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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:15 am 
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Semen Strong
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Its so good! And so easy!

I think of nagging as outsourced forgetting. My husband is pissed at me for nagging him and I just think that Iam asking, which I wouldn't have to if you would do what you said you would reliably so I don't have to think about it. Trust me, it is no fun for me to have to remember all the stuff I need you to do either. He is always on top of me, micromanaging me about stuff I need to do for Leela, but he routinely forgets to feed the animals, doesn't clean the litter box etc. Its really annoying.

Anyone have any tips and tricks on how to manage this?

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:55 am 
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Refinnej, the UK is out unless some job pops up, but ultimately unless he found something really awesome and something they would import us for, it wnt happen. I wish, it would be really cool to live abroad for a while. We are mostly looking at the PNW. Most likely Seattle, Portland or Bend. Nate was offered a really awesome job in Montana a few weeks ago but there was a clause in his contract and he couldn't take it. If the right opportunity came up we would move anywhere, but if we are choosing it will most likely be Seattle, lots of opportunity there. We love Portland but he doesn't have the same earning potential there as Seattle. What I kind of want (don't hold me to this) is to move to Michigan. It will never happen, but I already found the house I want to buy. It is so cheap here and we could own it within 15 years, I mean mortgage paid off. That is really attractive to me, but never going to happen.

Grey and I have been in Michigan for 5 weeks and we leave to go to DC on Friday for another week. It is hard being away from Nate and the cats but the upside is that it has made us both realize what we need and now how we can get there. Nate really misses us and I think he is finally realizing that he is super lonely without us and if the only way I get help is to be in Michigan, it just isn't going to work in California. Nate and I hadn't been on a date in 11 months until he came to Michigan a couple weeks ago. That is not ok!


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:02 am 
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Drinks Wild Tofurkey
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Oh and tofulish, I start all my nagging with, "I don't mean to be a nag, but" I find that somehow acknowledging that I am nagging makes it kind of better. When Nate gets frustrated with my nagging I remind him that he could instead do whatever it is I am nagging him about and report back to me so I will stop nagging. Sounds like what you are doing already. The other thing I do is email Nate a list of things to do, it's harder though when it is normal things like feed cats, I mean, you don't want to email Brett everyday to feed the cats. My other (really crappy) tactic is that I will nag, he doesn't do it, then I do it and am mean to him.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Oi, I've been thinking lots about MI/Chicago too. We've talked a lot about Norway, but I think how nice it would be to ne near my sisters. When I think about baby #2, I'm sure my mental health and our marriage would be helped by having family nearby.

I too often preface a naggish request to soften it. I'm on the receiving end too sometimes though so I think we both tend not to mind mild nagging


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Semen Strong
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You know what sucks? My husband has this super-sweet tone with Leela that never is applied to me any more. And we talked about it and he said he is always on his guard near me, so that is why his first reaction is to snap at me or yell. He used to be really good with me and now he isn't any longer and it makes me sad.

I married him in part because I have a quick temper and he always was able to talk me down and calm me. And now, when I am upset, I have learned to move on so fast, and he is the one holding onto it, keeping the fight going. I said one thing that set him off, in part because I am really worried I might have food poisoning, and he is still fighting with me about it.

I always wonder when you know the relationship is just beyond repair. I feel like we've been a "work in progress" for years now.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Ugh, {{{tofulish}}}

I have felt like that at moments of my relationship with Mr. A, but we work on it and we get over the hump. At the end of the day, we each know that the other is 100% there for us and will sacrifice a lot to make life work for the other. There are a few issues for us that are just long-term problems and we keep having to work at them over and over and over again and once we get over a hump and things feel nicer, the issue often crops up again just as badly - some things don't necessarily change, but we at least get why we have the problem and we're able to have the fight differently the next time.

I highly recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Communication-Mir ... or+couples and this book: http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles- ... riage+work

They were both helpful for us and I've recommended them to couples I've counseled with good results.

I also think of nagging as outsourced forgetting :) I also remind us of stuff out loud all the time, but the bad part of that is that Mr. A always hears me say "We need to" as "You need to," even though I often/almost always am the one to fulfill the "we need to." But it really is a fork load of work to have to remember somebody else's chores. I feel like 80% of my "housework" is really mental load - always stressed trying to remember what everybody is supposed to do and reminding Mr. A to do his part. I think setting up separate spheres of responsibility and then forgetting about everything that isn't yours is a good idea, but it fails because (mostly) women are pretty indoctrinated into the "you must have mental control over the household all the time" frame of mind and what if your partner forgets his/her jobs and it leads to really bad stuff (like animals not being fed).


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Semen Strong
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Oh thanks! I dated someone who insisted we read the Gottman book together, so we'd be on the same page when we got married. Hahahaha.

I really hear you on the "outsourced remembering" of all the chores. Its so annoying to know that if I don't remember there is a good chance of it not getting done and that if I remind him, there will be pissyness. And in fairness, I don't ever remember the garbage or car related chores - he does all of those.

One constant source of tension that I am just going to stop paying attention to is heat and electricity. I feel often that he doesn't realize that if we save energy (turn off the computer and turn down the heat) we are really saving money. So then I come home and no one is home, the heat is cranked up to 70 and the computer is on and no one has been home for hours and it gets so upsetting to me but his feeling is that these amounts are so small that they are irrelevant, which might be true. I just feel like we need to build trust and to do that I need to find things that I can accept and find peace around.

My rant for today is that I came home and the cat had thrown my sunglasses on the floor and someone heavy enough to shatter them had stepped on them and left sharp plastic shards all over the floor. I don't care about the glasses, but I do worry about bits of plastic like that. I think I got everything but now I'm freaking that maybe I missed one and she ate it. And I know if I say anything he'll say he didn't break it and that its the damned cat's fault for knocking it over. And of course if something bad ends up happening, it'll be my fault for not watching her closer and letting her get something off the floor.

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But on a cold winter night, when the wind whispers through the trees and a bright, white moon hangs heavy in the air, you might hear a sad cry like someone thinking he knows what's best for you, and that'll be the white man a-passin' you by. just mumbles


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:37 pm 
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Re: chores - T-lish, maybe you can help him find a way to remember that wouldn't directly involve you? If he's into technology, maybe an automatic reminder on his phone or computer would help. You can't really yell at a phone for nagging. (This is like the modern day version of the chore chart/calendar, which I don't use because I find them to easy to ignore!)

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Maybe a Nest would be a good investment for you guys? They're $$$, but if it saves money in the long run, might be worth it..

My husband is generally great. Wonderful. But one thing that is frustrating about marriage is that you have to bear the consequences of someone else's forgetfulness. I know it goes both ways, but I feel like..I don't want to nag you to do some stupid thing you should know how to do by the time you're 6, like take out contacts or set an alarm clock before you go to bed, but if I don't, I'm the one who gets yelled at and has to spend my sunday taking you to the emergency room because you end up with an eye infection, or I'm the one who has to endure you yelling and swearing and has to drive you to and from work because there's not time to bike, and during the whole time you're being pissy and sighing at the traffic, because you're running late (but can't be bothered to, say, take a quicker shower). And yes I could say no to doing these things, but in the end getting him in trouble at work would mean him having to spend even more time there, which would only get me less help at home.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:46 pm 
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The Real Hamburger Helper
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What is a nest?


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Semen Strong
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I have no idea what a Nest is either!

I put things in our shared calendar and guess who never checks it?

I agree AK - I bear the consequences of someone else's inattention. He could take five minutes to take off shoes or pick up stuff after it breaks, or he could just leave it and trust that I am going to watch her like a hawk for the remaining 24 hours. And of course one costs him effort and one doesn't.

I find that Brett is happy to do anything I ask - he'll do diaper laundry, he'll take her and watch her, he'll vacuum or go shopping or make dinner. As long as its a favor and he isn't being held to account for something he agreed to. So I have no scheduled "off time" despite the fact that our therapist said we needed to do that. He completely refuses to give me a set block of time that I am entitled to have alone time. But he will take her any time he is around, and he thinks that is equivalent. But really what it leaves me with is him always doing me a favor on his terms, at short notice, so I can't really make plans and go out. We talked about it the other day, and he said I needed to be more aggressive about getting my time alone (because I haven't had time alone since before Labor Day). So I asked him to take her, he did, but then he got really pissy afterwards because he missed the opportunity to work, and we really do need the money. I still haven't cut my hair since February, because every time I want to go, he can't take her. His suggestion is that I take her along, but seriously where is the relaxation in that?

