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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:49 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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So I cooked up my air dried cheddar. All was smooth, I had no lumps, then BAM, it was like freaking tapioca pudding. I whisked and stirred forever and things just continued to get worse, so I finally cut my losses and scraped it into a mold. Then, this morning, it wouldn't come out of the mold, probably because all the magic that was supposed to make it firm is in ball form throughout the mixture. So I scraped it onto some parchment and am now hoping for the best. Not hopeful. I shoulda just grabbed a spoon and eaten it from the bowl.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:17 am 
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So Excited :) I found this months Veg News :) So Extra cheese recipes!

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:53 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Words cannot describe how much I love the Pub Cheddar. I just had it on toast because it's morning and I couldn't think of any other way to eat it.

Also, I think my above fail was because of ingredients, not the recipe.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:15 am 
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I failed at the VegNews mozz recipe. The yogurt went through EIGHT layers of cheesecloth and a mesh strainer. So it reduced, sure, but only because half of it was in the bottom of the bowl.

Maybe I'll brave the version with rejuvelac.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:54 am 
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I made the sharp cheddar, Swiss and Brie from vegnews. The brie is divine but the coconut oil was oozing out of the pan while it was chilling in the fridge. It is still firm and sliceable and we love it, taste and texture are awesome.
The Swiss never got "hard", it's like a dip, but still very delicious. It's almost all gone, eaten by myself. Here come the pounds on my hips... I will have to try the Swiss again and cook longer/more. The cheddar didn't work very well either, it was very moist and soft, again probably cooking issues. I took it out of the fridge about a week later to let it air dry because it's just so wet. Maybe that'll help. Initially the taste was awesome, now it just tastes weird. I may have to try another batch too.
My yogurt is also very runny and I'm not sure how I'm going to get it reduced without loosing a lot. I do want to try the mozzarella. Unsweetened store bought yogurt is not available here.

I've had cooking issues with all three cheeses. They mixture is so dry so that when I cook it it just burns to the bottom of the pan. It clumps up immediately and almost impossible to stir it is so thick. Which is funny because the cheddar and Swiss were too moist. Maybe I should cook the agar first and then add it to the cheese. Are the instructions a bit more detailed in the book than in Vegnews? I'm thinking of getting the book but if I'm not doing something right, will I get it from the book.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:54 am 
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I have one general suggestion to make about measuring liquid ingredients. Don't use a pyrex-type measuring cup for amounts less than 1 cup. Use the dry measuring cups that come in different sizes. In one of my classes, I had students each measure what they thought was 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 cup using a liquid measuring cup. We then weighed them, as well as compared them in the exact size dry measuring cups. The discrepancies were HUGE. It is very hard to eyeball an increment smaller than 1 cup using a liquid measuring cup. I bet some of the issues people have arise out of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:04 am 
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Max&Moritz, I'm experiencing the same challenges with runny yogurt (tastes great, though) and the Swiss that is so dry that I can't ever get it to boil. It's just such a heavy thick paste that it burns if I try to keep it on the heat long enough to boil. I haven't tried any cheese making for over a week since my last few attempts weren't great and we still have some gruyere and cheddar which are tasty. Neither of those ever got sliceably firm but they are super yummy on a veggie panini.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:12 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Max (and Amy!), have you tried a nutmilk bag? I ordered one on amazon, and though I haven't used it for yogurt reduction yet, it looks as though it should work very well for that purpose. As for the yogurt, when mine has been too thin, I've just found a slightly warmer spot to culture it and it's always thickened up. Something I'm planning on trying (thanks to Alton Brown) is to order a small electric heating pad, like the kind for your back, to use for culturing yogurt and proofing bread dough.

I don't recall the instructions for adding the agar, but it may work better to get it started and then add it to the cheese. I know many other recipes I've used involving agar (not recipes for cheese) often use the method of cooking the agar then blending like crazy with ingredients. Then sometimes cooking more. Or you may just want to temper it by adding the agar to a small amount of cheese mixture, mixing thoroughly, adding a bit more cheese mix, and then adding that to the pan to cook...if that makes no sense, google how to temper an egg for a better explanation.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:13 am 
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Max&Moritz wrote:
I made the sharp cheddar, Swiss and Brie from vegnews. The brie is divine but the coconut oil was oozing out of the pan while it was chilling in the fridge. It is still firm and sliceable and we love it, taste and texture are awesome.
The Swiss never got "hard", it's like a dip, but still very delicious. It's almost all gone, eaten by myself. Here come the pounds on my hips... I will have to try the Swiss again and cook longer/more. The cheddar didn't work very well either, it was very moist and soft, again probably cooking issues. I took it out of the fridge about a week later to let it air dry because it's just so wet. Maybe that'll help. Initially the taste was awesome, now it just tastes weird. I may have to try another batch too.
My yogurt is also very runny and I'm not sure how I'm going to get it reduced without loosing a lot. I do want to try the mozzarella. Unsweetened store bought yogurt is not available here.

