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 Post subject: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:17 pm 
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I just visited my dentist who I haven't seen in several years and we found some bones loss in several of my teeth, including a front tooth. I remember being a young girl in the dentist chair and every dentist saying "You have bone loss" in one of the molars in back but now it seems the bone loss is traveling all over my mouth which is scary.

What do you know about the connection between dental health and veganism? I'm scared that maybe I have some deficiencies that may be accelerating this bone loss. I don't want to lose my teeth!

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:24 pm 
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My coworker isn't vegan but had bone loss in her jaw. I'd never heard it connected with veganism - in her case it was from periodontal (gum) infections...
https://www.infusebonegraft.com/omf_rea ... _loss.html

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:36 pm 
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I have bone loss in my 2 bottom front teeth. My dentist said it was caused by trauma. (most likely due to orthodontic treatment as an adult and extreme gum recession that wasn't caught early enough) In my case I had to have 2 root canals and I go back every 6 months to have xrays to make sure the bone is refilling in as much as possible and to catch any possible problems while they are still minor and before I end up losing those teeth. It's been 3 years so far and everything seems to be at least staying the same bone loss wise, maybe even getting a little better.


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:46 pm 
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I hadn't even considered my diet being a cause of my bone loss. In all the dental specialists I've seen over the years due to the bone loss not one mentioned diet as a cause. Did your dentist speculate as to what might have caused your issues? Do you have a treatment plan to address the bone loss? Perhaps you are just genetically prone to having bone loss in your teeth? You mentioned not seeing a dentist in several years, sometimes just letting a small dental problem fester over a long period of time leads to bigger issues. I know that with me, had one of the 4 dental specialist I had been seeing regularly noticed my receeding gums sooner I wouldn't have the issues with my bottom teeth I do now.


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:34 pm 
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I do have some gum issues but I brush several times a day and floss regularly and still I have issues. I think I may have inherited some of these issues from my mom who also has gum problems even though she brushes and flosses regularly. It's a bummer. My dentist did say "Maybe you should stop vegan?" but I don't think he meant it, he was joking around. But he did say something about vegetarians not biting and chewing the same way meat eaters do so stimulation of the bone and root of the tooth area is not as much. I don't think that's true though.

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:01 pm 
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I have some major gum issues too and my dentist said thin gums are genetic. fork our luck right. I don't think it has to do with veganism


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:07 pm 
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micachica wrote:
I have bone loss in my 2 bottom front teeth. My dentist said it was caused by trauma. (most likely due to orthodontic treatment as an adult and extreme gum recession that wasn't caught early enough) In my case I had to have 2 root canals and I go back every 6 months to have xrays to make sure the bone is refilling in as much as possible and to catch any possible problems while they are still minor and before I end up losing those teeth. It's been 3 years so far and everything seems to be at least staying the same bone loss wise, maybe even getting a little better.



What do you mean by "the bone is refilling in..."? I thought bone loss was irreversible?

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:55 am 
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I had to click on this thread since I just came back from the dentist. Another fracture... Both my (omni) mother and I have a history of dental fractures (and no-one seems to be able to figure out why) so I also believe that dental issues are largely hereditary. Same nutrients as for general health apply to healthy teeth. Vitamin D, various B vitamins, Calcium, Magnesium, and Zinc. So if you eat well, take supplements as needed, and generally take care of your teeth by brushing and flossing, I don't think there's much more you can do. Oh, and don't brush your teeth right after eating something acidic, but I'm sure you know that.


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:25 am 
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My endodontist takes the xrays and then shows me where my bone is filling in around the base of my teeth. On my xray is looks like a gray/whitish color instead of black where the bone is filling in. It might be tissue or cartilage or something instead of bone but he calls it bone I think? Maybe it's bone tissue if there is such a thing. Some type of white material is growing back/filling in where my bone loss occurred.


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:49 am 
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I have issues with my front teeth on the inside from having my tongue pierced for so long. It wore away some of my gum line. So it's sensitive a lot, but I don't think it's getting any worse. My dentist suggested teeth cleanings every 6 months, brush twice a day, floss and get an electric toothbrush. But I haven't done that yet, they are too expensive! But he doesn't think that it will ever get better on it's own. If it gets worse I will need a filling in that area but he said it's a really hard area to do a filling in so I'm hoping it stays like this since I took my piercing out.

