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 Post subject: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:40 am 
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/06/AR2011030602662.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2011030802271

republicans in several states are trying to pass voting laws that would make it more difficult for students and poor people to vote under the guise of trying to prevent voter fraud.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:55 am 
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Ugh. College students are "foolish" voters. Yeah right. They are educated voters trying to shape the world they are about to live and work in. And surprise, it's not what the previous generation (or two generations) wants.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:06 pm 
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graffitipassion wrote:
Ugh. College students are "foolish" voters. Yeah right. They are educated voters trying to shape the world they are about to live and work in. And surprise, it's not what the previous generation (or two generations) wants.


That's quite an overgeneralization!

Certainly it's ridiculous to try to curtail voting rights.


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 Post subject: sick sick sick
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:43 pm 
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The Republicans' strategy has always been to minimize the number of votes cast in any given election, because if everyone who was eligible to vote actually did so, the Democrats would always win! That's because their strategies and ideas are (usually) more about helping lower/middle class workers survive as opposed to helping millionaires rake in more profits. Republicans only win elections through a combination of voter disenfranchisement, blatant lies, ice-cold malice, and fear-mongering, because their only ideologies revolve around turning everyone who is not a wealthy, property-owning white male into chattel. They are very well aware of the fact that they perform better in elections when fewer people vote as well as when the people who do vote are less educated about the issues in play -- hence the introduction of laws like this and the inescapable tentacles of News Corporation.

The fact that so many "little people" (non-politicians) are enthused about passing laws that limit any American citizen's ability to cast votes in what is supposed to be a democratic process blows my mind on a daily basis.

My state is about to pass the most restrictive voter ID bill in the country, which will disallow Wisconsin residents from casting a vote unless they have a state-issued identification card or driver's license (student ID is not acceptable), both of which you have to pay for out of pocket ($28 each) and visit a DMV center in order to procure. The same people who introduced that bill also desperately want to take away the ability to register to vote on Election Day.
Who gets affected by laws like this? Oh, riiiiiiiight: college students, people whose first language is not English, elderly people, people who don't drive or own a car, stay-at-home parents, working poor, etc. etc. etc. Basically, the people who are affected by laws like this are people who are reliable Democratic voters, which is exactly why the Republicans are trying to put up as many legislative barriers as possible in order to prevent them from voting at all. Know you can't win on the merits? Just try to make the other team stay home!

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:48 pm 
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For the trans folk, I heard a good interview about this on the gaydio the other day. Check this out to avoid being disenfranchised: https://secure.commonground.convio.com/ ... hiletrans/


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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Am I missing something with the college voters? I see no problems here: nobody gets to vote in multiple places. You vote where your residency is, using an absentee ballot if needed. If you live year round in your college town, change your drivers license and voters registration. Easy peasy. It's free. Actually the license might cost, but you can update voter reg without that if you have your proof of address stuff.

In Virginia, you don't even have to mail your ballot. Request one sent to you and then return it at any polling location. Again, free.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Ugh, I see this ALL OVER FACEBOOK. I try to explain that they are targeting the poor, uneducated etc and nobody listens. Even after they admit that THEY don't even have a DL or state ID themselves!

I can't stand the 'click like if you....like if you believe in...' political crepe on facebook. First, it is not going to help. It's not really a vote. Second, you should not get your political education over some shitty meme that someone posted on FB. Read the news, do some research!

This one, and the drug testing for welfare really get to me. I reply with statistics, facts etc and nobody wants to listen. I guess my friends are just dumb. No, no guessing. they are. It really makes me want to clean up my facebook page...but maybe I enjoy looking at my friend from HS's new baby pictures. I like keeping in touch with my (politically conservative) ex-coworkers and family friends. I just wish they wouldn't post the other stupid political crepe up there as well.

sorry. off-topic rant over. But yes, I agree with everyone about the original topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:18 pm 
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I'm in favor of voter ids. But, we would need a multi year period of actively helping anyone who wants or needs one a FREE suitable ID. This would mean funding and staffing mobile help centers, helping people find and obtain birth certificates or other documents. This would also help people access social services.

Until something like that occurs, stfu.

