"homeopathic" medicine. what the fizzle!

bekki · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:02 pm

Honestly, I don't think calling him out is a bad thing. Sure, you "fell" for what he said, but you said he's a regular MD so you should be able to trust him not to sell you BS.

Jerusha, just wondering, are your colleagues in the scientific or medical field? I'm not asking to be snarky, just genuinely curious (I know it can be hard to read intent online)

And I love the PPK for many reasons, and the evidence-based approach to things is high up on the list of why.

Chipmunk · **Posted:** Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:48 am

Mr. Shankly wrote:

You're not a doctor and you should be able to trust your doctor. He's the one who should feel ashamed. It's just good that you realized it was complete bullshiitake before you started using it. Imagine all of the patients that come to him looking for help that will easily get preyed upon if they're not familiar with homeopathy and blindly follow what he says.

Absolutely. In misleading you, he is abusing your trust in him and taking away your ability to give informed consent by not giving you adequate information about your options. In this instance, he has obviously failed to offer you an effective treatment, which is one of his responsibilities. You are paying him for a service, so you are entitled to let him know if you are not satisfied.

mean soybean · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:38 pm

Yeah, let's not mix up homeopathy with herbalism.

One resource for herbal medicine info for me has been the Susun Weed's forum, her newsletters and videos posted on Youtube. For medicine making, The Herbal Medicine-Maker's Handbook: A Home Manual by James Green has been extremely helpful.

Vantine · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:46 pm

No one should be self-diagnosing or self-medicating. Herbal supplements can interfere with a variety of medications so you should seek medical advice before dosing yourself.

Ariann · **Joined:** Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:10 pm **Posts:** 1932

It seems like a pretty big blanket statement to say no one should self-diagnose or self-medicate. You self-medicate (based on some kind of self-diagnosis) whenever you take over the counter drugs. I think people should take it upon themselves to be educated about the fact that herbs are drugs and as such, sometimes act on the body in ways that are not awesome and in ways that interfere with other drugs. (This is true of food, too.) Also, people who want to mix their own herbs to self-medicate should know that herbs aren't controlled for quality and purity the way drugs are and you can never really know if you're getting what you think you're getting. It makes it a riskier proposition, but in the end we're all responsible for our own health and what we choose to put in our bodies.

linanil · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:02 pm

I think self diagnosing/medicating has a fine line. You may know somethings that work from past experiences for temporary issues and which may not need medical intervention.

If you have stomach troubles, drinking peppermint tea isn't a bad first step. If you have stomach troubles for longer than a few days, it may be time to seek a doctor rather than googling to find possible causes and possible herbs to fix the issue. Same with joint pain, ibuprofen and ice can reduce inflammation and may relieve an issue but if the issue is chronic, going to the doc is the only way to find the real issue.

Ariann · **Joined:** Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:10 pm **Posts:** 1932

Perhaps, but if you find what you think is the root cause (and with things like painful inflammation, often the root cause is totally obvious and a doctor's visit is a pointless step - we don't always need doctors to tell us what's going on in our bodies) and you make a personal choice to explore herbalism to treat it, that's really a personal decision and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I personally turn to "western medicine" first when I'm sick, but I respect people who make a different decision to treat their bodies in a way they feel comfortable with.

mean soybean · **Posted:** Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:03 pm

As when someone asks me about veganism, with herbalism, which I'm just starting to get into, I state what I know with a lot of disclaimers (i.e: "this is what I do/believe/understand") and let them make their own decision about the whole lot. Unless they're herbally inclined -- and even then, I'd only suggest hot infusions or food. Like how I recently advised a friend to try a calendula infusions for thrush and dandelion greens for acid reflux issues. I only use my homemade tinctures on myself or DH.

Speaking about standardization of herbal medicines: I just gave my MIL some homemade Saint John's Wort oil for massaging her sciatic nerve. I also gave her a bottle of store-bought that was standardized at 10% of dry herb to a litre olive oil to compare. Anyone who uses SJW oil knows to look for a product that's red. The store bought was not red at all and looked just like regular oil! It also wasn't fragrant. I'm glad to say that mine was red and smelled delicious. So I'm hoping mine wins out. We'll see in a month or two.

And here's a quote from Susun Weed:

Quote:

An MD on a menopause panel with me told the audience that no herb was safe to use unless its active ingredient was measured and standardized. What can I say? To me the active ingredient of a plant is the very part that cannot be measured: the energy, the life force, the chi, the fairy of the plant, not a “poisonous” constituent. To the healer/artist/herbalist, the active part of the plant is that part that can be used by the right brain to actively, chaotically, naturally, “jump the octave” and work a miracle. This active part is refined away in standardized products, for the real active part is the messy part, the changeable part, the subtle part, the invisible part.
- Susun Weed, source

Chipmunk · **Posted:** Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:13 pm

So this person doesn't believe in the basic principles of physiology? Sounds like vitalism. And an unreliable source of health advice.

strawberryrock · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:15 pm **Posts:** 1660

I take herbs for stuff sometimes but if someone told me I should take a certain herb because "the fairy of the plant" would help me, I would not be convinced.

Flower fairies are pretty but they aren't doctors!

Vantine · **Posted:** Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:03 pm

Chipmunk wrote:

So this person doesn't believe in the basic principles of physiology? Sounds like vitalism. And an unreliable source of health advice.

Also, there is science-based medicine and there is faith-based healing. Herbal treatments are created by a profit-driven industry that does not want to be held to rigorous standards because their claims would not stand up. They market them as "foods" instead of medical treatments. Here's Quackwatch's article on herbs.

Here's a relevant bit:

Quote:

Herbal advocates like to point out that about half of today's medicines were derived from plants. (Digitalis, for example, was originally derived from leaves of the foxglove plant.) This statement is true but misleading. Drug products contain specified amounts of active ingredients. Herbs in their natural state can vary greatly from batch to batch and often contain chemicals that cause side effects but provide no benefit.

When potent natural substances are discovered, drug companies try to isolate and synthesize the active chemical in order to provide a reliable supply. They also attempt to make derivatives that are more potent, more predictable, and have fewer side effects. In the case of digitalis, derivatives provide a spectrum of speed and duration of action. Digitalis leaf is almost never used today because its effects are less predictable. Many herbs contain hundreds or even thousands of chemicals that have not been completely cataloged. Some of these chemicals may turn out to be useful as therapeutic agents, but others could well prove toxic.

You can, of course, choose either or both. However, I am unwilling to pretend that they are equally valid in an empirical sense.

FootFace · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:13 am

Chi, miracles, fairies.

Oh, brother.

snowleopard394 · **Joined:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:59 am **Posts:** 2

I just want to say that I am a biologist and I freaking love you guys for not being pro-homeopathy. That is all. :D

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