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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:18 am 
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Cornelie wrote:
Well, you can keep bread at that temperature for 48 hours right, and baked seitan is not really that different from bread, so...? I've done the same with chickpea cutlets, without running into trouble. I guess it does depend on what climate you are in.

I think the issue is the higher protein content. That's what I remember from my food safety course I took a few years ago, but in general, vegan food isn't really exempt from needing refrigeration, because things like beans and tofu and seitan have quite a bit of protein, which are considered more hazardous. I think the protein provides something for bacteria to grow more quickly from.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:07 pm 
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bodhi wrote:
Cornelie wrote:
Well, you can keep bread at that temperature for 48 hours right, and baked seitan is not really that different from bread, so...? I've done the same with chickpea cutlets, without running into trouble. I guess it does depend on what climate you are in.

I think the issue is the higher protein content. That's what I remember from my food safety course I took a few years ago, but in general, vegan food isn't really exempt from needing refrigeration, because things like beans and tofu and seitan have quite a bit of protein, which are considered more hazardous. I think the protein provides something for bacteria to grow more quickly from.


Also moisture. Bread is pretty dry.

People can do whatever they want, but food safety is not about "anxiety" or regional customs. There is proven science that food kept in certain conditions will grow bacteria to potentially dangerous levels, and it is just by chance whether that level of bacterial growth and the type of bacteria present are enough to make an individual person sick.

Generally food poisoning in otherwise healthy people is self-limited, not life threatening, and not obvious to anyone besides the person experiencing it (most people don't publicize their bathroom activity), but my guess is that people generally would prefer to avoid it if they are visiting this thread to ask a question.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Ruby Rose wrote:
It depends on what you are used to. There's a lot of anxiety about getting sick and throwing away food in this thread that most of us outside the US (or perhaps inside the US too but outside this thread) wouldn't think twice about eating, and we don't get sick. Maybe it's linked to how cheap food is in the States, or the quantities in which food is sold, or how close huge supermarkets are to where people live - or maybe just that fridges in the US are massive compared to those in Europe. But then, if your whole life you have really thrown away all food that hasn't been refrigerated within 2 hours, regardless of whether it needs refrigeration, and throw away whole punnets of fruit if one item has a mould spot, then you probably need to continue to do that because that's what your body is used to. I feel sad for people who couldn't eat sourdough, though.

bring on the sourdough!

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:32 pm 
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pandacookie wrote:
bring on the sourdough!

Real men skip the bread part and just eat the starter!

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:59 pm 
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I'm not sure what would be wrong with sourdough bread. When we are talking about 2 hours, that means prepared or cooked foods that are not normally kept at room temperature for long periods - cut up raw or cooked veggies, casseroles, cooked beans or grains, etc.

Bread can clearly be kept at room temp for a few days. Bacterial growth is not an issue with dry baked goods. Fermentation is an entirely different issue than pathogenic bacterial growth.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:24 pm 
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you guys, I just got a 93% on my ServSafe certification. Don't make me come in here and actually tell you all the horrible stuff that could happen to you from leaving food out.

But yeah, it's the moisture, amongst other things. don't leave moist things out of the fridge.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:28 pm 
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Beanitarian wrote:
There's nothing magical about vegan food. It grows bacteria too, it just doesn't have the same undercooking/contamination concerns as meat and eggs. Otherwise it's pretty much subject to the same rules, 2 hrs without refrigeration max. Warm in the sun would be even more dangerous.


it's 4 hours, but yeah. vegan food can make you just as sick.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:05 pm 
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ijustdiedinside wrote:
Beanitarian wrote:
There's nothing magical about vegan food. It grows bacteria too, it just doesn't have the same undercooking/contamination concerns as meat and eggs. Otherwise it's pretty much subject to the same rules, 2 hrs without refrigeration max. Warm in the sun would be even more dangerous.


it's 4 hours, but yeah. vegan food can make you just as sick.


The FDA and CDC sources say 2 hours, but they might be erring on the shorter side assuming that there may be more errors in the preparation and cooking of the food contributing to increased bacterial counts by the general public, as opposed to trained personnel.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:34 am 
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Just discovered the tofu I packed has potential pink mold on it. Can I eat the rest of my lunch or do I need to toss everything in that container and go to Chipotle?

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:50 am 
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zwingtip wrote:
Just discovered the tofu I packed has potential pink mold on it. Can I eat the rest of my lunch or do I need to toss everything in that container and go to Chipotle?


I would go to Chipotle if that is an option. It would gross me out to think about whether or not the pink mold may have touched some other food. I do think I have heard that pink mold is potentially more toxic than some other molds, but I can't find a source at the moment to back that up.

Regardless, Chipotle is delicious. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:54 am 
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So the tofu is separated from the other part of your lunch? You could in theory just throw the tofu out, imo. Does anything smell or taste off?

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:01 pm 
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The tofu is mushed together (more so than usual since I biked) with the rest of the stuff and it's hard to tell because Whole Foods "macrobiotic vegan" noodles always taste kind of weird/gross.

Going to probably go with Chipotle because now I'm paranoid.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:32 pm 
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I have never thrown up more than I did from bad tofu. Don't risk it!

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:39 pm 
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I had food poisoning Tuesday, and it sucked so bad. I am generally pretty cavalier about expiry dates and unrefridgerated stuff, but not more. After spending the night puking and being so cold I had to stand in the shower under boiling water to feel warm and slept under 3 blankets, its not a risk i'd take lightly again.

