| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:44 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:25 am 
Offline
Grandfathered In
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 9620
Location: Seattle
(NOM = National Organization for Marriage.)

I don't know how Savage* could stand to have this guy in his house. I had to leave the room where Mrs. Face was watching this video because it just got too infuriating. And the NOM guy's overwhelming persecution complex was really hard to take. As was his nonstop tone-trolling. And his arrogance-disguised-as-humble-piety. I barf on you, sir!



*Full disclosure: Dan Savage was the officiant at my wedding in 1997.

_________________
Did somebody say Keep on rockin?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:16 am 
Offline
Dead by dawn
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:54 pm
Posts: 7936
Location: Seattle
Ooh, I heard this was happening. I will at least try to watch it.

_________________
facebook
"The PPK: Come for the pie; stay for the croissants." - tinglepants!
"Cockblocked by Richard Branson- again!" - Erika Soyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:40 am 
Offline
Top of the food chain & doesn't need to prove it
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:27 am
Posts: 652
Location: Southern Maryland
Can anyone cliffs notes this? I already know I will not be able to stomach watching it.

_________________
Imma let you finish, but the Paranthropus Boisei were the greatest vegans ever.

Ugh I saw all these cave paintings complaining about vegan cheese options. I don't miss those days. -Isa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:20 pm 
Offline
Grandfathered In
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 9620
Location: Seattle
In a nutshell: gay people shouldn't be able to get married because, um... Well, as the bible says... And also, one man and one woman is special and everyone knows it!

_________________
Did somebody say Keep on rockin?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:21 pm 
Offline
Grandfathered In
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 9620
Location: Seattle
Oh! And stop beating up on the people who want to bar gays from marriage! You're hurting our feelings!

_________________
Did somebody say Keep on rockin?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:04 am 
Offline
Dying from Nooch Lung
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:50 pm
Posts: 3240
Location: The Bene
I think Dan Savage showed remarkable restraint by not lunging across the table and throttling Brown. Lard knows I wanted to jump through the screen and smack him.

Seriously, the lack of logic on the part of people like Brian Brown never ceases to amaze me. He can see that it would make no sense to legislate against divorce, despite his own religious beliefs against it, but he can't take the same logical leap when it comes to marriage equality. Folks like this remind me of the people who get up in arms because a university opens up one measly vegan dining hall, but still has twenty dining halls that serve meat. Dog forbid we become more inclusive. That might threaten your hegemony.

_________________
Ain't no guarantees in life, and nothing that comes out of my vagina can change that. - Erika Soyf*cker

I'd rather have a cupcake and a matte stomach. - Desdemona


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:40 pm 
Offline
Bathes in Braggs
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:03 pm
Posts: 1332
Location: Denver
I watched the whole thing earlier this week, and was hoping they would tape the rest of the conversation! Dan was totally just getting started.

_________________
my roommate spilled tuna juice on the bathroom floor while he was eating on the toilet! should i bleach the floor or just tear up the tile? - acr
Vegan Coloradical


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:44 pm 
Offline
Has Isa on speed dial
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:00 pm
Posts: 80
Thanks for posting this Footface, I finally got around to watching it.

You’re synopsis is dead on, so I don’t have much to add there, but still, it was useful to hear out Brain Brown’s “arguments.”

Debating religious scripture with apologists is almost always a big waste of time but at some point the non-believer has to engage in these Biblical details and wind up poking holes in Jello. Secularists point to the contradictions in the Bible as a weakness, but it’s really its strength since it can be used to support any perspective.

Anyway, my favorite the bit when Dan Savage said that gay marriage is reality in Canada and elsewhere, the Brain Brown retorted that no, that’s not reality because that conflicts with what he has made up in his mind.

Formal debates in front of an audience tend to lead to grandstanding and point scoring, but a dinner table chat is a nice format for this sort of thing, I wouldn't mind if some other opposing advocates picked up on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:21 pm 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:39 pm
Posts: 1901
Location: St. John's Newfoundland
Things like this makes me so mixed, because Savage is a dickweed who thinks bisexuals don't exist and are just cowards too afraid to come out of the closet, and is very transphobic. You could film a similar video with him being a dick to a trans* person.

