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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Semen Strong
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That is so tough - first with respect to how you want to handle your son and second with respect to what you as a couple agree to and what your parenting style is going to be with regard to conflicts as your son becomes more independent.

First, I completely think you are so wise and that you can't waste your parental credibility on imposing veganism, which at the end of the day is always about making a conscious choice about what to support and second, and more important, there has to be a set of parameters to conflicts with your kids that you and your husband agree to, including no fighting in front of the 4 year old, no raised voices and telling your kid that they failed.

Sending tons of good thoughts <3

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Oh and annak, when I was working crazy hours, my husband and I agreed that I would get an hour of decompression time when I got home, where possible, and that helped a lot. I just needed to transition from the extreme stress of work to being home and physically I needed an hour, in front of the tv, doing nothing or having a bath or whatever.

We didn't have kids then, so maybe that isn't doable for you guys though.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:06 pm 
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Tofulish - we did the same thing pre-kids. I still need compression time, but now I don't really get it. We also supposedly get time each week for just-us stuff, but he always schedules his stuff and I never do so I don't get it.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:34 am 
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For us, it is really hard to get decompression time with kids in the picture. My husband is the preferred parent because he is the one who works all day, and when he comes home it is a BIG deal. It's hard to give him space when the kids are actively seeking him out. He always wanted that space, but he would have to shut himself up in a room with kids pounding at the door. It used to be a real problem for us with my husband's old job (Navy), but since he started a civilian job it's like a huge weight is lifted. He comes home from work, and I am daily surprised by his pleasant demeanor. He is so much more engaged with us it has made me realize just how much work stress ruled our life in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:02 pm 
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That's a tough one, erin. I completely agree with you that turning it into a battle with full on parental disapproval isn't going to help at all. Maybe relate it to your husband that possibly kids need to dabble (especially with sweets, that mostly a social thing really) to feel things out and make their veganism their own, like how a lot of adults slowly transition? What we did with Shae is try to not make the non-vegan stuff taboo. A few times in his life something has seemed so amazing he felt left out by not trying it and I told him, just take one bite if you want to, it's up to you. In the grand scheme of things, you are doing so much for the animals by being vegan and it isn't going to hurt anyone if you eat a piece of nonvegan candy. I tell him that most likely his tastes will prefer something vegan anyway or maybe he'll want me to make him a vegan version of it. He never went past that one bite and thought it was all overrated and felt better afterwards, instead of feeling deprived. I don't think it helps anything for kids to suffer and maybe end up resenting veganism over little things like candy. It sounds like you are giving H the room he needs to make his own choices which may very well end up coming back to full-fledged veganism. Hope you guys are able to find a plan that works for all of you and maybe makes your husband feel like he's doing something to lead H back without forcing it?

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:33 pm 
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I love your approach Kelly!

A vegan friend of mine has a vegan from birth 14 year old, and she says the same thing - empower their choices to be vegan (she takes her kid to at least one sanctuary in the summer and also makes sure her daughter has the nicest lunches, so she isn't tempted by the NV stuff as much) but don't make it seem like a huge deal if she chooses to try NV stuff every once and awhile. At the end of the day, its all about choosing and being bullied into being vegan isn't going to work long term. It would be great if your husband could model compassion so that H is able to show it to the animals.

I love being able to learn from you awesome vegan mamas! Erin, I know things are going to work out with H and your husband, so please do share how you negotiate this, because I know its a conflict most of us are going to face at some time.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
I love being able to learn from you awesome vegan mamas! Erin, I know things are going to work out with H and your husband, so please do share how you negotiate this, because I know its a conflict most of us are going to face at some time.


Tofulish - Thank you for that positive comment. Really warmed my heart. Thank you for reminding me that things will work out.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:32 am 
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Erin, I think your approach is great (Kelly's too)... i didn't ever make FC "have to be vegan" exactly because of what you said- i have other battles to fight. Sometimes she identifies as a vegan, sometimes not. I try not to make a big deal about it (my spouse is not vegan so my situation is a bit different).
I do feel very sad about the shaming, though. Have you and your spouse talked about how you're going to deal with other transgressions in the future?
I think that the shaming thing is such a minefield. I'm thinking especially about a religious community my husband used to participate in that would have used blaming and shaming of "backsliding children" as their #1 tool- and in the end, the kids just GTFO'd as soon as they could- and who the hell would blame them?! I shudder to remember them, these poor kids were just stabbed in the back by their community who really, truly didn't practice what they preached.
Maybe if he could realize that the care and compassion and sympathy that he's ultimately hoping to cultivate in your child is best taught by modeling that same care, compassion and sympathy to the kid, he might lighten up a little.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:29 pm 
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ismloveyoubobbybrown wrote:
It used to be a real problem for us with my husband's old job (Navy), but since he started a civilian job it's like a huge weight is lifted. He comes home from work, and I am daily surprised by his pleasant demeanor. He is so much more engaged with us it has made me realize just how much work stress ruled our life in the past.