I've had cooking issues with all three cheeses. They mixture is so dry so that when I cook it it just burns to the bottom of the pan. It clumps up immediately and almost impossible to stir it is so thick. Which is funny because the cheddar and Swiss were too moist. Maybe I should cook the agar first and then add it to the cheese. Are the instructions a bit more detailed in the book than in Vegnews? I'm thinking of getting the book but if I'm not doing something right, will I get it from the book.


Are you adding the tapioca along with the agar to the Swiss? From reading your post, my guess is that you aren't fully cooking the cheese mixture with the agar before adding the tapioca. In other words, the agar hasn't had a chance to dissolve fully. Also make sure you are using pure agar, not the ones cut with sugar and other stabilizers. It make take longer than the 5 minutes the VegNews recipe says. Here's one suggestion. Start the mixture on low heat and use a lid. This will ensure that the mixture stays more liquidy to allow the agar to dissolve fully. Stir every 30 seconds or so. Keep it going that way until you see it bubbling like crazy. It must come to a full boil (I think that was edited out of the article), then boiled for another minute or so, before you add the tapioca mixture. THis should ensure that the agar sets. You don't want to introduce more liquid, as it affects the texture of the cheese.

Regarding thin yogurt, did you make it yourself? Are you making the yogurt recipe from the book? If not, watch my video for making yogurt on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMJZkbDH9g In other words, start out with a good yogurt. Another method for making thick yogurt is to boil down the soymilk until reduced by about 20% before you make it (instead of adding cashews as the recipe or video suggest). To drain yogurt once it's made, use a nutmilk or fine mesh bag for produce. Cheesecloth, depending on the brand, can be very loose. Also, commercial soy yogurt often has tapioca and other stabilizers in it to thicken it, and sometimes doesn't drain well. Part two of the YouTube video attached shows how to make yogurt cheese. You can see a picture of how thick it's supposed to look. It's one of those Supreme Master Television videos, so the multiple languages can be somewhat annoying, but it might be helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:15 am 
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Posts: 100
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Max&Moritz wrote:
I made the sharp cheddar, Swiss and Brie from vegnews. The brie is divine but the coconut oil was oozing out of the pan while it was chilling in the fridge. It is still firm and sliceable and we love it, taste and texture are awesome.
The Swiss never got "hard", it's like a dip, but still very delicious. It's almost all gone, eaten by myself. Here come the pounds on my hips... I will have to try the Swiss again and cook longer/more. The cheddar didn't work very well either, it was very moist and soft, again probably cooking issues. I took it out of the fridge about a week later to let it air dry because it's just so wet. Maybe that'll help. Initially the taste was awesome, now it just tastes weird. I may have to try another batch too.
My yogurt is also very runny and I'm not sure how I'm going to get it reduced without loosing a lot. I do want to try the mozzarella. Unsweetened store bought yogurt is not available here.

I've had cooking issues with all three cheeses. They mixture is so dry so that when I cook it it just burns to the bottom of the pan. It clumps up immediately and almost impossible to stir it is so thick. Which is funny because the cheddar and Swiss were too moist. Maybe I should cook the agar first and then add it to the cheese. Are the instructions a bit more detailed in the book than in Vegnews? I'm thinking of getting the book but if I'm not doing something right, will I get it from the book.


Coconut oil oozing means the mixture was cooked a tad bit too long. Oil will separate if cooked too long. Unfortunately, these are new techniques, and there is a learning curve.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:30 am 
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miyokoschinner wrote:
Regarding thin yogurt, did you make it yourself? Are you making the yogurt recipe from the book? If not, watch my video for making yogurt on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMJZkbDH9g


Amazing! At 4 hours mine is never set, but at 6 it's separated. Always works for cheese, but I'd love to make some for cereal too. That is gorgeous stuff, Miyoko.

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:22 pm 
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kittee wrote:
miyokoschinner wrote:
Regarding thin yogurt, did you make it yourself? Are you making the yogurt recipe from the book? If not, watch my video for making yogurt on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMJZkbDH9g


Amazing! At 4 hours mine is never set, but at 6 it's separated. Always works for cheese, but I'd love to make some for cereal too. That is gorgeous stuff, Miyoko.


If it separates, the heat is too high (for incubation). Do you have a dehydrator? If so, set it at 110 and try it in there. And try 5 hours! Or turn your oven onto the lowest setting for a half hour, then turn off. Wrap your jars well and put in your oven. Do you use a thermometer?


