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 Post subject: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:21 am 
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http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/20 ... ef=general

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:50 am 
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So twitchy after reading that. His characterization of type 2 diabetes as "chronic," "environmental," and caused by an overwhelming diet of junk food and soda is off-base and stereotypical. Type 1 diabetes is not "from birth". It is also "chronic" and "environmental." And type 2 diabetes is more strongly heritable than type 1. And it's way way too soon to say exactly what is causing the insulin deficiency/resistance in Alzheimer's Disease. Twitch. Twitch.


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:58 am 
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I had never heard before that Alzheimer's had any kind of link to insulin resistance before, so that was news to me. But yeah, I thought Bittman might have been a little quick to blame Alzheimer's on SAD.

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:14 pm 
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The idea's been around for almost ten years. But it's definitely in the beginning stages and not something doctors are using for treatment yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:54 pm 
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What’s new is the thought that while diabetes doesn’t “cause” Alzheimer’s, they have the same root: an over consumption of those “foods” that mess with insulin’s many roles. (Genetics have an effect on susceptibility, as they appear to with all environmental diseases.)

The link between diet and dementia negates our notion of Alzheimer’s as a condition that befalls us by chance. Adopting a sane diet, a diet contrary to the standard American diet (which I like to refer to as SAD), would appear to give you a far better shot at avoiding diabetes in all of its forms, along with its dreaded complications.


This statement seems so irresponsible. There are loads of people (like the entire paternal side of my mom's family who were farmers in the early 20th century) who develop Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia and didn't consume the SAD.

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:01 pm 
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couroupita wrote:
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What’s new is the thought that while diabetes doesn’t “cause” Alzheimer’s, they have the same root: an over consumption of those “foods” that mess with insulin’s many roles. (Genetics have an effect on susceptibility, as they appear to with all environmental diseases.)

The link between diet and dementia negates our notion of Alzheimer’s as a condition that befalls us by chance. Adopting a sane diet, a diet contrary to the standard American diet (which I like to refer to as SAD), would appear to give you a far better shot at avoiding diabetes in all of its forms, along with its dreaded complications.


This statement seems so irresponsible. There are loads of people (like the entire paternal side of my mom's family who were farmers in the early 20th century) who develop Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia and didn't consume the SAD.

The thing that gets me (or one of many, apparently,) is not recognizing that one of the risk factors for developing type 2 diabetes is age. As you get older, your body doesn't do as good a job at metabolizing regulating your blood sugar. And what you eat has nothing to do with it. Not to mention risk factors like race and ethnicity. It's just grossly unfair to shift and say, it's all your fault now!


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:06 pm 
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I'm being such a cranky pants. The actual study is fantastic news. Alzheimer's disease is terrible, and the fact that we might be able to treat it with medications we already have and know are safe is fantastic and will speed things up.


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Yeah, I'm not trying to be negative about the research! I just really disliked the tone of the article and how Pollan, who has such a huge following and influence, has 1) co-opted the results of a few studies so he can rail against the SAD again, 2) given people a false sense of security that avoiding junk food is going to save them from various hereditary diseases when the science just isn't there yet, 3) forgetting that correlation doesn't imply causation. There's too much talk of food as a panacea.

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:35 pm 
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(It's Bittman and not Pollan)

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:07 pm 
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Oh my. Bittman needs to stay a little closer to his area of expertise...


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:33 pm 
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yeah, this is disappointing to see from him.

i just realized that for all the talk about the standard American diet, i don't really know what it is, other than bad for you. is there a sample daily menu i can look at to see how it compares to the way i eat? how many cookies can i eat per day without facing the wrath of the dreaded SAD?

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:52 am 
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I used to eat the SAD. In the morning I usually had a poptart, or for awhile 2 donuts and a chocolate milk (at least I ate breakfast!). Lunch every day was some sort of fast food since I had a loop hole that meant I could go off campus for lunch. Usually that meant Taco Bell or Wendy's. My mom rarely cooked dinner, so I would eat more fast food or pizza for dinner, or would make myself something easy like kraft macaroni and cheese. I ate little to no vegetables unless they were on a hamburger. I did not exercise.

And the funny thing is I was 20 lbs skinnier. Skinny does not necessarily mean healthy.

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:42 pm 
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i think its fantastic that there are fatter, healthier, and more beautiful vegans! but the people behind these anecdotes are not bittman's target audience. bittman is trying to speak to the hundred of millions who are eating absolutely crepe food and living grossly inactive lives. my grandmother ate an absolutely horrible diet for most of her life and is now dying from very late stage alzheimers. i have no idea whether a better diet would have spared her any of this suffering, but epidemiological DATA suggests that a better diet might spare millions.

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say, it's all your fault now!

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:41 pm 
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It seems pretty clear to me that he's placing the onus on personal responsibility to avoid Alzeheimer's, going beyond what the research so far suggests.

Quote:
The good news is that laying off soda, doughnuts, processed meats and fries could allow you to keep your mind intact until your body fails you.


Quote:
The link between diet and dementia negates our notion of Alzheimer’s as a condition that befalls us by chance. Adopting a sane diet, a diet contrary to the standard American diet (which I like to refer to as SAD), would appear to give you a far better shot at avoiding diabetes in all of its forms, along with its dreaded complications.


The research so far says nothing about diet recommendations. There's evidence that medicating with insulin improves brain function (in a small sample of humans), and that rats who have been impaired so they can't produce insulin also have impaired cognitive function. And in worms, a gene has been found that's related to AD and affects insulin pathways.

Older people with type 2 diabetes (which we know a lot more about than the Alzheimer's-diabetes connection right now) are much less likely to be obese and much more likely to have failing insulin production (not enough insulin versus an inability to use insulin). It's also unclear whether people suffering from AD have insufficient insulin throughout their bodies or specifically in their brains. There's no way of knowing at this moment what is causing the lack of insulin in brains of people with AD. Making dietary recommendations at this point is just a way for Bittman to use this preliminary research to bolster his long-running argument that we're all sick because of "soda, doughnuts, processed meats and fries," which he implies are staples of the Standard American Diet.

Not at all related, but "brain diabetes" is a much cooler name than Alzheimer's disease.


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:14 pm 
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mollyjade wrote:
The research so far says nothing about diet recommendations.


http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.asp ... eid=184383
see also previous studies from same lab.

http://alzheimersweekly.com/content/can ... alzheimers
tanzi became a vegetarian because he became convinced that there is a correlation between alzheimers and meat consumption.


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:25 pm 
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"could allow"
"would appear to give you a far better shot"

is not the same as:

"say its your fault now"


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:27 pm 
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I'll be more clear. There is evidence that diet plays a role in Alzheimer's disease, but not in the research Bittman is discussing. In general, there are negative ties with nitrates (often in meat) and positive ties with Mediterranean diet, but that's not what Bittman is discussing either. He's discussing articles that show a connection between AD and insufficient insulin in the brain. And then he makes a leap to soda and junk food that isn't supported by the research.


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Quote:
And then he makes a leap to soda and junk food that isn't supported by the research.


Did you even bother to read the recent manuscript Bittman linked to?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22810099

When this new data is viewed in the context of the established literature it argues that a "junk food" diet is linked to MCI.

A recent review:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21539488

Research on the link between diet and dementia increasingly mirror findings for diabetes. I think its conceivable that a vegan diet will prove to decrease risk for MCI, just as it does for metabolic syndromes.


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Dr. Neal Barnard has just written a book about brain health and the veg diet.

Quote:
Power Foods for the Brain: An Effective 3-Step Plan to Protect Your Mind and Strengthen Your Memory

Could that glass of milk affect your memory? Is that aluminum can increasing your risk for Alzheimer's disease? Can a banana be a brain booster? Everyone knows that good nutrition supports your overall health, but did you know that certain foods can protect your brain and optimize its function?

In POWER FOODS FOR THE BRAIN, Dr. Neal Barnard has gathered the most important research and studies to deliver a program that can boost brain health, reducing the risk of Alzheimer's disease, stroke, and other less serious malfunctions, including low energy, poor sleep patterns, irritability, and lack of focus.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Foods-Brain-Effective-Strengthen/dp/1455512192/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0

It's not coming out until next February, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:48 pm 
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veggiesue wrote:
Dr. Neal Barnard has just written a book about brain health and the veg diet.

Quote:
Power Foods for the Brain: An Effective 3-Step Plan to Protect Your Mind and Strengthen Your Memory

Could that glass of milk affect your memory? Is that aluminum can increasing your risk for Alzheimer's disease? Can a banana be a brain booster? Everyone knows that good nutrition supports your overall health, but did you know that certain foods can protect your brain and optimize its function?

In POWER FOODS FOR THE BRAIN, Dr. Neal Barnard has gathered the most important research and studies to deliver a program that can boost brain health, reducing the risk of Alzheimer's disease, stroke, and other less serious malfunctions, including low energy, poor sleep patterns, irritability, and lack of focus.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Foods-Brain-Effective-Strengthen/dp/1455512192/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0

It's not coming out until next February, though.

Ah, so that's what this argument is really about.

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:45 pm 
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Quote:
Ah, so that's what this argument is really about.


The global PCRM conspiracy to undermine vegan bake sales?


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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Bittman is definitely implying that his preferred way of eating as a cure-all for chronic disease. There is a accompanying implication that if you get sick and eat that way or are (god forbid) obese, it's your fault.

I also don't click on links that lead to Dr. Oz.

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Quote:
There is a accompanying implication that if you get sick and eat that way or are (god forbid) obese, it's your fault.

I'll note that you could not provide a quote of this "accompanying implication...that...it's your fault". Also, not an obesity thread.

Quote:
I also don't click on links that lead to Dr. Oz.

Direct link to video:
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/health/201 ... eimers.cnn

Just about everything we know about the molecular genetics/biology of Alzeimer's has Tanzi's imprint on it.

http://www.hms.harvard.edu/dms/neurosci ... /tanzi.php
http://www.massgeneral.org/research/res ... px?id=1402
Quote:
Since 1982, Dr. Tanzi has focused his studies on Alzheimer's disease (AD). He isolated the first familial Alzheimer's disease (FAD) gene, known as the amyloid beta-protein (A4) precursor (APP) in 1987, and another in 1995, called presenilin 2. He also collaborated on the isolation of the second FAD gene, presenilin 1.


Last edited by unethical_vegan on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bittman: "Is Alzheimer's Type 3 Diabetes?"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:34 pm 
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pandacookie wrote:
SE vegan bake sale for life


My friend watched Forks over Knives backwards and developed a visceral dislike of tater tots.


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