| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:27 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:17 pm 
Offline
Nooch of Earl
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3750
Location: Bella Napoli
With so many toys, books, etc. incorporating zoo, farm, and circus themes, I thought it might be nice to have a respectful thread about whether individual items pass vegan muster. I know that sometimes I'd like a second opinion when trying to decide whether to get/not get something for Vi, or whether to allow her to have a gift she receives.


Violet loves this Touch and Feel series of flash cards. I got her the 'first words' set, and since she loves it so much I thought I might get the other sets eventually, or at least put them on a Christmas wish list for her. But then I ran across this one:

http://www.amazon.com/First-Touch-Feel- ... 02_02_t_lh
Image


Would you get this for your child?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:20 pm 
Offline
Grandfathered In
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 9700
Location: Seattle
I wouldn't.

I don't think it's evil, but it'd be a bummer for me.

Everyone (especially kids!) loves farm animals, but it's pretty depressing, I think.

_________________
Did somebody say Keep on rockin?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:24 pm 
Offline
Nooch of Earl
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3750
Location: Bella Napoli
Here's another one: http://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Price-Litt ... d_sim_b_13

Image

My mother-in-law got her this book. It's a nicely made book, lots of flaps and it talks about numbers, colors, and baby animals, but of course there are all these captive animals. It definitely isn't something I would buy for her, but since it's already bought, do I let her have it and talk about it? Or just hide it? Have any of you had discussions about vegan-appropriate gifts with family?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:46 pm 
Offline
Level 7 Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:15 am
Posts: 1549
Depending on the book or toy, maybe you could pretend the farm is a farm sanctuary. You could tell your child that the animals look so happy because they know they are safe and cared for.

_________________
"One time I meant to send a potential employer a resume, but I accidentally sent them a bucket of puke!

So embarrassing!" -just mumbles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:00 pm 
Offline
Married to the wolfman
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:49 pm
Posts: 6021
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
I'm not bothered by things that depict animals on a farm, unless there's something specifically non-vegan mentioned in correlation. (Like, though we will read it for sure, I am kind of dreading doing Charlotte's Web with the kid and explaining to him that yeah, most pigs on most farms are there because someone's planning on eating them.) To my kid at this age, an animal "on a farm" means a duck or a cow or something that lives in a big red barn somewhere in la la land.

I guess I just feel like we have his whole entire life to talk to him about what happens to most animals on most farms, and it's okay to let him enjoy a book with a picture of animals in it now without getting into the heavy stuff.

(That said, I don't think he actually has any farm books. We have at least 3 zoo-related books I can think of, though.)

_________________
"Hummus; a gentleman's vice." -- Mars

coldandsleepy cooks, THE BLOG!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:19 pm 
Offline
Level 7 Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:30 pm
Posts: 1570
Location: Maine
We have several zoo and farm books. They were all gifts, but I bought Boats by Byron Barton, which shows a fishing boat and nets on one page, because the kid loves boats. At this point I just read the books as is. It's mostly about learning the animals' names and sounds anyway. We can talk about the ethics of animal farming later in life, but I don't really feel I can or should shield him now. I mean, they talk all about farms at his preschool. That stuff is just ubiquitous at this age. And he loves tractors. I'm just going to chill about it for now, while drawing the line at books about slaughterhouses or bacon.*

*I got a bunch of books for 25 cents each at our local library sale, and I felt okay buying a book called My Day that showed a boy's dinner plate labeled corn, potatoes, fried chicken--at first I just skipped over the chicken, but when Walter pointed to it and wanted to know the word I said it was chicken, some people eat chicken, we eat things like tofu and beans instead. I did not, however, buy a counting book that had a close up picture of dead shrimp at the market, because it made me want to vomit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:21 pm 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:58 pm
Posts: 4789
Location: Santa Cruz whoop whoop
We have some books that have farm animals in them, and hm. Something came up involving farm animals that was kind of weird to explain, but now I don't remember.

Content-free posting, hooray.

_________________
"Trolling an internet message board, The Greatest Activism Of All." - pandacookie
Вы такие сексапильные, когда злитесь


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:31 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:13 pm
Posts: 2411
I would read those books. I want my kid to learn the names of animals and all of that. I think that is how people begin to feel compassion for animals.

Yeah mitten, I don't want to look at gross pictures that some people would consider to be food. Besides pictures, I don't buy fake food that looks like meat or cheese. I know a plastic hamburger could be a veggie burger, but I'm just annoyed by it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:31 pm 
Offline
Should Write a Goddam Book Already
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 1056
Location: Willamette Valley, OR
coldandsleepy wrote:
I'm not bothered by things that depict animals on a farm, unless there's something specifically non-vegan mentioned in correlation. (Like, though we will read it for sure, I am kind of dreading doing Charlotte's Web with the kid and explaining to him that yeah, most pigs on most farms are there because someone's planning on eating them.) To my kid at this age, an animal "on a farm" means a duck or a cow or something that lives in a big red barn somewhere in la la land.

I guess I just feel like we have his whole entire life to talk to him about what happens to most animals on most farms, and it's okay to let him enjoy a book with a picture of animals in it now without getting into the heavy stuff.

(That said, I don't think he actually has any farm books. We have at least 3 zoo-related books I can think of, though.)


This. I respect those who feel differently, however. Most of the farm-related books my daughter has are very
plain at this point, though, like just pictures of animals on each page board book type things. (She's almost 3.) She doesn't have anything that I'm aware of that talks about butchering.

So, while I don't have issues with the farm books currently in her possession, I take more issue with some of the other word/picture board books that have "food pages" that include, say, ham sandwiches and swiss cheese and such. I am not okay with her thinking that's food, so when we look at those books I go ahead and tell her what it is and that we don't eat it, because I think honesty in an age-appropriate way is the best way on all sensitive topics. She's still too little to make the connection, I think, between a sweet living animal and the ham on the page of the book, but still. (The books in question were both gifts, btw, and aside from a couple pages the rest of the book is about totally okay stuff... and she loves them... so I'm loath to just throw them away...)

_________________
Glad wrap! ... it's just a nice, friendly name. Like a suffocating, plastic hug. - Erinnerung

http://toocheapforpinenuts.wordpress.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:00 pm 
Offline
Not NOT A Furry

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:00 am
Posts: 513
My situation is maybe a little different in that my DH is an omni. We have agreed that I won't touch/cook/clean up after meat dishes, but DH can eat them, and if the kids want, they can too. So we have to discuss food, and I have to find really respectful ways of explaining my position that don't vilify what their dad does.

So with that, we have farm books and zoo books and all sorts of books. For the most part, they are just about identifying the animals. There is nothing inherent about eating animals because little kids don't know what a farm is. As far as they know it's just a place some animals live, like others live in the jungle, and others live in the desert.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:21 am 
Offline
Attended Chelsea Clinton's Wedding

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:01 am
Posts: 205
Location: Oslo, Norway
My friends daughter was cooking us pretend crepes a couple days ago, and asked me if I wanted strawberries and cheese on mine, so I said only strawberries, I don't eat cheese. And her father started laughing hysterically that even my pretend diet is vegan. DUH. That's how children learn about how different people make different choices. Littlemap has three animal books already, one of which is all domesticated animals. I didn't even consider the non-vegan implications until this thread- he's five weeks old so reading to him means showing him pictures and making sounds at him :).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:06 pm 
Offline
***LIES!!!***
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 3895
I sing "Old MacDonald had a farm sanctuary...." :)

Malka LOOOOOOOOOVES animals and pictures of animals. My running commentary on her books includes letting her know that these animals live on this farm because they have been adopted so they can live happily ever after and most animals are supposed to live wild and free but some animals need protection and help getting food so they need to live on a farm sanctuary and blah blah blah. We supplement with books like Eric Carle's "Panda Bear Panda Bear What do you see?" and his slightly annoying book about male fish who care for fish babies (annoying because the male fish are "babysitting" their young and all the female fish are "Mrs. Fish"). Then Malka goes "woofwoofwoofwoof" and pokes at the pictures. (Most of the animals apparently say "woofwoofwoofwoof" according to Malka, kind of like ASL milk sign means "milk, food, water, let's play with silverware, put me down, pick me up, let me play with your cell phone, and you're pissing me off.")


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:29 pm 
Offline
Married to the wolfman
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:49 pm
Posts: 6021
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Ariann, your post made me remember back when the Emperor said that all animals said meow... I hadn't thought of that phase in a long time, so thanks. Also, woofing fish made me laugh.

We have a Richard Scarry book called At Work that bothers me a bit-- there's a page with a butcher on it and big gross slabs of meat. E and I do talk about it now, just like we talk about meat when we pass by the butcher at the grocery store etc. I don't really love having to talk to him about it, and when he was younger we would just skip that page.

