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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:56 am 
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I do think that people's expectations of infant sleep are based on formula fed babies. I think breastfeeding does have something to do with it, but I also think every baby is different. There are tons of formula fed babies that don't sleep well.

My poor friend had a baby that never slept and now that baby is a three year old who never sleeps. What he eats doesnt make a difference. She's visiting me for the weekend and (leaving him at home with dad) to get a break.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:11 am 
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Don't hate me for this, but Leela sleeps a ton, and sometimes I wonder how much is normal? She's a year and still has 2 naps. She is asleep now (morning nap) and will probably have an afternoon nap as well. Plus she sleeps really well through the night, most nights.

Last night, I deprived her of her PM nap, so she fell asleep at 5pm (too early!), woke up at 9:30pm and we had dinner and baked bread until 11:30 and then she slept peacefully until 8. It was so nice. I think the trick for me is to just be okay that if she is up at night, she is up for 2 hours and not to fight it or try and put her back down if she isn't exhausted, but to find something fun to do instead.

Also, I tend to sit right by her while she naps, bc if she wakes up and I am not there she cries and it breaks my heart a little. I am a giant sucker.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:55 pm 
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tlish, I would never hate you for that - in fact, I'm happy for you! Dahlia slept A LOT as a baby too, and guess what? as a 3.5 your old she still naps for 1+ hour in the afternoon and sleeps like 10-11 hours at night. It's kinda wonderful. I think it's just true that some people need less sleep and that's possibly what I'm experiencing with Sierra. My poor partner, however, will never get over the fact that she doesn't sleep as much as Dahlia (but hey, he gets nights off so I'm like STFU, what do you care if she's up nomming on my boobs half the night?)
haha needless to say, Sierra slept pretty well last night which means I did too so my outlook is markedly sunnier today!


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Hurrah for Sierra sleeping well! I SO hear you on the mood-sleep connection. Every time I have a giant blow-out fight with my husband its because I haven't slept the night before...

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:03 pm 
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refinnej wrote:
Oh my god cc. Starve your child.....nice advice.

Yeah, even her twin sister thought that was crazy! I don't even dig the "go to bed with no dinner" punishment (unless the kid isn't eating his dinner because he's being stubborn). Mr Crabby used to not get dessert for lame reasons (and in his family, that's half your dinner and means going to be hungry).

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:32 pm 
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Food is not for reward or punishment, full stop. That's another thread though :)

@tofulish, I may be *jealous* of you, but I'd never hate you for that. Every baby had enviable and well, less enviable characteristics.

Rough night here so far, but Fridays are tough. It's the one day/week that we go pick up Baby G after school and we get home very late usually (6:45/7:00). Bean fell asleep for the most part while nursing and has woken twice in an hour. She *loves* going to see Baby G, and of course the dogs and all of her plethora of cool toys. She likes riding the bus too. It's just hard if she only takes one nap before we go...she's awake from like 10:30 or 11:00 until 7:30 or 8:00 at night! (she still naps twice/day too, T'lish...one of the few things I feel like we do successfully re sleep)


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Day 8 here and we're not any better off than before, near as I can tell. She's not sleeping any night so far in her crib for that 2-3 hour spell she used to have. We've been using midnight as the cut off point (though three nights we've gone later) for going back to the big bed, mostly because K has to have some sleep on weeknights. The only positive so far is that I'm sure she's safe in the crib alone. We had a pillow fort around her in the big bed, but she's really moving too well for that to be our guard against her falling.

Last night, she woke three times in less than three hours in the evening, with no obvious pain/coldness, etc. K went up the first two times, as then I can have a break before the night comes. The third time, he went up just for a minute before me as I was pumping and needed to get some stuff together. I went up and she holds on and cuddles me, then reaches out across the hall to the big bedroom, sobbing. No way is she going back in the crib after that.

I will do whatever it takes for her to sleep, but it seems that she just doesn't/can't do it. If she wants to co-sleep, done. Big bed, little bed, mattress on the floor...I need some answers here! Sigh. She is so sad at night time. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:42 am 
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refinnej wrote:
I went up and she holds on and cuddles me, then reaches out across the hall to the big bedroom, sobbing. No way is she going back in the crib after that.

