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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:44 pm 
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jogirl wrote:
Emilie wrote:

Have you read "Of mice and men"?
Because it's basically the same horrible thing.

It's a while since I read Of Mice and Men, but I think it is a little more complex than this



I've read it recently and couldn't not notice this element. Besides, I've not said that this novel is simplist but that's not the point anyway.
This said, I'm still quite confident in my capacity of noticing the complexity of a novel.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:36 am 
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eve-ensle ... 12930.html thank you E. ensler

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Emilie wrote:
jogirl wrote:
Emilie wrote:

Have you read "Of mice and men"?
Because it's basically the same horrible thing.

It's a while since I read Of Mice and Men, but I think it is a little more complex than this



I've read it recently and couldn't not notice this element. Besides, I've not said that this novel is simplist but that's not the point anyway.
This said, I'm still quite confident in my capacity of noticing the complexity of a novel.

Okay, I think I need to apologise. I am sorry if I offended you in any way, I at no point meant to infer that you didn't understand it, and I'm sorry if I came across as patronising. I just meant that I think it can be read in different ways.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Blah blah Facebook blah blah. I hate when people have to post crappy things and ruin it for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
Bic apparently makes pens specifically for females now...what? I can't find the commercial on youtube but it just makes me frustrated.

This just made my day: http://jezebel.com/5938108/amazon-custo ... -for-women

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:48 pm 
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jogirl wrote:
Emilie wrote:
jogirl wrote:
It's a while since I read Of Mice and Men, but I think it is a little more complex than this



I've read it recently and couldn't not notice this element. Besides, I've not said that this novel is simplist but that's not the point anyway.
This said, I'm still quite confident in my capacity of noticing the complexity of a novel.

Okay, I think I need to apologise. I am sorry if I offended you in any way, I at no point meant to infer that you didn't understand it, and I'm sorry if I came across as patronising. I just meant that I think it can be read in different ways.


Oh thank you for this! Yes, I must say I was feeling somewhat offended - but I really appreciate your message (... a forum where people are sensitive!? Iloveppk!)
Now about the novel, there certainly is a lot to see in it -but actually, that's precisely what I find so sad: a lot of major works wouldn't pass the Bechdel test (like, all tose with one or zero female characters... WHY?)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Everytime I think I can't be shocked by the misogyny from the GOP they surprise me.

Quote:
“I lived something similar to that with my own family,” Smith said. He then described his daughter’s out-of-wedlock pregnancy — from consensual sex.

“She chose life, and I commend her for that. She knew my views but fortunately for me … she chose the way I thought. Now don’t get me wrong. It wasn’t rape.”

Smith affirmed that he believed his daughter’s pregnancy from consensual sex was similar to a rape. “Put yourself in a father’s position, yes, I mean it is similar.”


http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/ ... ughter.php

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Everytime I think I can't be shocked by the misogyny from the GOP they surprise me.

Quote:
“I lived something similar to that with my own family,” Smith said. He then described his daughter’s out-of-wedlock pregnancy — from consensual sex.

“She chose life, and I commend her for that. She knew my views but fortunately for me … she chose the way I thought. Now don’t get me wrong. It wasn’t rape.”

Smith affirmed that he believed his daughter’s pregnancy from consensual sex was similar to a rape. “Put yourself in a father’s position, yes, I mean it is similar.”


http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/ ... ughter.php

Holy what the fork?!

And, note, "she CHOSE". Well how nice for her to be able to forking choose what she does with her body. Now let's prevent every other woman from being able to.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Everytime I think I can't be shocked by the misogyny from the GOP they surprise me.

Quote:
“I lived something similar to that with my own family,” Smith said. He then described his daughter’s out-of-wedlock pregnancy — from consensual sex.

“She chose life, and I commend her for that. She knew my views but fortunately for me … she chose the way I thought. Now don’t get me wrong. It wasn’t rape.”

Smith affirmed that he believed his daughter’s pregnancy from consensual sex was similar to a rape. “Put yourself in a father’s position, yes, I mean it is similar.”


http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/ ... ughter.php

Wowwwwww. I think that's all I can say about that. Just....wow.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:11 am 
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The irony of using the word "chose" or variations there of, while removing choice from anyone else.... it slays me.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:55 pm 
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Mr. Shankly wrote:
Mr. Shankly wrote:
Bic apparently makes pens specifically for females now...what? I can't find the commercial on youtube but it just makes me frustrated.