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Miyoko, thank you so much for tuning in!

i was considering buying a dehydrator on Amazon. I don't know much about them but I was wondering if they might also be useful for air drying? i'm about to embark on yogurt making and this will give me yet another motivation to stuff my tiny kitchen with yet another appliance.

any advice or info on dehydrators would be much appreciated - i've never even seen one!


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:56 pm 
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lululuv wrote:
Miyoko, thank you so much for tuning in!

i was considering buying a dehydrator on Amazon. I don't know much about them but I was wondering if they might also be useful for air drying? i'm about to embark on yogurt making and this will give me yet another motivation to stuff my tiny kitchen with yet another appliance.

any advice or info on dehydrators would be much appreciated - i've never even seen one!


I won't be able to tune in for a few days now. It's funny - I didn't even know about the PPK board until someone told me about the cheese discussion. I thought that was pretty cool. And I want people to succeed. I know there's a learning curve.

I don't have a dehydrator - my oven works as one (goes down to 100). I know some raw foodists use their dehydrators to make cheese and create a "rind" in about 24 hours, but my experience is that the cheese just gets tangy fast, and doesn't develop the other more complex flavors. That's why real dairy cheese is aged. There's something to be said for slow food. I tried the Gouda in there, and it just got a crust and became tangy, but didn't develop the creamy, sliceable interior with the deeper flavors. Same with several other cheeses. But it works great for making yogurt, which is something that is supposed to be ready in a few hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Thank you so much, Miyoko! that helps a bunch.

if i were a web wiz i would start a Miyoko cheesemakers forum. thank goodness for the PPK - so glad you found it!

miyokoschinner wrote:
lululuv wrote:
Miyoko, thank you so much for tuning in!

i was considering buying a dehydrator on Amazon. I don't know much about them but I was wondering if they might also be useful for air drying? i'm about to embark on yogurt making and this will give me yet another motivation to stuff my tiny kitchen with yet another appliance.

any advice or info on dehydrators would be much appreciated - i've never even seen one!


I won't be able to tune in for a few days now. It's funny - I didn't even know about the PPK board until someone told me about the cheese discussion. I thought that was pretty cool. And I want people to succeed. I know there's a learning curve.

I don't have a dehydrator - my oven works as one (goes down to 100). I know some raw foodists use their dehydrators to make cheese and create a "rind" in about 24 hours, but my experience is that the cheese just gets tangy fast, and doesn't develop the other more complex flavors. That's why real dairy cheese is aged. There's something to be said for slow food. I tried the Gouda in there, and it just got a crust and became tangy, but didn't develop the creamy, sliceable interior with the deeper flavors. Same with several other cheeses. But it works great for making yogurt, which is something that is supposed to be ready in a few hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:41 pm 
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miyokoschinner wrote:
If it separates, the heat is too high (for incubation). Do you have a dehydrator? If so, set it at 110 and try it in there. And try 5 hours! Or turn your oven onto the lowest setting for a half hour, then turn off. Wrap your jars well and put in your oven. Do you use a thermometer?


I've done it two ways:
I have a "proofing" setting on my oven.
And wrapping in towels and putting outside.

The oven setting is designed for proofing yeast, so I can't imagine that it would be very warm. Harumph.
I don't use a thermometer, but I do have a dehydrator, so I'll try that next.

Thanks!!
xo
kittee

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:43 pm 
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We definitely need a cheese board (wow bad pun, not intended!), we need a thread per cheese. I have yoghurt in the oven right now, melty cheddar tomorrow. This hits my geek-spot square on, joy!


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:31 pm 
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starrynight87 wrote:
daisysunshine wrote:
Hmm. mine smells to high heaven.... but no lemon yet.

Probably not a good sign? Mine successfully finished today, and it smells tangy.

Now I have to remember to stop at the Asian market tomorrow for some miso.


sigh. This is where my second attempt at rejuvelac is at. My millet sprouted, and the water is cloudy, but it does not smell tangy. It smells meh. Nothing ROTTEN, but I'm worried.

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Can we talk about what brand of carageenan everyone is using? And does yours smell really bad? I found irish moss powder at a natural food store and this stuff STINKS. Like, beyond fishy. Rotten fish or something. It makes me retch anytime I get a whiff of it, so I was a bit apprehensive putting it into the cheeses, but I did anyways. I tried the monterey jack, and the smell didn't go away even after cooking. I had to throw it out, because the whole batch just tasted like it smelled. It faired a bit better in the air-dried camembert, but there are more things in that to cover up the flavor. The fresh mozzarella is only tolerable if I put lots of other things on it/around it. I know that the prob. is the irish moss powder, because everything tastes fine before I add that in, so I obviously need to get a different carageenan...

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:10 pm 
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i'm using willpowder brand kappa and it smells a little fishy, too. i've definitely noticed it in the cheese.

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Daphne wrote:
I only use quinoa for rejuvelac. Its easy and sprouts fast.