In Virignia, if you do not have photo ID, you must complete a paper ballot and that gets tossed into a box to be vetted later. They only count those if they need them. So practically speaking, you DO need an ID to vote. Odd that nobody ever seems to complain about that here. We also cannot register less than 60 days (I think, maybe 30? It's reasonably lengthy anyway. My dad got caught by that when we moved) before an election.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:32 pm 
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The voting problem I ran into as a college student is that it's not so easy to go out and get a new drivers license (and pay for it) every single time you move. And maybe I'm in the minority, but for all four years of college, I had four different addresses. And since college, I've still had the pleasure of moving every single year. I was lucky to use my moms address at first and vote in her parish, but when she moved, we both got the boot from the voter registry.

That said, I don't know what would've made that hassle less of one. Except maybe voter registration being embedded in my DNA

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:15 pm 
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When I was in college, I just didn't update my address or license until I was required to renew. Everything was within a few miles anyway. But you don't have to pay for a new license to update voting information.

I think there are complications either way. I don't think we need people voting for the governor in two separate precincts so they would have to track who voted where. Given what else the state seemingly can't handle, this sounds like a bad idea.

Overall, I think college students are maybe the least likely to be disenfranchised simply because most college campuses are stuffed full with voting registration booths around election times and students need so much documentation to attend that they aren't likely to be lacking there.

Of course, my opinion on this is tempered by the fact that this is how it's always been here so it makes sense to me. I'm sure I'd be pissed too if I'd been voting a certain way and that was being taken away.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:18 pm 
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Jon Stewart did a great job on explaining the ins and outs of the voter id laws and why they are problematic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/1 ... 95832.html

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:21 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
Overall, I think college students are maybe the least likely to be disenfranchised simply because most college campuses are stuffed full with voting registration booths around election times and students need so much documentation to attend that they aren't likely to be lacking there.


these voter registration booths are also targeted in all this. in some states, they only have 48 hours to file the new voter registration forms with election officials.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Jon Stewart did a great job on explaining the ins and outs of the voter id laws and why they are problematic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/1 ... 95832.html


If I wasn't clear, I agree that they are problematic. There are a lot of issues to be addressed before they would not be. I also think that helping disenfranchised people get ids is something we should be doing anyway. If they are disenfranchised from voting, they are also most likdisease later from other benefits and services they deserve and could use. For example, homeless vets who are unable to get or cash their disability checks due to lack of address. There are people in rural sw Virginia who have never had a birth certificate or social security card. How would they get those things wothout expert assistance? Uet, without those they cant get access to medical care, food stamps, etc.

If we fix those issues, voter id laws shouldn't have an impact on who can or can't vote. If we don't fix those, voter id laws are punitive. So, I guess I support voter Id laws in a lala fantasy land?

The only point in the article I was questioning is college students voting in different places. I could well be overlooking something there or being overly simplistic, but voting in your district of official residence makes sense to me. I've never lived in a state where this was not the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Hardcastle McCormick wrote:
lavawitch wrote:
Overall, I think college students are maybe the least likely to be disenfranchised simply because most college campuses are stuffed full with voting registration booths around election times and students need so much documentation to attend that they aren't likely to be lacking there.


these voter registration booths are also targeted in all this. in some states, they only have 48 hours to file the new voter registration forms with election officials.


The voter restrictions are being written with the specific purpose of disenfranchising college students (who are seen as tending to be liberal), they aren't just incidentally being swept up in broader restrictions by other groups (comma splice!). And the kind of documentation they have may not be the kind they need.

The NYT had a really good article on how college students get disenfranchised.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/27/opini ... polls.html

Quote:
Sorry, they will hear, you have an out-of-state driver’s license. Sorry, your college ID is not valid here. Sorry, we found out that you paid out-of-state tuition, so even though you do have a state driver’s license, you still can’t vote.

Seven states have already passed strict laws requiring a government-issued ID (like a driver’s license or a passport) to vote, which many students don’t have, and 27 others are considering such measures. Many of those laws have been interpreted as prohibiting out-of-state driver’s licenses from being used for voting.


When I was in college, we were told that you had to vote in the town your parents were from, not in the town where the university was, even though legally you can vote anywhere you consider to be "home." (http://www.brennancenter.org/content/student_voting/) This meant that although the students lived in the town, which remains a huge college town, they had no say in how it was run. And that anyone who wanted to vote had to make the trek home, instead of just going to the polls, casting their vote and then going back to bed or class.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:57 pm 
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If a student votes in their college state, what stops them from also voting in their home state?

This is where I'm getting stuck.

In other states, can people not have an absentee ballot mailed to them? Here we can return them to any polling station. I changed my registration to my college town, but my roommate wanted to keep hers and did the absentee thing. When I was in college in Chicago, I had to do the absentee thing too (this was many years ago and I was sad that my first presidential election was a boring mail in paper ballot).