_________________
I was really surprised the first time I saw a penis. After those banana tutorials, I was expecting something so different. -Tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:19 pm 
Offline
Nailed to the V
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:19 pm
Posts: 533
Location: TN
Shy Mox wrote:
Things like this makes me so mixed, because Savage is a dickweed who thinks bisexuals don't exist and are just cowards too afraid to come out of the closet, and is very transphobic. You could film a similar video with him being a dick to a trans* person.

i think savage has made some statements in the past which he later apologized for and clarified in favor of the bi and trans communities. he regularly has bi and trans advocates on his podcast as experts to comment and help the callers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:23 pm 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:39 pm
Posts: 1901
Location: St. John's Newfoundland
chouettes crêpes wrote:
Shy Mox wrote:
Things like this makes me so mixed, because Savage is a dickweed who thinks bisexuals don't exist and are just cowards too afraid to come out of the closet, and is very transphobic. You could film a similar video with him being a dick to a trans* person.

i think savage has made some statements in the past which he later apologized for and clarified in favor of the bi and trans communities. he regularly has bi and trans advocates on his podcast as experts to comment and help the callers.


If he has to repeatedly apologize, is he really sorry or motivated to change? Dude might not mind bi women but he sure as shiitake doesn't like bi men and has said so repeatedly.

_________________
I was really surprised the first time I saw a penis. After those banana tutorials, I was expecting something so different. -Tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:37 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19105
Location: Cliffbar NJ
I have said offensive things without meaning to and been called out more than once. I am motivated to change, but sometimes my old conditioning (like assuming that someone is straight or using the "wrong" pronoun) kicks in.

Also, I didn't think the video was "Dan Savage being a dick" I thought he was allowing Brown to state his arguments and letting those arguments be judged on their own (lack of) merit.

But yeah, Dan Savage can be a dick. Lots of his anti-vegan jokes are stupid.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:43 pm 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:39 pm
Posts: 1901
Location: St. John's Newfoundland
But do you continue to be a bigot? he still denies being biphobic and does the whole "some of my best friends are bi" thing, but at the same time keeps going on about how horrible bisexual people are.

I know thats not the content of the video, but the hypocrisy gets to me and it still depresses me that he's a celebrated head of the (white, cisgender) gay rights movement.

_________________
I was really surprised the first time I saw a penis. After those banana tutorials, I was expecting something so different. -Tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:57 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19105
Location: Cliffbar NJ
Well, that is a different assertion :) I am not trying to defend Dan Savage, who is by all accounts a bit of a dick (esp to vegans :) ). My response just was to you saying that:

Quote:
If he has to repeatedly apologize, is he really sorry or motivated to change?


As someone who has had to apologize more than once for being a crasshole inadvertently and keeps learning (I hope!) from her idiotic blunders.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:57 pm 
Offline
Fair trade, organic mistletoe
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 3507
Location: Toronto
He also talks about vulvas and vaginas in really disparaging and, frankly, misogynistic ways.

_________________
"I'd rather have dried catshit! I'd rather have astroturf! I'd rather have an igloo!"~Isa

"But really, anyone willing to dangle their baby in front of a crocodile is A-OK in my book."~SSD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:03 pm 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:39 pm
Posts: 1901
Location: St. John's Newfoundland
Right, I should have worded that better! What I mean to say is he keeps doing the same things over and over, apologizes (but in a very non-apology, tone policing way) and then keeps being extremely hurtful, I very much doubt his sincerity. Totally different from awesome people who are trying to deconstruct their various privileges.

_________________
I was really surprised the first time I saw a penis. After those banana tutorials, I was expecting something so different. -Tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:07 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19105
Location: Cliffbar NJ
And he is fat-phobic and has said things that are on the edge of being a rape apologist.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:45 pm 
Offline
No-pants hermit 4 lyfe
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 3135
Location: BKLN
dan savage has unfortunate blind spots, as i imagine many people do (i don't know anything about the rape-apologist stuff, so i'm not considering that), but as far as this particular argument is concerned, i agree with him completely. to me, the depressing part of this discourse, and others like it, is that both sides are speaking their whole truths. brown believes that his interpretation of scripture is valid and right and that he understands the true nature of humanity, and that he is being respectful of other views in spite of that, and even that he is the persecuted party in many respects. that seems outrageous to me, but this conversation went on for an hour, and he wasn't moved a millimeter by the end of it. he will not be moved. he is just as offended by the opposing argument as we are. i don't know how we as a society make progress if this exact sort of exchange doesn't take place, but i watch this exact exchange take place over and over in all kinds of forums and always see two parties becoming ever more entrenched in their original views, and i don't know what to do. i guess it's why i spend so much time here; you all seem so reasonable compared to those 3D weirdos (go ahead and call me dimensionalist, i don't even care).