Soak quinoa 3-8 hours. Drain. Rinse. Place in sieve or other draining device. cover with a cloth and place in a dark place that is not too hot or cold. (I put mine inside of my microwave with the light off)

every hour or so, RINSE quinoa. put back in dark place. do this for about two days. IF you cant get to it every hour or so, dont worry...just do it when you remember.

on about the second or third day, you will see little tails. I usually wait for the tails to get a little longish and then I place them in a large glass container or bowl and add filtered water. cover with cloth and place in dark place. let sit for two days. Occasionally STIR the mix to give it some extra fermenting power.

Taste it on the second or third day. It should look cloudy and taste lemony-smokey. It should taste FRESH. If it tastes rotten or bad, toss it, because it is bad. This is not a common thing--I have had this happen only once in all my years of making the stuff.

Rejuvelac is not hard to make and dont stress out. I read these posts and see so many people stressing over rejuvelac. Go for the easiest grain to sprout: QUINOA. And dont worry so much. It will work for you--

:)

D.

So glad you posted this! My first batch of rejuvelac was like liquid smoke,with a mild lemony taste. I wasn't 100% sure it was safe to eat with such a weird smell,so I ended up tossing it in the trash.
The second batch turned out super lemony,without a hint of smokiness...and I followed the exact same recipe.Maybe the weather is a factor?


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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My Zoetrope wrote:
Can we talk about what brand of carageenan everyone is using? And does yours smell really bad? I found irish moss powder at a natural food store and this stuff STINKS. Like, beyond fishy. Rotten fish or something. It makes me retch anytime I get a whiff of it, so I was a bit apprehensive putting it into the cheeses, but I did anyways. I tried the monterey jack, and the smell didn't go away even after cooking. I had to throw it out, because the whole batch just tasted like it smelled. It faired a bit better in the air-dried camembert, but there are more things in that to cover up the flavor. The fresh mozzarella is only tolerable if I put lots of other things on it/around it. I know that the prob. is the irish moss powder, because everything tastes fine before I add that in, so I obviously need to get a different carageenan...


I started off using some from molecularrecipes.com, then bought the Willpowder. The cheese I made with the willpowder was my first real fail. It still hasn't set up properly, is gritty, and I can still taste a hint of funk. It's cheddar, so that's saying something. It smelled/tasted kind of like chlorinated fish...I tried to cook it with beer and it wouldn't even dissolve in pure liquid, whereas the MR brand gelled on contact and has no smell.

If yours is funky, I would stop using it. I ordered a 1 lb from MR that should be here Tuesday and I'll report back on it. Since the first batch I got from worked great, I don't see why this one would be any different.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:40 pm 
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bekki wrote:
My Zoetrope wrote:
Can we talk about what brand of carageenan everyone is using? And does yours smell really bad? I found irish moss powder at a natural food store and this stuff STINKS. Like, beyond fishy. Rotten fish or something. It makes me retch anytime I get a whiff of it, so I was a bit apprehensive putting it into the cheeses, but I did anyways. I tried the monterey jack, and the smell didn't go away even after cooking. I had to throw it out, because the whole batch just tasted like it smelled. It faired a bit better in the air-dried camembert, but there are more things in that to cover up the flavor. The fresh mozzarella is only tolerable if I put lots of other things on it/around it. I know that the prob. is the irish moss powder, because everything tastes fine before I add that in, so I obviously need to get a different carageenan...


I started off using some from molecularrecipes.com, then bought the Willpowder. The cheese I made with the willpowder was my first real fail. It still hasn't set up properly, is gritty, and I can still taste a hint of funk. It's cheddar, so that's saying something. It smelled/tasted kind of like chlorinated fish...I tried to cook it with beer and it wouldn't even dissolve in pure liquid, whereas the MR brand gelled on contact and has no smell.

If yours is funky, I would stop using it. I ordered a 1 lb from MR that should be here Tuesday and I'll report back on it. Since the first batch I got from worked great, I don't see why this one would be any different.


i got mine from the modernist kitchen - just 2 oz. and there was absolutely no smell and it worked great.


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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:15 am 
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I am going to get all my baking done tonight, so I can get my oven cool, and keep my things in there. My upstairs neighbours CONSTANTLY turn up the heat so I can't really control the temperature in my basement apartment. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Artisan Vegan Cheese
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:49 am 
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Wow, the hard Gruyere is SO good! Better than I had expected. I'm going to put half in the freezer so we don't eat it all too fast.

I seem to be having problems with the yogurt based cheeses (except for the Parmesan) growing mold, though. The Brie, Cheddar and Gruyere are holding up fabulously, but I just had to throw away the Provolone and Swiss before even tasting them, which is really too bad. Not sure what's going wrong with those. I think others have had luck with them.


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