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Reading what you posted specifically about Wisconsin makes more sense. That is a clear, evil abuse of power.

I sort of think we are talking about different things here. You are talking about taking away rights and I'm talking about not being upset at not having had those rights in the first place.

So, taking away rights: Bad. Very Bad.
Long term pre-existing status quo with reasonably clear and accessible procedure: ehn, doesn't bother me as long as everybody can vote somewhere

ETA: Wisconsin really is forked lately. Are they snorting cheese curds out behind the state coral building or something?

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:09 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
If a student votes in their college state, what stops them from also voting in their home state?

This is where I'm getting stuck.


First, you attest that you live at a given address, so if you lie and attest to living somewhere you don't you're committing fraud and you can be prosecuted. And second, the vote is on the same day at the moment. So why would anyone want to travel to two different states, stand in line at the polling place, and subject themselves to the risk of criminal prosecution just to vote twice?

As the Daily Show link documents (its definitely worth watching), there have been only 10 cases of voter fraud since 2000. In reality, our problem as a country is low voter turn-out, especially with minorities, the elderly, the poor etc being kept from voting, not election fraud. Oh and the fact that the wealthy can give as much money as they want anonymously, and we pretend that all that money doesn't affect the way people decide to vote and just call it free speech.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Those are good points.

I was thinking more of absentee ballots as those are what most college students here use. I don't know anyone who drives far to vote.

Voter turn out is crepe. It's crepe everywhere. Quite a few teachers were "too busy" to go vote last year which really mystified me: you got the day off specifically because of voting for cripes sake.

For more minor elections, the polls are always deserted. We take a lot for granted in this country and now I think we are seeing some of the result in these crazy asparagus politicians that seem to be multiplying like rabbits. I mean, I'm starting to think that Romney is a super great guy. Sane, calm, and not too scary. Then I realize that it's just because everybody else isnt even hiding the batshit any longer.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:29 am 
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Voter turn-out is crepe because our electoral system strongly discourages participation. We have lots of problems we should be fixing (the 18th century absurdity of the electoral college, the fact that voting takes place on a weekday with no guarantee of time off, our partisan electoral commissions, etc). Voter ID is a solution in search of a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:06 am 
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Does anyone know the penalties for registering to vote when you are not supposed to be eligible to do so, and how quickly people get caught? I only ask because it would be very easy for me to register online and then go vote. I wonder if there is anyone who actually verifies the information a potential voter submits, and then what...they send a cop to your house?

I am not about to break the law and do this, but it looks to me like a weak spot, regardless of the ID laws or lack thereof.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:27 am 
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if they get rid of electoral college, then it won't matter which state you vote in.

does everybody not have a social security number? if you pay taxes (or have ever paid taxes in the past), you should be able to vote. instead of having votes tied to a name, they should be tied to a social security number. that way there is no overlap, therefore no fraud.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:42 am 
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But you could have a social security number and pay taxes and not be eligible to vote.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:43 am 
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Angelina wrote:
Does anyone know the penalties for registering to vote when you are not supposed to be eligible to do so, and how quickly people get caught? I only ask because it would be very easy for me to register online and then go vote. I wonder if there is anyone who actually verifies the information a potential voter submits, and then what...they send a cop to your house?

I am not about to break the law and do this, but it looks to me like a weak spot, regardless of the ID laws or lack thereof.


I'm not sure exactly how much they check, but I used to live in a place that address-wise indicated that I was in one county, but in reality was in a neighboring county (confusing, I know). As we hoped to not live there long and I didn't know anything about the government of the neighboring county I apparently lived in, I tried to just update my voter registration (in my original county) to the new address. They did at least do enough checking to realize that my address wasn't in that county. (I have since moved and all is right with my voter registration again.)


Last edited by Tzippy on Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:49 am 
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supercarrot wrote:
if they get rid of electoral college, then it won't matter which state you vote in.

does everybody not have a social security number? if you pay taxes (or have ever paid taxes in the past), you should be able to vote. instead of having votes tied to a name, they should be tied to a social security number. that way there is no overlap, therefore no fraud.

taxpayer =/= citizen

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 Post subject: Re: Voting rights being threatened in several states
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:50 am 
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When my mom moved they kicked us both off the registry within a month, so I know they were checking. And I do have my conspiracy theories that it's because we were democrats in a very red parish. BUT they still let my mom vote in that parish for a local election.

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