_________________
"rise from the ashes of douchebaggery like a fancy vegan phoenix" - amandabear
"I'm pretty sure the moral of this story is: fork pants." - cq


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:40 am 
Offline
Nailed to the V
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:19 pm
Posts: 533
Location: TN
i think the guy takes on some really controversial topics, but i think he addresses the individual situations with as educated of an opinion as he can-- and sometimes that educated opinion is simply how he feels because it's his syndicated sex and love advice column/ podcast after all. i'm inclined to believe some of you are listening and hearing what you want to hear, i.e. dan savage is an anti-bi bigot with other reprehensible views. but what do i know. i like listening to his podcast and i feel it's helped me learn to better relate to whatever love and sex relationships i encounter.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:43 am 
Offline
Nailed to the V
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:19 pm
Posts: 533
Location: TN
but i am glad he was able to have brian brown over to his house like that. although i'm not sure anyone learned anything from the experience. it's hard to have a rational argument or conversation with someone who denies whichever aspects of reality he wishes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:02 am 
Offline
Fair trade, organic mistletoe
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 3507
Location: Toronto
Why does it make more sense to assume that a large number of people* are "hearing what they want to hear" than that there are places where he has blindspots and bigoted opinions?

*Google Dan Savage and biphobia or fatphobia or misogyny.

_________________
"I'd rather have dried catshit! I'd rather have astroturf! I'd rather have an igloo!"~Isa

"But really, anyone willing to dangle their baby in front of a crocodile is A-OK in my book."~SSD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:50 pm 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:39 pm
Posts: 1901
Location: St. John's Newfoundland
j-dub wrote:
Why does it make more sense to assume that a large number of people* are "hearing what they want to hear" than that there are places where he has blindspots and bigoted opinions?

*Google Dan Savage and biphobia or fatphobia or misogyny.


Sometimes I feel like society is accepting its not okay to be homophobic towards cis white gay men, but transphobia, biphobia, fatphobia and misogyny are just honest mistakes and forgivable "blind spots" rather than hatred and bigotry.

_________________
I was really surprised the first time I saw a penis. After those banana tutorials, I was expecting something so different. -Tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:07 pm 
Offline
Fair trade, organic mistletoe
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 3507
Location: Toronto
Shy Mox wrote:
j-dub wrote:
Why does it make more sense to assume that a large number of people* are "hearing what they want to hear" than that there are places where he has blindspots and bigoted opinions?

*Google Dan Savage and biphobia or fatphobia or misogyny.


Sometimes I feel like society is accepting its not okay to be homophobic towards cis white gay men, but transphobia, biphobia, fatphobia and misogyny are just honest mistakes and forgivable "blind spots" rather than hatred and bigotry.

You bet. Because white, male privilege is a powerful thing. Have you read anything about homonationalism and queer assimilation? I can recommend a few things if you'd like.

_________________
"I'd rather have dried catshit! I'd rather have astroturf! I'd rather have an igloo!"~Isa

"But really, anyone willing to dangle their baby in front of a crocodile is A-OK in my book."~SSD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:33 pm 
Offline
Nailed to the V
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:19 pm
Posts: 533
Location: TN
i just kinda think he used to say anti bi things and other stuff that pissed me off too and lately he's realized how wrong he was and he seems to be doing his best not to do that. but that's just my experience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dan Savage has the NOM guy over for dinner and debate
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:39 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19105
Location: Cliffbar NJ
I googled (cuz j-dub said to, and she has never steered me wrong). Here is something Dan said in June 2011. Bisexuals you need to come out now! Victim blaming flicks the weasel.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer