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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:41 pm 
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ndpittman wrote:
Do you all take a separate b12 supplement or a multivitamin with b12? I got the Deva multivitamins, so I'm wondering if I'm OK (I mean, if I take them).


Jack Norris' info on B12 says the most recent studies show no significant difference between sublingual B12 and multivitamins/tablets swallowed whole. It's a good idea to just get your levels checked--if they're good, then you know the multivitamin is fine.

I think it's a good idea for everyone to get their levels checked at least once, for a baseline (though I know blood tests are not always affordable). My stores are crazy high for a vegan but my mother, who takes in a lot of B12 through diet alone, has really low stores. A lot of people have absorption issues that are better addressed through injections.

I never forget to take my B12 but funny enough, I'm really bad about remembering my D (which is now three points away from the low end of normal, up from being a couple points away from rickets-risk). I think it's because my B12 tastes like a children's chewable vitamin. Really. Tastes like candy.

Speaking of which: being low on vitamin D manifests symptoms similar to anemia...and you need calcium to absorb D. End PSA.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:01 pm 
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vijita wrote:
j-dub wrote:
Mr. Shankly wrote:
I don't take b12 (ever), I don't eat many b-fortified foods (if ever) and I've been out of nooch for a while. I had blood work done not too long ago and specifically had my b12 levels tested and I was fine. I'm always confused about how I've never had problems with my b12 level.

It can take 5+ years. I was fine for 11 years of vegetarianism and then toward the end of my second year vegan I was barely functional--thought I had mono again. Got my B12 levels checked and they were way low. I really wouldn't tempt it, to be honest. Once you go through your stores it can take a good amount of time supplementing to get them back up again, and really you should just always be supplementing.

This! I have been vegetarian for 16 years (vegan for seven), and only now is this affecting me.

Take your B12. Also, thanks for the sympathy. <3


This is terrifying. I've been going through some energy issues (and I'm NOT a healthy vegan...I try, but the last year has been a mess) and chalked it up my depression. I asked for a b12 test, but the doctors here told me I can't get it tested unless I have stomach problems. ? I dunno. I really want to have it tested, but don't know another angle for convincing them. I try to take my vitamins, but I forget so often.

When you guys say "sublingual" - what are you talking about? I never see these in stores. Only tablets. I had some spray, but are the sublingual tabs the best? It sounds easy enough that I wouldn't avoid it.


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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Pickledtreats, you can also order a B12 test on your own, from one of these direct to consumer lab testing places for about $60. They contract out with places like LabCorp, so it's legit. I was about to do this myself since my student clinic only checks for b12 by looking at the RBC. Here's the place i was looking at:
https://www.directlabs.com/OrderTests/t ... fault.aspx

I bought my sublingual b12 on amazon. I think the company is Deva.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:32 pm 
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pickledtreats wrote:
This is terrifying. I've been going through some energy issues (and I'm NOT a healthy vegan...I try, but the last year has been a mess) and chalked it up my depression. I asked for a b12 test, but the doctors here told me I can't get it tested unless I have stomach problems. ? I dunno. I really want to have it tested, but don't know another angle for convincing them. I try to take my vitamins, but I forget so often.

When you guys say "sublingual" - what are you talking about? I never see these in stores. Only tablets. I had some spray, but are the sublingual tabs the best? It sounds easy enough that I wouldn't avoid it.


Don't be scared! We will defy this together! Let's all take our vitamins! I haven't been the healthiest vegan either these days. All I crave is crepe, which is kind of unlike me. Don't get me wrong, I've always been obsessed with potato chips, fries, and various other deep-fried stuff, but I always used to want veggies a lot more than I do now. Now it's all carbs and salt, then no appetite. And it's not like I'm even eating a tonne of those things...I can have a baked potato with some earth balance and nooch and feel full for the rest of the day. It's really dumb and annoying. I will literally shove forkfuls of greens in my mouth just to get in some veg!

I'm wondering about the low B12 and stomach problems thing. I have the aforementioned loss of appetite and yet I poop like five times a day. It's not uncomfortable, per say, but it definitely doesn't feel normal.

Sublingual means you put it under your tongue to dissolve, and your salivary glands take it in. I think spray and tables are fine too, though.

Holy shiitake B12 is important. I have been bad!


Last edited by vijita on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Whoops just realized you are not in the US. But there might be something a similar company in the Netherlands!

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Let's use this reminder to make sure that we aren't just remembering to take B12 but that we're actually taking adequate doses. B12 is obviously not something we should be messing around with. We really shouldn't need these reminders--I am really shocked by the number of people posting here who have been aware of the problem and yet are still not consistently and adequately supplementing. That said, I'm not perfect either--off to check if my B12 is methyl or cyanocobalamin.

http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/11/recom ... egans.html

Quote:
Here is how those who are supplementing with B12 could become deficient:
· They waited too long to start supplementing and then didn’t take a high enough dosage to rebuild stores.
· They think they are supplementing “faithfully,” but are really just taking a small dose of B12 a couple of times a week.
· They aren’t chewing their B12 tablet or using a sublingual pill and aren’t digesting the pills that are swallowed whole.
· They are using methylcobalamin instead of cyanocobalamin, not realizing that the dosage requirements for methylcobalamin could be much higher—maybe as high as 1,000 to 2,000 micrograms per day (as opposed to the 25 micrograms of cyanocobalamin that are probably sufficient.)
...
Vitamin B12. You can’t get enough by eating unwashed organic produce or mushrooms grown in B12-rich soil. The recommended dose is 25 to 100 micrograms per day or 1,000 micrograms 2-3 times per week. If you have not been taking B12 for a while, start out with 2,000 micrograms daily for several weeks. Or get a blood test to see where you are and whether you might need a more therapeutic dose.


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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:00 pm 
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pickledtreats wrote:

This is terrifying. I've been going through some energy issues (and I'm NOT a healthy vegan...I try, but the last year has been a mess) and chalked it up my depression. I asked for a b12 test, but the doctors here told me I can't get it tested unless I have stomach problems. ? I dunno. I really want to have it tested, but don't know another angle for convincing them. I try to take my vitamins, but I forget so often.


Must be your doctor or the way you ask for it cause I can get a b12 test without a problem.

Did you mention you're vegan? (perhaps you have to explain what vegan is)


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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:29 pm 
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tinglepants! wrote:
ndpittman wrote:
Do you all take a separate b12 supplement or a multivitamin with b12? I got the Deva multivitamins, so I'm wondering if I'm OK (I mean, if I take them).


Jack Norris' info on B12 says the most recent studies show no significant difference between sublingual B12 and multivitamins/tablets swallowed whole. It's a good idea to just get your levels checked--if they're good, then you know the multivitamin is fine.

I think it's a good idea for everyone to get their levels checked at least once, for a baseline (though I know blood tests are not always affordable). My stores are crazy high for a vegan but my mother, who takes in a lot of B12 through diet alone, has really low stores. A lot of people have absorption issues that are better addressed through injections.

I never forget to take my B12 but funny enough, I'm really bad about remembering my D (which is now three points away from the low end of normal, up from being a couple points away from rickets-risk). I think it's because my B12 tastes like a children's chewable vitamin. Really. Tastes like candy.

Speaking of which: being low on vitamin D manifests symptoms similar to anemia...and you need calcium to absorb D. End PSA.

Can we talk about vitamin D as well? I was taking a D supplement on top of my multi for a while, but then all that news about how too much isn't awesome either and you shouldn't supplement D if you're not deficient came out. I think my total with supplement and multi is like 1400iu a day, which should be fine... right?


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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Thessaly wrote:
Can we talk about vitamin D as well? I was taking a D supplement on top of my multi for a while, but then all that news about how too much isn't awesome either and you shouldn't supplement D if you're not deficient came out. I think my total with supplement and multi is like 1400iu a day, which should be fine... right?


You may not be able to accurately answer this question until you know what your D levels are. I know I take about 3 times what people with normal levels take...which brings me to another question for this thread:

Anyone know of ways to get inexpensive bloodwork done in the US? Without insurance, a blood test for D levels runs about $100!

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:48 pm 
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I've got to take my vitamins! You've got to take your vitamins! (They're good for you, they're good for you)!

I take 8-9 Emergen-C's per week, (and occasional sublinguals, as well), but I've never had my b12 levels checked. Or my D levels. I'm guessing maybe this would be a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:26 am 
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Veg_Eric wrote:
pickledtreats wrote:

This is terrifying. I've been going through some energy issues (and I'm NOT a healthy vegan...I try, but the last year has been a mess) and chalked it up my depression. I asked for a b12 test, but the doctors here told me I can't get it tested unless I have stomach problems. ? I dunno. I really want to have it tested, but don't know another angle for convincing them. I try to take my vitamins, but I forget so often.


Must be your doctor or the way you ask for it cause I can get a b12 test without a problem.

Did you mention you're vegan? (perhaps you have to explain what vegan is)


I had them test some other things (calcium, I think?), but he said they wouldn't test my D or B12 unless there were symptoms or reasons to believe a deficiency was present. I can't quite remember - maybe I did get my D checked - but I know he said no specifically to b12. I'll go back and ask. Maybe I need to explain it to him better. But he is very aware that I'm vegan, because I had to get my cholesterol checked for a heart thing and he laughed about how "un-American" my cholesterol levels were because of being vegan. Hmm.

Can I ask how often you get it, VegEric? Do you just get a referral to the blood bank? My huisarts seems to be he kind that says no first. It's frustrating at times. :/


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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:23 pm 
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You know what sucks even more than B12 deficiency/anemia? Trying to fight off a cold with the deficiencies. This sucks. My sleep is awful and I am so foggy/no appetite/blocked sinuses/enraged throat/fever/achy. On the four days I took off to finish a really important writing project. I'm usually not a whiner with colds but this one is really pissing me off.


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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:27 pm 
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tinglepants! wrote:

Anyone know of ways to get inexpensive bloodwork done in the US? Without insurance, a blood test for D levels runs about $100!


Well, the company I was looking at for my b12 test charges $60 for a vit D test. That's about as cheap as Ive seen. You can also buy at home test kits for $50-60/test.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:32 pm 
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ndpittman wrote:
Do you all take a separate b12 supplement or a multivitamin with b12? I got the Deva multivitamins, so I'm wondering if I'm OK (I mean, if I take them).


I take the Deva multivitamins, too. I've never had my levels checked, but earlier this year I was super lazy about taking them and I was tired all the time and my memory was horrible. I couldn't concentrate on anything and would always be sitting at my desk at work, struggling to remember what I was supposed to be doing. It eventually clicked that it might have been a B12 thing. I keep the vitamins (and my glucosamine) next to my toothpaste so I see them first thing every morning and remember to take them then. After a few months of taking them every day, I feel a million times better! So I figure that's probably a good sign in terms of them doing their job.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:51 pm 
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It sort of felt like the silliest thing in the world when I started doing it, but a granny-type pill box next to my bed has been the greatest aid ever in taking my stuff every day. Just saying. Don't be embarrassed, just get one of those. It works.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:54 pm 
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mollyjade wrote:
vijita wrote:
That's interesting. What do you guys eat for fortified B12 foods? I'm stocked up on vitamins, soy milk, and emergen-c. (I will probably get a shot when I revisit my doctor in a few days), but I don't really like stuff like cliff bars and breakfast cereals. I do eat a tonne of nooch, not because I'm sold on it being a reliable source of B12, but because it's delicious.

Some margarines are fortified with it. Smart Balance is, but Earth Balance isn't, which drives me crazy.

I keep my bottle of b12 by my computer and pop one every time a vegan writes about b12. Like a drinking game, but with better side effects.


This is exactly how I do it! It's pretty effective at making sure I take B12 at least once a week.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:02 pm 
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pickledtreats wrote:
Veg_Eric wrote:
pickledtreats wrote:

Can I ask how often you get it, VegEric? Do you just get a referral to the blood bank? My huisarts seems to be he kind that says no first. It's frustrating at times. :/


Last one was two years ago when I had to show up for an annual check-up. (didn't visit the doctor since then).

I usually get a form on which the doc ticked some boxes, and with that form I can go to one of the "neighbourhood nurse stations" where they'll draw a couple of vials of blood.
If I was refused a b12 test, I wouldn't mind ticking an extra box on the form...

One of the reasons for not having it checked regularly is that I make sure I do get enough anyway. B12 is important and I don't want permanent damage because of a deficiency.

If you have doubts and don't want to put pressure on your huisarts, I recommend getting Solgar b12 1000mcg (make sure it says suitable for vegans on the bottle)
1 bottle of 100 tablets is 16 euro. 1 per day is enough and if your level is low, that will help you build up your level of b12. The bottle will last 3 months.

There are six stores in your town that sell Solgar http://www.solgar.nl/verkooppunten/


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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Do you all take it daily? I don't think I've ever heard two vegans say they take it the same exact way before. Or for that matter, even the same amount.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:49 pm 
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I went through periods of taking it every day, but when I got really busy with work (I know, pitiful excuse to not "have time" to take one measly pill) I just kind of got out of the habit. Bad me! I am fighting a cold right now and my body is usually much better at fighting.

I think every day is ideal.

I feel like every single vegans/B12 thing I've ever read I've hypocritically thought "duh, take your B12!", and I hate that I have to tell my doctor that I wasn't really taking it for loooong stretches of time.


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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:06 pm 
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Thanks! I'm thinking of getting the spray kind (whenever I have the money). I still don't have any problems with my b12 level but ya'll are so hellbent on safe than sorry with it and I don't want to end up being deficient somewhere along the road.

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:52 pm 
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I take some daily in my multi (Deva) and get some more most days from nooch and/or fortified almond milk. I also have higher dose raspberry-flavored chewable B12s that I take whenever I think about it (average probs once a week.)

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:06 pm 
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I hope you feel better soon, Vijita. Thanks for the reminder - I'm gonna take one of my sublingual tablets as soon as I get home.

Vegans: there is *no point* relying upon fortified foods, because they're not reliable. It's not hard to take a supplement, and the benefits and lack of danger far ouweight the hassle!


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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Why is fortified food so unreliable?

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:53 pm 
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i have 5000 mcg sublinguals, and my intention when i purchased them was to take one once a week. (the bottle had expired in 2008, so you can see how well i kept THAT up.)

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 Post subject: Re: Take your b12
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Because *food* isn't reliable, and vitamins in food are easily affected. If you don't shake your soy milk, and you only drink the top part - you're probably missing out on the calcium, which has most likely settled at the bottom.
Nutritional Yeast can sit in shelves, out in the open, in bright light, which would most likely affect the levels of the vitamins, including B12, in them. Studies are being done, and it is thought that heating nutritional yeast affects the levels of b12, etc.

So many variables - whereas with a vitamin, these variables are all reduced, if not negated completely.


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