I think this came from eating the tail end of a can of corn that had been open for about 2 weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:14 am 
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When camping/hiking/taking road trips. I usually always bring a huge container of hummus and carrot slices and never refrigerate it, for days at a time (up to five or six days I've done this). I've never been sick from it. Also, if I find bread with mold, I cut off the moldy part and eat the rest, usually after toasting it. But there are things I wouldn't eat--mostly if they smell bad/the texture is off. Tofulish's story scares me. Canned Corn?! wow, sounds like an awful experience :-/


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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:30 am 
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I just read Zabber8's comment about stuff being different in Thailand. I've also thought over the 5+ years I've been here that people in Brazil are much more cavalier about eating sketchy stuff (like, for instance, my MIL doesn't refrigerate leftovers. period. luckily for me everything is meaty so i don't eat anything i don't cook there unless i've seen her just make it. and i eat stuff off the floor, so this is a big deal.).
BUT i don't think when i lived in the US i ever heard about outbreaks of botulism or listeria-- which are relatively common here. Restaurants/stores are always getting penalized for failing sanitation checks (no diff from the US, really). Yet people are always getting "viruses", but i think most of the time they're food poisoning (like the wedding i went to, where we ALL got sick, but to not be cruel to the mother of the bride [whose business did the catering] we all said we had "stomach flu"). I think maybe the difference is in spin and perception.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:34 pm 
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I have an unopened bottle of Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar. It has a white "creamy looking" thin rim at the top. I have never seen this in any of the bottles I have purchased, and I have purchased a lot lot lot. I'm thinking it's an aerobic bacteria, since it's growing at the liqiud-air interface. I emailed Braggs, and they assured me that it's just the "mother", and go ahead and use it. And they will send me samples and coupons. No samples and coupons ever came, and I'm tempted to get it cultured just to prove them wrong. I'm not to happy with their customer service!

Would you go ahead and use it like they said? I probably would just thow it out myself, but I'm hanging on to it in case I want to get it cultured. I need to get a life.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Sounds like its fine!

How long does pesto keep?

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:21 am 
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pesto's funny, if you have a covering of oil it's supposed to last for a while, but i've never had it not turn black and slimey after a day or two. maybe because mine is homemade and not cooked? if i ever have any, i freeze it.

as for the braggs, i don't know. it seems weird to be at the top, and like you i've seen a lot of mothers and vinegar. can you bring it back to the store?

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:40 am 
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The 80's wrote:
I have an unopened bottle of Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar. It has a white "creamy looking" thin rim at the top. I have never seen this in any of the bottles I have purchased, and I have purchased a lot lot lot. I'm thinking it's an aerobic bacteria, since it's growing at the liqiud-air interface. I emailed Braggs, and they assured me that it's just the "mother", and go ahead and use it. And they will send me samples and coupons. No samples and coupons ever came, and I'm tempted to get it cultured just to prove them wrong. I'm not to happy with their customer service!

Would you go ahead and use it like they said? I probably would just thow it out myself, but I'm hanging on to it in case I want to get it cultured. I need to get a life.


i had a bottle of the braggs a few months ago and while mine was already opened - it had the same thing. i hadn't used it in a while and thought "hrm....i don't remember the mother looking like this." so i opened it up and it smelled bad. i'm thinking your is no bueno as well - i am sure they're used to people who aren't familiar with mothers e-mailing them about it so that's the typical response they send out "oh, it's fine!". but the fact that it's creamy looking and along the top where the air and liquid meet, i say, culture it and prove them wrong!


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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:08 am 
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j-dub wrote:
I have never thrown up more than I did from bad tofu. Don't risk it!


if my tofu smells like it might possibly at all smell different than usual I toss it. bad tofu scares me.

also, dangerzone (aka karynmc) sent me daiya in the mail before they were selling daiya in stores and I was totally fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:44 am 
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I soaked some cashews overnight... sometime last week. :\ I meant to make spinach manicotti but plans changed and now my cashews are still waiting in the fridge. I did take them out of the water and stored them in an airtight container. As a relatively newbie vegan this is only the 2nd time I soaked cashews for a sauce and I have no idea if I can still use them? As long as they don't smell funny?

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:54 am 
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happyfaced wrote:
i had a bottle of the braggs a few months ago and while mine was already opened - it had the same thing. i hadn't used it in a while and thought "hrm....i don't remember the mother looking like this." so i opened it up and it smelled bad. i'm thinking your is no bueno as well - i am sure they're used to people who aren't familiar with mothers e-mailing them about it so that's the typical response they send out "oh, it's fine!". but the fact that it's creamy looking and along the top where the air and liquid meet, i say, culture it and prove them wrong!


I am definitely not familiar with mothers; what is that?


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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:23 am 
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Gnoe wrote:
I soaked some cashews overnight... sometime last week. :\ I meant to make spinach manicotti but plans changed and now my cashews are still waiting in the fridge. I did take them out of the water and stored them in an airtight container. As a relatively newbie vegan this is only the 2nd time I soaked cashews for a sauce and I have no idea if I can still use them? As long as they don't smell funny?

They have probably gone bad. :-( If you're feeling brave you could try tasting a small sliver, and heating them really well if they don't taste off, but I don't think I would risk it. Next time, just freeze your cashews after soaking if you don't get around to using them right away.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I eat this? The official thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:04 am 
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i wouldn't do it either. it's hard when you're working with cashews, and they cost so much that you hate to throw them away, but toss them anyway. i've been making raw stuff with cashews and other soaked nuts for a long time and usually you've got about a day after you drain them. they're damp, perfect breeding ground for god knows what.

if you're going to use them for a sauce, can I suggest something? next soak them in advance, then drain and freeze when they're done. then they're already ready for when you need them and you won't waste them again. Doesn't work if you're sprouting stuff, but for that use it's good.

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