This just made my day: http://jezebel.com/5938108/amazon-custo ... -for-women
Finally, a solution to pens envy - Freud must be pissed!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:15 pm 
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"Sometimes a pen is just a pen." Or some shiitake like that. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:56 pm 
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first of all, what j-dub and kfad just said.

But largely, mouth breathing troglodyte crassholes who say disgusting creepy things to me in the street. I want to scream at them. Or alternatively, ask MANY QUESTIONS.

For example: "I would put you in a wheelchair."

I mean... It was said as if this was some sort of come on. I don't get it. Besides being repulsive and offensive, it's just outright ILLOGICAL. It more or less translates to "I would like to cause you pain and injury." Does this work for you on a regular basis? Do most women stop in their tracks and go "oooooh! WHERE DO I SIGN?"???? How is this your strategy?

I mean, yes, of course, I DO "get it." I'm not an imbecile. It's about objectifying me. The lack of my pleasure in your concisely put imaginary scenario is BEYOND beside the point. My pain, or even my ability to feel anything at all, is beside the point. The POINT is simply that I am an object, the function of which is to stroke your pride merely through my ability to be damaged by your supposedly incredibly impressive physical self. (the fact that this would be a point of pride in the first place I think requires an entirely separate discussion about your mentality and the kinds of sources you derive your self esteem from...)

I was going to ask what's the point of even saying such a thing aloud, however I guess if I really think about it I "get" your point in saying it as well. My response is irrelevant. You got to say it out loud, and 1) feel proud of yourself for saying it and 2) convince yourself it's even true. Double "yeah, I told HER." "I am awesome" points for you, I guess. I didn't even need to be there.

But the fact remains that JUST BECAUSE I AM FEMALE AND IN PUBLIC DOES NOT MAKE ME PUBLIC PROPERTY, I DO NOT EXIST FOR YOUR COMMENTARY, AND NO, YOU CANNOT SPEAK TO ME THAT WAY!!!!!!!!!!

HAAAAAAAAAATE.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Ugh, seriously, Mack? Who the fork says something like that? That's just disturbing. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:07 pm 
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I really like your response Mack. I kinda wish I could print that out and hand it to the guy to read.

I was wearing a dress over my swimsuit and showing a bit of cleavage, and a guy was just staring at me so hard that it started to make both Mr T and me uncomfortable. I still find myself blaming myself for having my boobs more visible, when the truth is that no one should be treating me like an object.

I hate that my daughter is going to have to learn how to navigate jerks like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:00 pm 
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I think the part that depresses me most is I don't think he would read it, or care. He got what he wanted. Those sorts of comments are disguised as "I wish to obtain sex from you," but what they are actually meant to do is establish him as powerful, privileged, (supposedly) endowed, and establish me as weak, powerless, and subhuman. They are meant to hurt, intimidate, and dismiss. I didn't say anything to him, and I wish I had, yet at the same time I know saying anything would be pointless. My opinions, thoughts, and feelings are irrelevant to a dude like that. I'm not a human being, I'm just a blank canvas for him to project whatever self-affirming grossness he requires at the moment.

I'm sorry about your swimsuit experience. I had a similar one once when out for a drink with a gf. It was a weeknight, non crowded bar in a restaurant (I think it was a Friday's or something) and we were just catching up. This guy at a nearby table kept wrenching around to stare at me, and even exclaim out loud "Wow!" "...Damn, girl!" I think my friend and I were laughing, but in an annoyed way, mostly out of discomfort, and not knowing what to do. And it was just like... The fact that my chest is big is not news to me. And I'm not flattered. You're really just being INCREDIBLY RUDE, it makes me uncomfortable, and you need to stop. I think I even yelled at him at some point, and he said something sheepish about how he was sorry, but he couldn't help himself bc he'd never seen anything like me before. I mean, just... OMG, STOP. He must have stopped our waiter at some point because he sent me a drink. My friend even annoyed me to, to the point that I remember this evening more than ten years ago incredibly well. She was just like "hey a free drink, what's the big deal." I wanted to send it back. I think we left it on the table but pointedly did not drink it. I'd had the drink I wanted, I was going to be driving home later, plus OH YEAH, I ALMOST FORGOT, WOMEN ARE NOT MAGIC VENDING MACHINES IN WHICH YOU INSERT BOOZE DINNER OR PRESENTS AND RECEIVE SEX. FORK. OFF. GOD.

<3 You are a bad asparagus, so no doubt Leela will be too.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Awww! I don't feel like a badass in those situations any more, because there is always a threat of violence in those encounters, so I end up avoiding confrontation these days. I found myself thinking, do I yell at the dude and call him out, and then thought, yeah, but he knows where I live. And now I'm not just responsible for my safety, I'm responsible for Leela's safety too.

