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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Doesn't sound like my philosophy is all that different from Ginny Messina's, which is kind of a relief to me:

When vegans get cancer

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Any chance we could actually bring this back to discussion of Mark Bittman's blog post?

Beanitarian wrote:
FootFace wrote:
It just seems silly to say that cow's milk is good for you because it's a source of vitamin D.


It is also inappropriate and potentially dangerous to suggest that people give up what is likely their major source of vitamin D without suggesting an alternative (supplements or other fortified foods). Suggesting sunshine as a source is completely unreasonable for most people in the US. Even if it were possible to produce enough vitamin D from sunlight alone (which I think most people are aware is not possible in the northern US), the increased UV exposure would increase the risk of skin cancer, which is not a good trade off.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Mark Bittman's writing and appreciate that he is attempting to increase acceptance of plant-based diets. But he is neither a dietitian nor a scientist. He is a food writer and is most qualified to be commenting on how delicious and satisfying vegan foods are, not health benefits unless he is consulting knowledgeable and unbiased sources.


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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Love Ginny Messina! She's also recently written (emphasis mine):

Quote:
Eating more whole plant foods and fewer animal products is very likely to produce health benefits, especially for those who were eating more typical American fare beforehand. But, a vegan diet isn’t a promise that you’ll never experience any health problems or that you’ll get the body you’ve always wanted. If you expect it to do those things, you may end up being disappointed and might feel like a vegan diet “doesn’t work.” In fact, veganism always works. It will shrink your carbon footprint, and remove your contribution to some of the worst animal cruelty on earth. If those are your expectations, you’ll never be disappointed. Any health improvements you experience are nice fringe benefits.


This is why, for me, the ethical arguments for veganism will always be more compelling than the health arguments.

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:41 pm 
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I think it's a great thing that there are plenty of compelling arguments in veganism's favor.

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:49 am 
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Sardines are the answer. I've heard other people say that vegans can suffer from a number of deficiencies including vitamin D. When you look up the food sources of vitamin D, nobody eats that shiitake, vegan or not. No wonder it's a cause of concern lately. So, I'd agree with saying if you give up milk, which has vitamin D added, you should also tell people good sources of calcium and vitamin D.

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:14 pm 
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I have never heard Barnard promise that a plant-based diet will cure cancer. There are terrific arguments for veganism based on human health and its disappointing that Messina feels the need to undermine these. The more arguments, the better. Right?

And to get back on topic isn't it amazing that there was an opinion piece from a foodie demigod in the NYT arguing against dairy! I personally believe that Bittman is single-handedly responsible for the recent prevalance of vegan options in "foodie" restaurants.


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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Uh, he says that apple pie is best in a single crust. Sorry, but that pretty much negates anything else in this article.

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Lard knows, anyone who has a doctor who wrote a book about ---
Quote:
Detoxification promotes wellness by ridding the body of poisons that can lead to a host of health problems ranging from fatigue and depression to cancer and diabetes. This revised edition of the popular nutrition-based health guide presents new advice and up-to-date information on detoxification and healing.


is a mighty source of good medical advice.

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:48 pm 
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IsaChandra wrote:
Uh, he says that apple pie is best in a single crust. Sorry, but that pretty much negates anything else in this article.


Not only that, but he admitted that he doesn't really like apple pie.

a terrible person wrote:
Of all the ways you can combine cooked apples, butter, flour and so on, pie is not nearly the best.

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Why does he hate America?

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:28 pm 
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bunniee wrote:
IsaChandra wrote:
Uh, he says that apple pie is best in a single crust. Sorry, but that pretty much negates anything else in this article.


Not only that, but he admitted that he doesn't really like apple pie.

a terrible person wrote:
Of all the ways you can combine cooked apples, butter, flour and so on, pie is not nearly the best.

Oh ok. This totally explains why he would try to sabotage everyone else's pies.

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:42 am 
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bunniee wrote:
IsaChandra wrote:
Uh, he says that apple pie is best in a single crust. Sorry, but that pretty much negates anything else in this article.


Not only that, but he admitted that he doesn't really like apple pie.

a terrible person wrote:
Of all the ways you can combine cooked apples, butter, flour and so on, pie is not nearly the best.

crisp for the win.

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 Post subject: Re: bittman: got milk? you don't need it
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:50 am 
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EmperorTomatoKetchup wrote:
bunniee wrote:
IsaChandra wrote:
Uh, he says that apple pie is best in a single crust. Sorry, but that pretty much negates anything else in this article.


Not only that, but he admitted that he doesn't really like apple pie.

a terrible person wrote:
Of all the ways you can combine cooked apples, butter, flour and so on, pie is not nearly the best.

crisp for the win.
Crisp and pie both have their merits, but apple crumble kicks their collective asparagus.

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