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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Jigglypuff wrote:
nickvicious wrote:
Chicki wrote:
I can't believe that the GMO food labeling proposition lost here in California. Lost by a HUGE margin.

I don't know what happened there, either. What happened CA? Aren't you supposed to be all the organic, liberal types? Then again, CA is the (genetically modified) bread basket, too.

Given that we failed to legalize marijuana or protect marriage equality, I'd say we're less liberal than people think.


Inland empire and orange county tends to ruin things.

Although conceptually, I think it should be legalized, I think I'd have to convince myself to vote for recreational use of marijuana. I don't like smoke of any kind so I'd hope it wouldn't increase my exposure.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:58 pm 
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i think the GMO labelling thing should be a national issue. i mean those of us who live in colder climates get a large amount of food from California.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Was the PROP 37 worded confusingly so that people voted no when they meant yes or the like? Or was it just the bombardment of Big Food propaganda that did them in?

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Hmn, this was the short wording apparently
"Requires labeling of food sold to consumers made from plants or animals with genetic material changed in specified ways. Prohibits marketing such food, or other processed food, as 'natural.' Provides exemptions."

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/C ... Food_(2012)

I don't know. It sounds clear to me. It just sounds really boring the way it's phrased.


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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:29 pm 
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"with genetic material changed in specified ways."
what? were they prohibited from using "genetically modified"? geez.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:37 pm 
Calls "cavemen" on that
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It was worded pretty clearly. I cannot understand why it did not pass. Perhaps some people thought the cost of food would go up if additional labeling was needed (not true..they get more than enough time to change the labels)

Also, there was quite a bit of pro prop 37 advertising as well. In fact, I say that I encountered more PRO stuff than CON on tv, local businesses etc.

I am baffled. Sadly baffled. I thought this one was in the bag.


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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:50 pm 
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CA is a huge agricultural state. I wonder if those interests were responsible for the outcome of 37 (i.e., voters whose livelihood is dependent on agriculture). On npr they were saying it was voted down because it was poorly crafted (too many exemptions, it penalized retailers, needs more federal oversight/legislation not just a sloppy CA prop etc). The major CA newspapers were against it for those reasons and also because it stigmatized GE crops. All the yes-on-37ers were saying, "no, it's just about a right to know" but I think that's really disingenuous. It was also meant to cast a negative light on all GMOs, and I think that's wrong. There's a lot of good that can come from GE foods.

I voted for 37 but I was pretty conflicted because of the reasons I mentioned to be against it. I think we can come up with a better way to inform people about food production (GMOs and beyond).

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:53 pm 
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I've read that something like 90% of Americans believe they should know if their food is GMO, so I thought this must have been in the bag, too. Must've been some pretty compelling ads!

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Maybe the food industry secretly helped the new marijuana laws pass. If people are stoned enough they will not care what they eat.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Since the opposition to prop 37 wasn't just Big Food, but also nearly every major scientific organization in the country, I'm not surprised that it failed.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:27 pm 
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I snipped this from Media Matters because it is beautiful and perfectly sums up the alternate reality that contemporary republicans exist in.
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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:47 pm 
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couroupita wrote:
CA is a huge agricultural state. I wonder if those interests were responsible for the outcome of 37 (i.e., voters whose livelihood is dependent on agriculture). On npr they were saying it was voted down because it was poorly crafted (too many exemptions, it penalized retailers, needs more federal oversight/legislation not just a sloppy CA prop etc). The major CA newspapers were against it for those reasons and also because it stigmatized GE crops. All the yes-on-37ers were saying, "no, it's just about a right to know" but I think that's really disingenuous. It was also meant to cast a negative light on all GMOs, and I think that's wrong. There's a lot of good that can come from GE foods.

Yep. I voted no on 37 mostly because I thought it would be poorly implemented. From the LATimes endorsement to say no on Prop 37:
LATimes wrote:
Most of the burden for ensuring that foods are properly labeled would fall not on producers but on retailers, which would have to get written statements from their suppliers verifying that there were no bioengineered ingredients — a paperwork mandate that could make it hard for mom-and-pop groceries to stay in business. Enforcement would largely occur through lawsuits brought by members of the public who suspect grocers of selling unlabeled food, a messy and potentially expensive way to bring about compliance.

So yeah, it would hurt small retailers more than Monsanto, and I'm not OK with that.

I'm not totally sure how I stand on GMO foods in general because while I think that in theory, GMO foods can actually be environmentally beneficial, I hate the fact that in practice, the bulk of the GMO crops out there are things like roundup-ready soy and corn.


Last edited by helbury on Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:53 pm 
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LisaPunk wrote:
how is Puerto Rico possibly becoming the 51st state not huge news?

Rhizopus Oligosporus wrote:
Why is Puerto Rico not all over the news? I have to go to the PPK to find things out.

Maybe because in order for Puerto Rico to join the Union, it has to be approved by Congress, and I can't see the Republican controlled House supporting that?


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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:55 pm 
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helbury wrote:
LisaPunk wrote:
how is Puerto Rico possibly becoming the 51st state not huge news?

Rhizopus Oligosporus wrote:
Why is Puerto Rico not all over the news? I have to go to the PPK to find things out.

Maybe because in order for Puerto Rico to join the Union, it has to be approved by Congress, and I can't see the Republican controlled House supporting that?


Yep, isn't going to happen. Same with DC.


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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Imitation Of Chris wrote:
Barney Frank was in the house, not the senate.
It's pretty amazing that marriage equality passed in 3 states and a ban was defeated in MN.