Hahhahaha heh. Heh. The one saving grace of the XO tour is that it's really short, so at least a year and a half from now it'll be over, theoretically. But it feels like he's held responsible for everything and given the means to fix none of it. Whee. Trying to give him a little more space when he gets home i something I should be more conscientious about. It's hard, though, because we already have so little time together.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Semen Strong
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I totally hear you annak! Its so hard now, because my husband works 6 days a week and +--generally doesn't c
ome home until L is in bed. And so when he is home, I get excited thinking I am going to get a bit of a break, even if its just him playing with L while I clean or cook or do something else that I can't do with a baby clinging to my leg and yelling if I leave her alone. But of course, he wants to just relax alone and check email or do any of the things I'd love to do if I had an hour to myself to unwind.

I think we are in the same position (yours is harder though) and I just wish we could have a schedule that I could rely on to know that on X day, I'd get a break, instead of always having to accept that I will get my needs met after everyone else in the family gets theirs met.

I am bitter at the moment that after giving me so much shiitake about eating dinner together because he had so much work to do, then bisqueing at me because the cat knocked a papertowel holder over that cracked a floor tile in the kitchen, he is now on the phone to his friend, coaching him about his relationship.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:11 am 
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I am so tired of my husband being so negative.

Today Leela recognized her own name signed, and my husband's only comment was "I've been asking you to cut her hair for 5 months, she looks terrible. "

I hate living like this.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:11 am 
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Tofulish, that is so cool about leela! It's amazing to see these kinds if development and I cannot believe she is almost a year! I am so sorry about Brett. This whole parenting thing is so tough.

I am having a hard time asking for what I need, it sucks. I think I am having such a hard time because I don't think I will get it so I am scared to ask. I know I definitely will not get anything unless I ask, but it might feel worse to ask and not get it.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:49 am 
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Semen Strong
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First, I think its really telling that we have bad times if I haven't slept. L went to sleep exhausted at 7pm (I stayed up and was on the internet till 10) and woke at 2 and then again at 4 was up until 6 am.

Second, I so hear you. We just had a huge fight about me needing him to acknowledge the little victories and not always harp on the things that aren't getting done (like her haircut), which upset Leela so badly that she didn't want to go near her Dad. It really brought home to us how bad our fights are so we were superloving to her and we had a really long conversation about how while we are both excellent co-parents, we are not being good partners. And we had a recommitment conversation getting through all the obstacles with us agreeing that we want to be partners and to be gentle with one another, because we come from histories with a lot of abuse and it is so easy to get retriggered and be in pain from that. Blahblahblah need to use I statements, blahblahblah try to be present to one another, blahblahblah respect and love. For nearly 2 hours. And after that huge conversation, where I thought we had some stuff handled, he just got incredibly pissed at me for asking him to pick stuff up while he watched her (and I made lunch), and left. I don't even know why I bother sometimes.

And that is the part that is so tough - you both want to make it work, you both agree to stuff in therapy, but when you're at home, everything disappears and it all becomes so positional. And given that you both want it to be fixed, you are all like GOD WHY ISN"T THIS FIXED NOW WE JUST TALKED ABOUT IT ALL. But the truth is all those patterns are really hard, so you just have to work on them slowly. Keep asking, keep looking, and hopefully one day they get less loud and less tight. At least for me, those patterns would be there with anyone, so I might as well just handle them now :)

I just really don't know how to be in a great relationship, even though I want that more than anything, in part because I want to model that for L.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:37 am 
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Good luck sorting it all out, Tlish. You're definitely not the only one who has these kinds of arguments. (For the haircut, if you want to get her one, have you heard of Pigtails & Crewcuts? I just learned about them a few weeks ago and while I haven't gone to one yet, it sounds like a good solution; my salon is DEFINITELY not toddler-friendly and I wasn't sure where to take her. They have special chairs for kids and are trained to deal with that, and it's walk-in only. Granted, I think Leela's hair is awesome and doesn't need cutting)

Husband is back and we had the initial few days of happiness followed by lots of little quarrels as I have to learn to share the house again. There continues to be the frustration that he's gone a lot (including the last few weeks) and so when he's back he doesn't want to say no to V at all, and right now she needs a lot of redirection because if given the choice she'd cheerfully sit around smashing dishes and grinding crackers into the couch. Still tired of being The Mean One. Hoping it settles down a bit...