There was a pretty messed up attack in my neighborhood, where 4 men broke into a woman's home and attacked her so badly she had to go to the hospital. The papers are downplaying it though, because she knew the men.

And that is the problem of being a member of the sex class, if something happens to you, there is always a system waiting to explain why it was your fault and everyone second-guesses you.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Yuck. I am so sorry, Mack and T.

I was at the nude beach a few weekends ago, which is usually a pretty safe-feeling place to be. My friend and I decided to stroll down to see what the vendors were selling. On the five minute walk we had one dude in his 40s (note I am 25) literally walk backwards in front of us in order to ogle our bare breasts. Then on the way back a man in his sixties hissed at me that he would like to fork me like an animal.

The worst and best part of this is that my response then and now is "MEH." Growing up as a well-endowed teenager I experienced a lot of harassment. It barely phases me at this point (it's also, thankfully, a lot less common. Funny that, the more embodied I become and the less vulnerable I look the less these predatory crassholes attack). Which breaks my forking heart. I absolutely should not be feeling blasé about misogynistic crassholes flaunting their privilege in an attempt to make me cower. And yet, here i am.

I am so forking tired of rape culture. I am so forking tired of being full of rage all the time. And I am so forking tired of feeling the repercussions of others' decisions about my body ripple through my life. fork all of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
And that is the problem of being a member of the sex class, if something happens to you, there is always a system waiting to explain why it was your fault and everyone second-guesses you.

Yeah, but to be fair, if she didn't want to be attacked she shouldn't have known...those...men? Clearly she was asking for it by, um, being acquainted with people.

Even though I understand the mechanisms by which it happens, it still boggles my mind that victim blaming happens. It reasserts my fundamental belief that conservative (read: misogynistic, homophobic, racist, etc) beliefs and logic are completely incapable of coexisting.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:58 pm 
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I'm slayed by the "choose life" rhetoric as well. If anti-choicers actually believed that embryos and fetuses are babies, as they claim to do, then there is nothing brave about not having an abortion. How is it brave to not murder your child?

I don't think abortion is murder, of course, but I'm going by their logic. (Or "logic," rather.)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Awww! I don't feel like a badass in those situations any more, because there is always a threat of violence in those encounters, so I end up avoiding confrontation these days. I found myself thinking, do I yell at the dude and call him out, and then thought, yeah, but he knows where I live. And now I'm not just responsible for my safety, I'm responsible for Leela's safety too.


That is true. And awful. But the other thing is, even if you don't quite know how to respond in the moment, you can talk to her (more when she's older obviously). She's growing up with a mother who has a strong sense of self, who will give her the confidence & self esteem to not let those experiences define how she sees herself. Sure, she maybe just as outraged & frightened as we are, just as unsure about whether to have or avoid a confrontation, but she'll know she's worthwhile & people like that are scum. That's what you give her.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:15 am 
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Mack the Spork wrote:

For example: "I would put you in a wheelchair."

HAAAAAAAAAATE.



Was this song popular in the States? The lyrics are so very disturbing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7GhrUaNDAI


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:29 am 
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inceptisol wrote:

Was this song popular in the States? The lyrics are so very disturbing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7GhrUaNDAI

I've never heard it before but it sounds like a love song from a kidnapper.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:06 pm 
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The men at the place where I get quicky oil changes for my car. I went in today, then looked up my car by license plate number and the guy said to me, "I recall this car from before...do you have a husband?" I said yeah and he asked what his name was. Then he kept calling me Miss and asking me to ask my husband if we've had such and such done to the car. I explained to him that I was the primary driver and the owner of the vehicle and my husband has no input. He CONTINUED to say that he'd recommend to Trevor to change such and such filter. Then they discovered one of my brake lights is out and asked if I would authorize changing them or if I'd like to wait and ask Trevor. When I said it was fine, he changed them and then went to hand the spent bulbs to me, saying, "Maybe you want to show these to Trevor incase he's wondering what the cost breakdown is about?" It just went on and on. DUDE. First of all, just because my husband is a man does NOT make him a car expert or interested in cars in any way (gender stereotype #1). Also, just because I am a woman does not mean I am an incompetent, fragile idiot who can't handle decisions like changing the oil (gender stereotype #2). GRAHHH.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:16 pm 
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I have fired mechanics for that. Treat me like every other customer. Full stop. Vyapti knows diddly about cars. If you don't talk down to him, or ask him to get my "permission" then don't do that to me.

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