I used to work with someone who was a vegetarian for like 20+ years and he said that his dentist told him that his teeth were degrading due to being a vegetarian. He needed to have repair work done. But I'm not sure how much I believe that. He seemed to think that because he ate a lot of nuts and raw veggies that he wore down his teeth. I dunno if that makes sense to me. But I guess some dentist do feel like a vegetarian/vegan diet could effect your teeth.

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:28 am 
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My dentist takes a very holistic approach to dental health (he always wants to know about diet, stress, exercise, etc...) He knows I've been vegan for almost 5 years and vegetarian for 25+ and isn't remotely concerned about it as long as I am getting the nutrients I need and keeping up good dental hygiene practices. I do think a lot of it is genetic (and also has to do with whether or not you had flouridated water as a kid.) Maybe if I hadn't gotten lucky on both counts he'd be singing a different tune. But I don't think so... Even though my teeth and gums are really healthy he still gives me the quit drinking pop lecture twice a year so I think if he thought veganism was a concern he'd say so.

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:33 am 
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kmouse wrote:
I do have some gum issues but I brush several times a day and floss regularly and still I have issues. I think I may have inherited some of these issues from my mom who also has gum problems even though she brushes and flosses regularly. It's a bummer. My dentist did say "Maybe you should stop vegan?" but I don't think he meant it, he was joking around. But he did say something about vegetarians not biting and chewing the same way meat eaters do so stimulation of the bone and root of the tooth area is not as much. I don't think that's true though.


Both of my omni parents have gum issues and I seem to have inherited them. Luckily no talk of bone loss yet. I brush at least twice daily and until I switched dentists, flossed daily, and it didn't seem to help. The dental hygienist at the new dentist's practice suggested switching from flossing to dental sticks and interdental brushes (depending on the space between particular teeth) and that seems to have made a pretty big difference. No one has ever suggested my diet had anything to do with any gum/teeth issues I've had. That said, my partner (omni) has had teeth crumble, likely due to a combination of steroid use (for Crohn's) and vitamin deficiency (also from the Crohn's). So vitamin deficiency can contribute to bone loss, but being vegan =/= vitamin deficiency and vitamin deficiencies are not exclusive to vegans.

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:37 am 
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Total anecdote time: I had terrible teeth up til a few years ago when I had a shiitake ton of work done. I went vegetarian at age 10, before which my teeth were already quite bad. So you're thinking: aha! Being veg does make your teeth bad.

But wait! There's more! You know who else has terrible teeth? My maternal grandmother, my mom and her sisters, and my own sister. ALL of whom are omni and all of whom actually have worse dental problems than me.

(Interestingly, none of my (omni) brothers have dental problems. Oh shiitake guys! Being female is bad for your teeth!)

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Hate teeth. They can suck it and die. Mother forkers.

I have a long list of things I need to get done, none of which I am doing. I should probably do these things. Damnit.

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Mars wrote:
Hate teeth. They can suck it and die. Mother forkers.


my sentiments exactly

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:34 pm 
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I've been reading about oil pulling. It's supposed to be good for you teeth and gums, it's supposed to make your teeth whiter, gums stronger and clean out bacteria and plaque on teeth which helps if you have gum disease.

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:36 pm 
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I think torque posted about oil pulling and it sounded fascinating.

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:54 pm 
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I have bad gums, haven't been to dentist recently but he's never mention bone loss in the past, I've always thought my mouth 'chemistry' was off though, since I've always gotten canker sores and had lots of cavities when younger.

The oil pulling sounds interesting, but I can't rinse with mouthwash for 2 minutes, I'd never be able to last 15-20!


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:03 am 
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i think appifanie does/did oil pulling too?

i don't do 20 min, no way no how. maybe 5-10 m in the morning, during which i'm often interrupted and have to spit out. then rinse, brush with water, and tongue scrape.
i had stopped for a bit but recently started again as my teeth are getting sensitive (getting old and my gums are receding, what can i say) and i'm a bleeder. I feel that the oil pulling makes my teeth less sensitive to cold and bleed less, plus feel nice and clean. It usually takes about two weeks of doing it every day for me to feel a difference. I figure it can't hurt, it's cheap and my dentist says that whatever i'm doing is great so keep it up (even though oil pulling seems amazingly woo-- but i don't claim it's detoxing my liver or making my skin perfect or anything else.) I think it's been much more beneficial for me than burning my face off with listerine, as my US doctor always insisted i do.