Oh, golly, that is quite heartbreaking!

I was kind-of complaining to my favourite midwife about how Raygold HAS to sleep with me (and I really cannot imagine him sleeping anywhere else and this is going to be problematic because when I have the new baby, he has to be gone -- it's a SIDS/suffocation/smoosh risk to have a baby and a toddler in bed together and I kind of think it's not unreasonable to ask my 3 year old (he'll be 3 then) to go sleep with his brother and father instead) and how he has to grab me almost all night and she told me to enjoy it while it lasts because her son was the same way and now he's 14 and although he will occasionally very suddenly show affection, usually he acts all tough and isn't the cuddly wee lad who stole away all her sleep all those years ago.

We all sleep on Japanese futons (right on the floor, like the Japanese, although we don't have the fancy quilts or tatami mats), so falling/rolling out of bed (which Beetroot totally does every night when we stay in a hotel) isn't a problem.

And, totally OT, the Japanese futon-thing happened because we kept having so many problems with mould (yay, Scotland) -- our cheap spring mattress got mouldy and then our regular (non-Japanese) futon (on a wooden frame) got mouldy (even after I got a dehumidifier). I looked into it and Japanese futons pretty much won't get mouldy if you put them away every day (like they do in Japan -- it doesn't take long at all) and you can sun them (we just hang them over the edge of our balcony, but you can hang them out windows) to kill dust mites and mould spores and other nasties (they smell so nice after sunning them, we've started sunning our duvets, too).

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:41 am 
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I am so sorry nnej! Man, we are having a sleepless night and it sucks. I can't even imagine what I'd feel like if I had months of these.

Leela has been waking up every few hours, not unhappy, just awake, and then she nurses down, falls asleep and is back up. Plus normally I can sneak out to pee or let the dog out but today every time I move she is up. And normally she wakes crying so I can hear her and rush in, but today she just woke up and sat there. Which makes me a bit nervous that I have no warning that she is up now. She was exhausted at 6 and went out finally at 8, woke at 9, went out at 10 was out until about midnight, up again at 3:00 and then up together in and out of sleep until 4:30. Cat nap at 4:30, wide afreaking wake at 5.

We are up for good and its 5:30 am. DO NOT LIKE.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:07 am 
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Butternut wrote:
I do think that people's expectations of infant sleep are based on formula fed babies. I think breastfeeding does have something to do with it, but I also think every baby is different. There are tons of formula fed babies that don't sleep well.



This is so right on. I formula fed Shae, and breastfed Silas. They both were terrible sleepers until around age 2 1/2-3ish and then perfect sleepers. Their sleeping patterns (8pm-6ish at night, long daily naps till starting school) are oddly the same, despite our lives and structure being completely different for each of them at these stages.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:57 am 
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W are still struggling with sleep over here. Grey is in his own room and usually sleeps well from 7pm until he wakes, usually around 1 or 2, then it is up every hour or two. I am completely sleep deprived. Nate, for the first time ever, took night duty last night. I have started trying to night ween Grey and he gets some other kind of milk. I just cannot do it anymore. He is 16 months, I need more sleep. I cannot remember anything, I am constantly light headed and my whole body hurts. I went to the doctor and she ran a bunch of tests, waiting for the results. I just need him to sleep more. Yesterday he almost fell asleep in the car for Naptime, I got him inside and then he wouldn't go back to sleep. It took two hours to get him to nap. I had my first real breakdown since having him, I really felt so helpless and miserable. He finally slept and took a 2.5 hour nap, on his own, without waking! That has never happened, it was amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:49 am 
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I'm sorry littlebear. I remember that feeling so well, it is truly awful. Really hope he starts sleeping and you are able to feel better. It does eventually get better!

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:13 pm 
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I am so sorry littlebear! That sounds horrible. I hope things do improve soon !!


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:15 pm 
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((hugs)) littlebear. It is so freaking hard to know what the right thing to do is. We started the harder push with the crib for Freya for some of the same reasons. When I started vomiting in the mornings, and nearly falling down the stairs...I mean, I can't take care of her if I end up in the hospital or something. Were you able to get some sleep last night when Nate was taking care of Grey?