Yeah, I realized that before I came back here...I hate that my state (NC) passed a ban on same-sex marriage last year. When Obama won it in 2008, I thought we were actually getting more progressive. Then in 2010, NC was overtaken by Republicans in the state house and senate (first time in decades) and now we elected a Republican governor. I fear for the outcome, especially since I work at a community college and Republicans seem to love cutting education. [Community colleges here are already treated like the bottom of the barrel with universities and then public schools getting more funding per capita.]

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Imitation Of Chris wrote:
Since the opposition to prop 37 wasn't just Big Food, but also nearly every major scientific organization in the country, I'm not surprised that it failed.

Yup. This is why I voted against it, in addition to the things mentioned in helbury's post.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:00 pm 
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I moved out of CA before the election, but I had intended to vote no on 37. I just think people need to realize that those who voted no weren't necessarily duped by confusing wording or misleading advertising. I have done a great deal of research on this issue and have simply come to a different conclusion than many folks. I just hate seeing everyone say how uninformed the people voted no are.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:22 pm 
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helbury wrote:
LisaPunk wrote:
how is Puerto Rico possibly becoming the 51st state not huge news?

Rhizopus Oligosporus wrote:
Why is Puerto Rico not all over the news? I have to go to the PPK to find things out.

Maybe because in order for Puerto Rico to join the Union, it has to be approved by Congress, and I can't see the Republican controlled House supporting that?

Actually, I'm hearing this might be the pefect chance for republicans to start wooing the latino vote. But who knows, maybe they'll just be the same 'ol predictable republicans

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:08 pm 
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I just found out a friend of mine was told that she had to vote on every race and couldn't leave anything blank or her ballot wouldn't count! So she ended up voting for a Republican in one race (unopposed). And she was told this by an election judge and someone at the Dallas elections dept. They also told her that write-ins would make her vote "suspect". That is some shady shiitake.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:32 pm 
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rachell37 wrote:
I just found out a friend of mine was told that she had to vote on every race and couldn't leave anything blank or her ballot wouldn't count! So she ended up voting for a Republican in one race (unopposed). And she was told this by an election judge and someone at the Dallas elections dept. They also told her that write-ins would make her vote "suspect". That is some shady shiitake.

Wow! Is she planning to report this? That is definitely shady.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Whovian wrote:
Imitation Of Chris wrote:
Barney Frank was in the house, not the senate.
It's pretty amazing that marriage equality passed in 3 states and a ban was defeated in MN.

Yeah, I realized that before I came back here...I hate that my state (NC) passed a ban on same-sex marriage last year. When Obama won it in 2008, I thought we were actually getting more progressive. Then in 2010, NC was overtaken by Republicans in the state house and senate (first time in decades) and now we elected a Republican governor. I fear for the outcome, especially since I work at a community college and Republicans seem to love cutting education. [Community colleges here are already treated like the bottom of the barrel with universities and then public schools getting more funding per capita.]


Obama voters helped the gay marriage ban pass in Virginia. Without the big increase in religious (mostly Southern Baptist) democrats, it never would have passed after Northern VA etc was factored in. But areas like Richmond that were blue landslides were also marriage ban landslides.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Nebraskalaska wrote:
I moved out of CA before the election, but I had intended to vote no on 37. I just think people need to realize that those who voted no weren't necessarily duped by confusing wording or misleading advertising. I have done a great deal of research on this issue and have simply come to a different conclusion than many folks. I just hate seeing everyone say how uninformed the people voted no are.


Yeah, I have no interest in starting a gmo argument on the ppk, but I voted no as well. Here's a really cogent vegan perspective if anyone wants it - http://saywhatmichaelpollan.wordpress.c ... al-damage/

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:51 pm 
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vegimator wrote:
Nebraskalaska wrote:
I moved out of CA before the election, but I had intended to vote no on 37. I just think people need to realize that those who voted no weren't necessarily duped by confusing wording or misleading advertising. I have done a great deal of research on this issue and have simply come to a different conclusion than many folks. I just hate seeing everyone say how uninformed the people voted no are.


Yeah, I have no interest in starting a gmo argument on the ppk, but I voted no as well. Here's a really cogent vegan perspective if anyone wants it - http://saywhatmichaelpollan.wordpress.c ... al-damage/


THANK YOU! While I didn't vote I was pretty active in the public debate over prop 37, judging by my twitter feed it seems most folks think that its was just about brainwashing.

Quote:
Was the PROP 37 worded confusingly so that people voted no when they meant yes or the like? Or was it just the bombardment of Big Food propaganda that did them in?


Interestingly I did see a posted picture ofa ballot when the yes/no boxes on prop 37 were missing...not sure how widespread that was but I would say cock-up before conspiracy
Quote:
what? were they prohibited from using "genetically modified"? geez.


The FDA has a problem with that wording as its can be misleading http://www.fda.gov/food/guidancecomplia ... 059098.htm

Quote:
Perhaps some people thought the cost of food would go up if additional labeling was needed (not true..they get more than enough time to change the labels)


Proposed cost was never about the ink and paper, its about supply chain management trackign and increased product segregation...the same thing that drives up production costs for some specialty crops and organic


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Since the opposition to prop 37 wasn't just Big Food, but also nearly every major scientific organization in the country, I'm not surprised that it failed.

+1


Also congrats to CO & WA on having one more basic freedom, I'm really glad for them.

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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:17 pm 
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2016 potential Republican ticket, according to The Onion.

http://www.theonion.com/video/after-oba ... f-p,30284/

Ha!


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 Post subject: Re: US elections - 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:57 pm 
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