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Oi. K decided to take Freya (who's just getting over a cold) for a walk because she was clinging to me like mad while I was trying to cook dinner (on the stove). Could he try taking her upstairs? No. They've been gone 45 minutes. In the drizzle. I understand it's hard work to look after her. I do it every forking day. 20 minutes to cook dinner for all of us (which is now cold, btw) without having Freya cry at my feet sadly because she wants to be held, when her father is available to play with her....not to much to ask.

Hey..here they are now.. I think she is probably asleep. 1/2 hour before bedtime, in her regular clothes and old nappy with no dinner and no boobs. Freaking hurrah.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:10 pm 
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OMG, that has totally happened to me. Mr Crabby would be watching the boys while I cook dinner and then when it's dinner time, he would be all, "Uh oh. Raygold is asleep. Not sure when that happened" Which meant Raygold woke up 20-40 minutes later and didn't fall asleep again until 3+ hours after his bedtime.

Fortunately that doesn't happen any more. Phew.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:10 am 
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Had a talk-it-out later. Doing better.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:55 am 
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GAH! I feel your pain.

My downtime is spent cooking and cleaning. And sometimes if my husband isn't around, I make dishes that require no labor - I made cabbage thoran, dal and rice. All dishes that basically cook themselves once you put them in the pot. Of course he didn't like it. Didn't even try a bite. Because he *knows* he hates cabbage. I make cabbage because it is the cheapest green on the planet and if you cook it right it is sweet and yummy. But for him its always waterlogged and limp - because his mom boiled hers for over an hour.

At this point, he is way pickier than my toddler, who was shoving lentils into her face with her fists. My girl <3

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:05 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Tofulish wrote:
I made cabbage thoran, dal and rice.

OMFG, I know what I am making tonight!!! What's your coconut to cabbage ratio?

ETA: My husband's mum also boiled veggies to within an inch of their lives, so Mr Crabby is always accusing me of serving crunchy carrots, even when I boil them for ages. ;p He's gotten better about green beans, though...After 13 years. ;p

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:38 am 
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Tofulish, I think I am a little in love with you right now because cabbage thoran is delicious and doesn't hit any of my screw-you-and-starve-to-death-sucker morning sickness buttons. (Seriously, I would be emaciated if it weren't for Indian and Chinese food in the first trimester.)

Theonly thing is, it's taking forever for my frickin' chana dal (I'm out of red split lentils) to cook and I'm starving!! ;p

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Oh, we cooked both of those things tonight! Red lentils for dinner tonight, chana dal cooked for tomorrows Indian feast. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:26 pm 
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I use about 1 cup of coconut shreds and 4 cups of shredded cabbage (TJ's does a cheap packet of shredded cabbage). I use this recipe, just without the green chilies.
http://giniann.wordpress.com/2006/03/07 ... h-coconut/

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:19 am 
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I am going to make that dish, tofulish, it looks awesome!

Nate and I did talk and he was really receptive. Mostly it comes down to this, I am tired of living in the Bay Area where it is so expensive. W have gone back and forth a out moving, but of course it is up to him to get the new job so I have been feeling like I can't say anything. He mostly agrees with me although I think he is still a bit reluctant to leave California. Part of our problem is that we have an expensive lifestyle and we I've somewhere expensive so money always seems tight despite Nate making a decent salary. I get resentful when he spends a bunch of money on bike stuff so then I feel like I should be able to get whatever I want since my stuff costs so much less. It's petty and ridiculous. Anyway, we have more to discus, but I feel like we are heading in the same direction, so that is good!


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:54 am 
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Are you still considering the UK lb? We have the same discussion lately too. Me working only a teeny bit means our disposable income is nil. We're pretty set on moving before Freya is school age here. (full time at age 4!) but the actually doing it is hard.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:16 am 
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i am tempted to make a poll and see how many of us have made cabbage thoran since Tlish mentioned it. I am nomming on some right now!

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