@cc, it was killer. She goes down pretty well in the evenings though, so maybe it's just when she's super tired she wants the familiar, comforting bed. Tonight, for instance, she was content for me to sit in the recliner next to her crib while she fell asleep, with just a few shushes and "time for sleep"s, etc.

Tofulish, I saw you posting on FB this morning when I was putting F down for a morning nap. Only later did I realize that it was like 4:30 in the morning there. Here's hoping tonight brings us all some peace.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:28 am 
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I am so sorry LB and nnej, I hope you find some solutions soon. I can't imagine how rough it must be to not get good sleep for so long and to have it affect your health.

A friend of mine went to a hotel for a night just to get good sleep, bc she swears her baby can smell her. When she was gone baby slept well (nursed 2x) but it wasn't the all night buffet it is when she is home. She BF'd before leaving at 9 and baby got pumped milk from her husband and she came back at 7 am for morning nummies. Is that something that might work? I know its so hard to leave them, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:44 am 
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Thanks everyone.

The last two nights Nate gave grey a bottle with other milk in it, I cannot pump. At this point I am fine with grey getting different milk since he still gets breastmilk everyday. We had talked about me staying in a hotel but I don't want to spend the money, I am sure around here to stay in a hotel it would be at least $150. I was able to get really good sleep the last two nights. This morning Nate joked that I am all caught up and can go 16 more months again.


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:47 am 
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Hahahaha!

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Oh, I don't want to belittle what Nate has been doing, but it is funny how proud he is that he has helped iout two nights, he has been talking about it nonstop to our friends and to me. Dude, I have been doing that every single night for 16 months. Yeah, I appreciate the help, but seriously?


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:25 pm 
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I don't want to jinx it, but grey has been napping much better on his own! So exciting!


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:48 pm 
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littlebear wrote:
I don't want to jinx it, but grey has been napping much better on his own! So exciting!

That's awesome! You must be so happy! (And congratulations on those lovely nights of sleeping!)

My little guy's sleep habits have gone totally haywire. Since the time he was one day old, he napped super well, and would sleep from 8 to 7-8 every night, with just a couple of wakeups around 1 and 5 to eat. Didn't even cry. Just rooted or fussed for a boob. So wonderful! Then in the last month or two (he's now four months old), he has slowly but surely cut down his napping substantially. That's totally fine, but now it's almost impossible to get him to take a nap for longer than thirty minutes. So he's awake almost all day long, and then he's so tired he crashes for twenty minutes around 4:00 or 5:00, then too tired to go to bed easily. So now he's getting to sleep 9-10 instead, with constant wake ups. UGH. (Yeah, he's probably teething, growing, etc, but it's still super annoying. Luckily he's not too grumpy during the day - pretty laidback all day still!) Anyway, hopefully we can get back on track with some kind of normal sleep pattern!

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Bodhi - our guys are about the same age and we are having similar problems. He all of a sudden wants to stay UP UP UP and we can't get him down until around 10 - so I feel your pain!


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:38 pm 
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annasrobbie wrote:
Bodhi - our guys are about the same age and we are having similar problems. He all of a sudden wants to stay UP UP UP and we can't get him down until around 10 - so I feel your pain!

Yeah, it's awful! He went down so well tonight though, and I thought he might actually have a good sleep, but then he woke up not even fifteen minutes later. Absolutely screaming, and then quiet and incredibly awake as soon as I got to him. It's been forty-five minutes, and he's still up. I made my partner go try to get him to sleep. I've been going to bed with him lately (after several unsuccessful attempts at him going down), because there's no point in me staying up for personal time or time to cook/clean if I have to go to him every fifteen minutes to lull him back to sleep. I hope he's just teething or something, and it all clears up. I haven't spent longer than fifteen minutes not holding/watching him/etc for days! I was so used to getting some evening time to myself, so now I'm going crazy! I forgot how hard it was to have a baby with sleep issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:25 pm 
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I shouldn't post about this until the morning because I'm afraid to jinx my night, but....

She went down in the crib awake and didn't cry. Not one bit. First time ever. I peeked back in a minute later and she had already rolled over into her sleep crouch (head down, rump up).


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Aw, sleep crouch!


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 Post subject: Re: Sweet dreams (advice/questions about kid sleep)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:14 am 
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Hurrah babynut!


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