I think these are all the typical adjustment issues - We used to function well taking care of our own pieces of the household, but now there is a third person who can't manage her own chores and the tasks she generates, so someone has to pick those up, and one of us doesn't want to do all of them. As an example, I gave him one task that was his and I wasn't going to police - giving her her vitamin drops. She hates it and I mentioned that there is a formula she might prefer and I'll get those at the next appt. He decided that meant that he didn't have to give her drops again. Which I found out after 2 weeks. And of course its my fault for not getting the new drops, not his for unilaterally deciding that the fact that there were other drops out there in the universe that she might like better, meant he no longer had to do the one unpleasant Leela related task he has to do.

But if you ask him, he'll say he's already doing more than most men and that I am not grateful for all he does do. And yes, he does the laundry etc and will watch her if I need it in the morning (before his schedule gets crazy). I think he thinks in every other household but ours, the man works and the SAHM does everything in the house and watches the kid(s) and is just grateful that someone is supporting them. I think he can't understand me not being able to handle one small kid, when other mothers manage two or more.

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But on a cold winter night, when the wind whispers through the trees and a bright, white moon hangs heavy in the air, you might hear a sad cry like someone thinking he knows what's best for you, and that'll be the white man a-passin' you by. just mumbles


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Someone here posted about the idea that during the day, the SAHP's job is to take care of the kid, house, etc. but that when the workday is over, the responsibility lies on both parents. This has been helpful for me in trying to rid myself of some of that feeling that I need to be the one to do all the house stuff. We're getting in a groove a bit just now, after nearly a year!


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Semen Strong
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I loved that too. The only issue with that, is that when you have your own business the day never ends. My husband does work really hard - he is out lifting furniture all day and at night is working on the computer trying to figure out how to grow his business.

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But on a cold winter night, when the wind whispers through the trees and a bright, white moon hangs heavy in the air, you might hear a sad cry like someone thinking he knows what's best for you, and that'll be the white man a-passin' you by. just mumbles


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Semen Strong
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And we are having a giant fight over the fact that I dared to mention the broken glasses, because I should know better that he is far more protective of her than I am, so he would NEVER have left broken glass and it is insulting that I could even think that.

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But on a cold winter night, when the wind whispers through the trees and a bright, white moon hangs heavy in the air, you might hear a sad cry like someone thinking he knows what's best for you, and that'll be the white man a-passin' you by. just mumbles


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:27 pm 
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refinnej wrote:
Someone here posted about the idea that during the day, the SAHP's job is to take care of the kid, house, etc. but that when the workday is over, the responsibility lies on both parents. This has been helpful for me in trying to rid myself of some of that feeling that I need to be the one to do all the house stuff. We're getting in a groove a bit just now, after nearly a year!


This sounds good, but my partner is the SAHP and he doesn't lift a finger to do household chores all day. Everyday I come home and get angry when I open the door to our pig stye. I literally had no clean surface on which to sit to nurse the baby when I got home. No place to sit! I can't be responsible for that level of chaos after a long day working really hard. My workplace has been super stressful lately and I'm juggling so many balls trying to keep up without bringing my work home or staying after hours (loosing that battle) so I can spend time with babynut. I can't be in charge of everything at home, too.

We keep fighting about it, I keep saying, "why are you choosing to have this argument again? Why don't you start taking responsibility for x,y,z?" And nothing is changing.

Sorry to jump in and just complain about my situation! Tofulish, you aren't the only one arguing, that's for sure.

And if a Nest would fix my problems I'd buy it no matter what the cost. What is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Butternut, its really good to know we're not alone! I started this thread because I think that co-parenting and cohabiting and partnership is really hard and I wanted a place we can all go to vent but also know we're not alone and maybe get some advice too. Sometimes another person's view is helpful and can help shift perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:12 pm 
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It's a fancy thermostat:

http://www.nest.com


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:07 am 
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Yikes Butternut, that's insane! I struggle with keeping the house clean, but there's a limit. I was thinking about you yesterday too ..did everything go ok with surgery?


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:52 am 
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Thanks for thinking of me, but I'm not the one having surgery. I think it was bap? I hope she is okay.