We also have a Richard Scarry book where, I shiitake you not, someone buys a pizza for the firehouse pigs and it has bacon on it. I showed it to solipsistnation and he said "FootFace doesn't have a blog anymore" really sadly.

_________________
"Hummus; a gentleman's vice." -- Mars

coldandsleepy cooks, THE BLOG!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:53 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:16 pm
Posts: 3901
Location: Panama City, Florida
coldandsleepy wrote:

We also have a Richard Scarry book where, I shiitake you not, someone buys a pizza for the firehouse pigs and it has bacon on it. I showed it to solipsistnation and he said "FootFace doesn't have a blog anymore" really sadly.


awes.

_________________
etsy shop: teeny tiny tantrums


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:10 pm 
Offline
Nooch of Earl
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3750
Location: Bella Napoli
Heh, we have a few Richard Scarry books and they are one of the more annoying books vegan-wise because "My First Word Book" (or whatever it's called) has a butcher (he's a pig I think) and there's a grocery store trip that involves a lot of nonvegan food. I'm content to pretend that the spaghetti has soy meatballs on it, but eggs and swiss cheese, what can you do? (Daiya, make a swiss wedge stat please for the vegan babies!!) These were my books when I was younger. I'm pretty careful about what I buy but obviously we get a lot of hand me downs and gifts.

I also dread Saturday in "The Very Hungry Caterpillar," but at least all that nonvegan food makes him sick and he mends his ways?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:30 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:16 pm
Posts: 3901
Location: Panama City, Florida
I don't think you can censor non-vegan things from kids fully because at some point they are going to be really confused. I've always just grazed over obviously non vegan foods in books, etc and if questioned, I'll say "Oh that's an egg but we don't eat that because we're vegan" and move along. I'm a big believer in giving tiny kids the information they ask for, when they are ready for it. This has worked really well for both of my kids. Silas saw a kid eating a hard boiled egg for the first time last week and said "What is that? Is that an egg?", then said "Oh, I don't eat animal foods because I'm vegan" and just went back to playing. He also veganizes his toy food in his kitchen (all hand me downs from an older cousin), he'll say "This bacon is vegan! Vegan bacon is so yummy!". With captive animals, I just would say something like "Oh that monkey is so cute! I bet it would be so much happier living in a jungle instead of that little cage!" and continue on. It's really easy to get into greater detail with kids when they are old enough, if they've heard the basics their whole life, you know?

_________________
etsy shop: teeny tiny tantrums


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:35 pm 
Offline
Bathes in Braggs
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:11 pm
Posts: 1324
Location: Montreal
yeah, zoo and farm books i'm okay with. usually they're pretty general and just pictures of cute domesticated animals that she really likes.

books with meat and so on? i try to avoid reading. there's an eric carle book where you match the pictures of food to the animal, and i'm okay with that because some of the animals are actually carnivores. although she already knows that the cat/milk combo is wrong! she'll tell you straight up that cats eat fish, not milk cause milk will make them sick. we have another book that i loooooved when i was a kid called "bread and jam for frances" which i simply cannot handle because the non-vegan food is just way too prevalent. i might read it when she's old enough to talk about how we don't eat meat, etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:11 pm 
Offline
Married to the wolfman
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:49 pm
Posts: 6021
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
littlebird wrote:
we have another book that i loooooved when i was a kid called "bread and jam for frances" which i simply cannot handle because the non-vegan food is just way too prevalent. i might read it when she's old enough to talk about how we don't eat meat, etc.


We read Bread & Jam for Frances and I change all the foods. I know eventually he's going to be able to read it himself and then I'll have some explaining to do... I loved that book so much as a kid though (and the other Frances books, too, which aren't as gross-food-y).

I do the same thing with Chicken Soup with Rice by Maurice Sendak.... it's known as Chicky (or chickpea) Soup with Rice in our house.

_________________
"Hummus; a gentleman's vice." -- Mars

coldandsleepy cooks, THE BLOG!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:17 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19324
Location: Cliffbar NJ
Kelly wrote:
I don't think you can censor non-vegan things from kids fully because at some point they are going to be really confused. I've always just grazed over obviously non vegan foods in books, etc and if questioned, I'll say "Oh that's an egg but we don't eat that because we're vegan" and move along. I'm a big believer in giving tiny kids the information they ask for, when they are ready for it. This has worked really well for both of my kids. Silas saw a kid eating a hard boiled egg for the first time last week and said "What is that? Is that an egg?", then said "Oh, I don't eat animal foods because I'm vegan" and just went back to playing. He also veganizes his toy food in his kitchen (all hand me downs from an older cousin), he'll say "This bacon is vegan! Vegan bacon is so yummy!". With captive animals, I just would say something like "Oh that monkey is so cute! I bet it would be so much happier living in a jungle instead of that little cage!" and continue on. It's really easy to get into greater detail with kids when they are old enough, if they've heard the basics their whole life, you know?

I like your approach!

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:39 pm 
Offline
Grandfathered In
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 9700
Location: Seattle
coldandsleepy wrote:
Ariann, your post made me remember back when the Emperor said that all animals said meow... I hadn't thought of that phase in a long time, so thanks. Also, woofing fish made me laugh.

We have a Richard Scarry book called At Work that bothers me a bit-- there's a page with a butcher on it and big gross slabs of meat. E and I do talk about it now, just like we talk about meat when we pass by the butcher at the grocery store etc. I don't really love having to talk to him about it, and when he was younger we would just skip that page.

We also have a Richard Scarry book where, I shiitake you not, someone buys a pizza for the firehouse pigs and it has bacon on it. I showed it to solipsistnation and he said "FootFace doesn't have a blog anymore" really sadly.


http://suicidefood.blogspot.com/2007/10/corruption-of-childhood.html

(It mentions Richard Scarry, but doesn't have the pigs-eating-pigs images I remembered it having.)

_________________
Did somebody say Keep on rockin?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:25 am 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 1861
Location: Scotland
OMG, Footie, I really enjoyed reading that. The Little Mermaid endorsing fish fingers was my favourite. Free 'Les Poissons' mp3! (Okay, not really, but....)

_________________
http://reallycrabbycrafter.blogspot.com
http://www.etsy.com/shop/TheTartanVicar


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:51 am 
Offline
Because Bob Barker Told Me To

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:18 pm
Posts: 905
There was a Barbecue place here that had a sign with a smiling piggy wearing a chef hat BASTING himself with barbecue sauce...ewww


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:30 am 
Offline
Grandfathered In
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 9700
Location: Seattle
Don't get me started on the self-basting pigs!

_________________
Did somebody say Keep on rockin?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:33 pm 
Offline
The Real Hamburger Helper
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 2242
Location: Oxford, UK
Oi, that blog page makes me want to grab Freya and run away to live on some remote island. Urgh.

We're not fussed about the farm books yet either. We don't have any with pictures of "non vegan" things (eating eggs, milking cows, etc.) so for now, it's just that all of the animals live there with the farmer. Zoos are a different issue, imo. I hate hate HATE the term "zoo animals" (used a lot amongst my preschool teacher cohorts). Ain't no freaking thing as a "zoo animal" 'cept maybe some rats or pigeons, etc.

Freya's going to have to learn about the wider world at some point, so as long as the books aren't graphic, I don't imagine that we'd censor them as she grows older. Honestly (slightly off topic), I'm more bothered by the books that have that 1950s era gender stereotyping thing going on. I swear if I had to read about how the Tiger Who Came to Tea drank 'all of "daddy's" beer or about the dumbfounded wife who couldn't figure out what to do until dad comes home and says "hey....let's go out". SIgh. /end distracted rant


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: VEGAN or NOT VEGAN?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:10 pm 
Offline
Married to the wolfman
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:49 pm
Posts: 6021
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
refinnej wrote:
Honestly (slightly off topic), I'm more bothered by the books that have that 1950s era gender stereotyping thing going on. I swear if I had to read about how the Tiger Who Came to Tea drank 'all of "daddy's" beer or about the dumbfounded wife who couldn't figure out what to do until dad comes home and says "hey....let's go out". SIgh. /end distracted rant


Oh, so one weird thing about re-reading The Hobbit with the Emperor was that I really noticed something I had never noticed when reading it as a kid: there are 0 female characters in it. Seriously. Not ONE female character. As a lifelong SF & fantasy reader, and a female, I know it's a common problem (either lack of female characters or very poorly written female characters) but one that I've made peace with for my own self. But I find I am really bothered by the idea that my son might grow up thinking it's totally not bizarre to have an entire adventure (with a 14-person party and countless encounters with outside groups!) and not have even one female character.

Some of the worst gender stereotyping stuff I've ever seen has been in children's books. Like, picture books. I could go on about that at length.

_________________
"Hummus; a gentleman's vice." -- Mars

coldandsleepy cooks, THE BLOG!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer