Post Punk Kitchen Forum

I don't know where to put this, but I am tired of all the racist shiitake and trying to mask it as pro American and jobs and whatever the hell else. I know exactly what you mean when you say "illegal" and use it as a noun or an adjective to describe a person. FU.

Okay, I've calmed down a tiny bit, at least enough to give some context. My patient's dad was complaining about a referral to another office and sent an email to our office telling us how bad this provider's office was and how he "would NOT recommend them to anyone, unless it's an illegal." Ugh! All of our employees, including myself, are Hispanic, btw. Anyway, it's just one thing piled on top of the other, especially everything from Arizona which is where I am from (but not currently).

I know the feeling, my fellow Arizonan. At least the latino-phobia (?) seems to be on the way out. You don't hear the younger generations shaking their fist about them dern illegals. After all, most of us grew up with and around latin-american immigrants. Some legal, others not so much. And did you see downtown PHX during the SB1070 protests? Plenty of white in those crowds.

Yes, just yes.

I work with a horrible racist woman. Who loves to show me the most awful "news" stories. She seems to think that "those damned illegals" came here to take her graphic design job.

I hate the term "illegal". I just do.

Yepp, and I hate that some people are defined by their immigration status or country of origin. fork that, people are so much more than that.

As a former "illegal," I forking hate that term too.

As a human being and legal immigrant, I forking hate that term too.

I would love a general thread about all the racist stuff that challenges us every day, but I think reading it would be overwhelming. There is such a double think about race - its like rape culture - you have to pretend that it doesn't exist and that it doesn't affect anything, but it underpins everything and it is constantly biting you in the asparagus.

Like this very subtle article by the NYT :Blacks Miss Out As Jobs Rebound in NYC. Hear that minority job seekers? You are missing out! Its not at all that employers are choosing to go with white men over you, nosireebob Cracker Patriarch. Its that you people don't pick the right types of jobs.

Ugh, that is so annoying. I loved almost everything about my college, except for that.

See guys, this is who you should really be afraid of. Quiet, polite, unsuspecting white Canadians, sneaking over and blending in. It's quiet now, but when their numbers swell, and they rise up and overthrow our government and we all have to wear toques, you bleeding heart liberals will be SORRY.

As soon as I wake up from the nap I clearly desperately need, someone is getting a new subnick.

That's the thing. So many people I encountered (and still do encounter) who rail about the immigration "problem" use the rehetoric of "illegals" stealing our jobs. However, when confronted with the fact that they're talking to an english-speaking, college educated illegal, they would ALWAYS say, "well, not people like YOU, of course." Really? Because it seems to me that if you're really worried about jobs being stolen, I am EXACTLY the kind of "illegal" who's going to steal them, because I'm the kind that has no language barrier to overcome and a law degree.

What I don't get is how Mexicans are taking jobs, but at the same time, are too lazy.

Which is it, Cracker von Patriarchs?!

This is the same thing I've been wondering! They're here to mooch off our [wonderful?] system and take all of our [amazing?] jobs!

What is really amazing is working for someone who hates immigrants and labor unions at the same time.

My mom is very anti-Mexican/Latin culture in general. It drives me nuts... I get a bit of fiendish delight out of the fact that my sister's boyfriend is Honduran, and they have provided her with a grandson.

I know we had this discussion previously but my Mexican-American family in California utilizes the term illegal but not as a derogatory term. Growing up in Southern California, I've known many immigrants of varying statuses and I've always considered 'illegal immigrant' to be a legal term (other terms are usually used to be 'not so nice' about latino immigrants). I don't know if the US is unique in that we seem to have built a system where we utilize workers without providing them an easy way to obtain citizenship and then create a second class citizen. If it were up to me, we'd be more lenient about green cards and granting citizenship. I'd prefer that we create a system where we don't depend on workers that are here in the US illegally but give them the proper means to be here legally.

And as far as the stealing jobs thing, that goes back as far as I remember and it will probably continue to go on.

I was shocked to learn a while ago that during the Great Depression, even Mexican-American families who were here very legally, had citizenship and were even born here were deported to Mexico to save jobs for the "real" Americans. This does go way back!

I had never heard that... that makes me really sad.

It doesn't surprise me much considering we rounded up all the Japanese in WW2 and put them in camps.

This wikipedia article discusses it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation

I don't think any of my family was subject to it. On my Mother's mother side of the family, they had established themselves in California in the 1800s and my grandmother has mentioned that the great depression didn't affect them much because they were able to farm for themselves and trade food for goods/other foods. They were also well blended in with the native american population so how do you deport someone if they are part native american/part mexican descent?

On my Mother's father side of the family, they came to California in the early 1900s. Although my mother also mentions that her great grandfather was a migrant farm worker who actually had 2 families. One in Mexico and one in California. We were descendants of the California family. Apparently it wasn't unheard of for some farm workers who traveled to and from Mexico to end up having two wives, one in each country. The border was fairly open until the mid-20th century so farm workers were even more fluid than they are now.

aren't mexicans technically native americans? (or at least descended from them?) so, really mexicans are less illegal than those americans who are descended from non-north americans.

well Mexicans are probably more mixed with the native populations than the average American but I don't know that for sure. There are plenty of natives in Mexico that still maintain their own cultures and languages, of which Spanish may not be one.

I know from my own ancestry that in California, the native americans and mexicans mixed somewhat and were welcomed into the native american populations through marriage. I don't know the facts and figures to say whether that was highly common or not or true throughout California during its days as part of Mexico. As part of the US, both were considered 'others' and neither treated very well historically.

Of course if you try to use a logic that they belong here more than colonists but don't think that argument will work.

I remember reading before that the majority of Mexicans are mestizos.

I guess its really the intent of how you say the word.

If you are using it matter of factly as a legal term, fine, but if you tack it onto some racist bullshiitake, then its racist bullshiitake.

There is a humorous moment on a early South Park episode that points this out this odd double standard. Characters played by Cheech and Chong are believed to be "Native American" by most of the townsfolk, so the primarily white town ends up accepting and taking a great deal of silly advice from them. Eventually the characters tell everyone they are mexican, to which the townsfolk react with a great deal of horror.

Mexicans are generally a very mixed people, and much of that is from the native people of the Americas, whether its Maya or Hopi. It's why I have always hated the term "invaders" that people use to describe immigrants, it really digs into my skin more than any other term.

I see a lot of racism against Muslim people and those from Middle Eastern and Asian countries. They're demonized in our media and sadly people can be easily led even though we relies on those from other countries (including those from the Middle East and Asia) to make up the numbers of our doctors and surgeons and especially our dentists.

A couple of years back a documentary covered the influx of Polish workers into the UK. They followed some men who were working 10 hours a day picking vegetables (transport to and from work, food and water while they working, an OK hourly wage) and then the crew approached some 20-something English men at the benefits office to tell them about the jobs available alongside the Polish workers. The response was "I'd rather stay on benefits." The BNP and similar groups promote the concept of 'protecting British jobs for British people', but then won't 'lower themselves' (or get the necessary education) to doing the jobs that workers from other countries fulfill.