The hubs and I had (another) long talk about the cleaning and maybe he will take it to heart this time? It's hard to be hopeful. And annek, its so true how you have to suffer the natural consequences with your partner when they are being a bonehead. Example: my partner makes breakfast for us. Not hard, he makes oatmeal over night in the slow cooker and it lasts for a few days. If I don't remind him to cook it again, I'm the one on my way to work in the morning with nothing to eat. He doesn't have to remind me about the stuff I'm responsible for. And now I'm the petty weirdo freaking out about oatmeal.


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:59 am 
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Ah der. Hope you're doing well too, heh, but yeah I hope all has gone well for bap.

Small stuff always seems to be the worst. I swear shower hair sucks every bit of pacifism out of me


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:20 am 
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Semen Strong
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Butternut wrote:
And now I'm the petty weirdo freaking out about oatmeal.


Hah! I feel your pain, I really do. Every night my husband is supposed to let out the dog for one last pee, or else there is a risk of dog pee on the floor in the dining room. I try not to leave L alone while she sleeps. So every night, I have to remind my husband to let the dog out. And half the time he has fallen asleep, so I have to go and let the dog out while listening for Leela. How hard is it to just run downstairs before you go to bed and let him out one last time?

And weirdly enough, my husband is never the one who finds the cat puke or dog pee. Its always me. Some days I suspect that he finds it and just keeps on moving.

That said, when I focus on the good - he is really sweet with Leela, he does help a lot and I find him adorable - its hard to be really mad at him. Well, today any way :)

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:50 am 
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Hahaha just found a giant pile of dogshit in dining room!

Also, if you tell me that you're washing the dishes for me, could you actually wash them instead of putting them in the sink filled with about a gallon of water when all they need is a scrub and rinse?

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But on a cold winter night, when the wind whispers through the trees and a bright, white moon hangs heavy in the air, you might hear a sad cry like someone thinking he knows what's best for you, and that'll be the white man a-passin' you by. just mumbles


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:57 am 
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Butternut wrote:
Thanks for thinking of me, but I'm not the one having surgery. I think it was bap? I hope she is okay.


Thanks guys, it was me. It went well, but now my right boob is producing milk the color of strawberry milk, which is totally grossing me out!

I am right there with everyone with being the one who has to constantly remember everything. I feel like my brain is going a mile a minute all the time!


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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:53 am 
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refinnej wrote:
Someone here posted about the idea that during the day, the SAHP's job is to take care of the kid, house, etc. but that when the workday is over, the responsibility lies on both parents. This has been helpful for me in trying to rid myself of some of that feeling that I need to be the one to do all the house stuff. We're getting in a groove a bit just now, after nearly a year!

My husband works from home (on and off throughout the day/week-- the schedule varies on external factors and he doesn't get weekends off (although he usually doesn't have a lot of work Mondays and Tuesdays)) and is also going to OU, so most of the time, taking care of the kids is on me, no matter what, unless I am cooking (he can't always watch the kids when I make meals, but he usually can). We tried to have the whole, "I get an hour to myself" every day, but that didn't work out because it was cutting into my cooking time and I still didn't get any time to myself on weekends. My solution was to start putting the kids to bed at 7pm.* Once Raygold actually started sleeping, this worked out really, really well (especially because Mr Crabby is usually available to help get Beety to sleep at this time, so that cuts my work in half) and now I have the evenings to myself for exercise and knitting and reading and writing and it's verrrrry nice. Of course, now that I'm pregnant, I usually fall asleep getting Raygold to sleep, but I should get a little energy back in the second trimester. ;D

I know that a 7pm bedtime might not work for everyone, but having time to myself is something I really, really struggled with and it's worked out so well.


* I'd heard my SIL did that a few years ago and had always thought it was terrible, but now I totally see why she does it.

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 Post subject: Re: Relationships and Parenting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:49 pm 
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bap wrote:
Butternut wrote:
Thanks for thinking of me, but I'm not the one having surgery. I think it was bap? I hope she is okay.


Thanks guys, it was me. It went well, but now my right boob is producing milk the color of strawberry milk, which is totally grossing me out!

I am right there with everyone with being the one who has to constantly remember everything. I feel like my brain is going a mile a minute all the time!


Good to hear that everything went well!


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