I also have bone loss in my front teeth due to an accident- it seems to be under control though, at least the dentist isn't concerned. i am not a happy dentist-goer and pretty much feel the same way as Mars.

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:12 am 
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For those interested, here are some images of what bone loss in periodontal disease might look like. This is a model, but I put it behind the spoiler tag because I figured some might not want to see such images. In this model, the gums have been peeled away to show what the bone underneath looks like. One side of the model there is no bone loss and no periodontal disease and on the other side there is bone loss and periodontal disease. (Btw, for those with bone loss due to an infected tooth, this is not the same thing.)

Spoiler: show
Without bone loss:
Image

With bone loss:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:51 am 
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I have teeth (well gum mostly) problems too. Inherited gum disease, and I have some weird abundance of minerals in my saliva that creates a lot of tarter buildup.

Basically, I need to go in for cleanings every 3 months (insurance only covers every 6) and a deep cleaning every 2 years (insurance won't cover even though it is preventative-WTF?), and I have TMJ so I have to buy an expensive mouth guard (also not covered! $400!). And a special mouthwash to use before each cleaning (surprise! Not covered either!)

Always hated going to the dentist though. I went to my orthodontist weekly when I had braces as a kid (for almost 10 forking years) and they would always give me shiitake about not brushing. But I did! all the time! they would literarily yell at me in front of other patients, bring my mom in, make me feel bad. They would use me as an example to other patients…they would show them how my gums bled when I flossed, or if they gently poked me with a sharp thingy. Owie, and humiliating.

It scared me away from going to the dentist. I didn't go for years after I got my braces off. Then finally, a dentist told me I might have a issue with certain minerals in my saliva that cause excess tartar, and I would just need more regular cleanings. She was right! Stupid mean orthodontist. It gave me a real complex about doctors and dentists.

Love my dentist now. She even gave me free cosmetic work on my front teeth (veneers over my chipped teeth) which I couldn't afford and was very self conscious of. This dentist is more expensive than some, but they are so sweet to me, I will pay a premium to go to them. They take good care of me.


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:24 pm 
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I have gums which have receded in about five places and I've had very successful gum grafts in four spots so far. My teeth look like a much less horrific version of what kimba posted. My periodontist/surgeon is of the opinion that my gum issue (and the associated bone loss) is the result of jaw misalignment and that I would have been better off in childhood getting my jaw broken and reset than having braces! Crazy. My dentist says it's random and/or genetic and the dental hygienist thinks it's the result of having braces. So anyway, all that is to say that of the various people who have ventured opinions about the cause of the problem, nobody has indicated that it has anything to do with my diet and they also all agree I have excellent oral hygiene to boot. Also, the periodontist was very strong in her advice to eat tons of protein when healing from the gum grafts and she said I healed absolutely perfectly and quickly.

Chicki, my orthodontist was a dick like that, too. For me it was about wearing my retainer WHICH I DID, jerkface.


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:48 am 
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kimba wrote:
. (Btw, for those with bone loss due to an infected tooth, this is not the same thing.)

Could you elaborate on this?
(thanks, even though this terrifies me, it is super informative and i appreciate it)

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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:13 am 
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torque wrote:
kimba wrote:
. (Btw, for those with bone loss due to an infected tooth, this is not the same thing.)

Could you elaborate on this?
(thanks, even though this terrifies me, it is super informative and i appreciate it)


Sure! Here's a model that gives an example of bone loss due to a tooth infection.

Spoiler: show
Image


In this model there are 4 teeth, the two on the left have 1 root each, the two on the right have two roots each. The one on the left has an infected pulp chamber (where the nerve should be) due to a cavity. At the bottom of the tooth (the tip of the root) there is bone loss. This kind of bone loss, once the infected tooth is treated, can usually fill in with new bone. It is basically just filling in a hole. On the right of the model, there is a tooth that has periodontitis (gum disease) and has bone loss due to that. The bone is basically shorter there. That kind of bone loss is irreversible. Basically, the body can't make the bone bigger, but it can fill in holes.


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 Post subject: Re: Dental health woes.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:49 am 
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Gotcha, thanks for explaining!

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