find something else to distract her. Sometimes I have let her shred paper or napkins just to keep her still and calm. I think it's really a normal phase for this age for an active baby. It does get easier!

_________________
Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.
Buddha

My wee blog:

http://www.mommethree.com


Top
 Profile WWW  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:35 pm 
***LIES!!!***
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 3428
Thank you for your stories!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:25 am 
Tofu Pup
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:43 pm
Posts: 4
Hi, newby here. My little girl is 3 now, and there's light at the end of the tunnel. When she was about 10-11 months, she was just the same. I always joke that the terrible twos started at 11 months for us; that's when she started walking full time and the independence quadrupled. She climbed before she walked (that has NEVER stopped). She was okay in restaurants while she was eating, but when she was done, she was DONE. She stopped using a high chair early; we used a booster on the inside of a booth until she was done eating and then took the booster out when she was done and let her sit, crawl, or stand in the booth. We started pointing out when a loud noise was disturbing other people, which she started caring about around 18 months as she was getting more empathy and we were fostering that. The period of 11-16 months were the absolute worst for me. We were also finalizing the adoption in part of that so there was extra stress and doubt (about whether I was a good enough mom for her; I never doubted her). She started biting at 14 months and got kicked out of a Montessori preschool I was in love with, which was devastating at the time (financially, too, as we had to get a nanny which was much pricker for fewer hours of care). But, it worked out in the end. She went back with other kids at 2 part time and back full time a few months later. By 2 she was downright delightful most of the time. Certainly there is more/better communication so I can be assured that, during a tantrum, I know what she wanted and said no for a reason and she just doesn't like that answer, and she can be assured that I sympathize with her emotions and will be available for a hug when she's ready. I certainly didn't feel confidently of that at age 1. Hang in there! It gets better, I promise!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Discipline, Boundaries, and Babies
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:32 am 
Addicted to B12 Enemas
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 263
Location: Los Angeles, CA
^^^I love this post! What a great story of riding out the waves with your kid.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer