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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
I continue to be flabbergasted by the reaction of people in the group. A 4.5 month old was exposed to the first child that had the pox, a day before the first child broke out into rashes, and now (8 days later) has a full-fledged case of the pox. The reactions are (1) oh its too soon to have been the first child, so you must have gotten it elsewhere and (2) yay! Its not too soon at all - but of course the mis-information is really handy for when you want to feel better about the fact that you just exposed a tiny baby to the pox.

My husband thinks I need to say something, esp because all the groups have a lot of overlap, so its not like I can drop out of one and be done. I'd like to be able to have a conversation about respecting others and not putting other people's children at risk, by warning and quaranting children whom you know have been exposed to the chicken pox for the incubation period of between 8 and 21 days from exposure. I am pretty sure the answer is going to be a resounding (1) varicella isn't serious, (2) you are assuming the risk and (3) you can't expect people to quarantine their kids for that long.


Are all of these groups on board with the pox parties? If there are members of other groups in the area who don't know about these ridiculous events, they need to be told.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Semen Strong
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There is one very active group with regular playdates that is more mainstream, and I explained my concerns as a reason for us avoiding their playdate and was told chickenpox isn't a big deal for babies, esp if they are BF'd and they all get supermild cases and then lifelong immunity, so much better than the vax.

In the main group, I asked if we could agree that anyone exposed to the pox would not attend public events (as there are NBs there etc) and would let others know for playdates etc. The only response so far is that no quarantine is necessary and everyone assumes the risk when they go out in public. So basically people want to be able to expose their kids to a communicable disease but not be responsible for limiting the effects on others. I guess that if you're immuno-compromised or have a NB, you're out of luck.

I am feeling very stabby. Some of these people seem like entitled jerks....

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Good fork, what crassholes.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:41 am 
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Semen Strong
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There have been a lot of responses. Most are 'its not my problem what happens to other kids and why should I have to restrict my movements just bc my child might have it." The more reasonable ones are "I'm going to continue to go to all the same places, I'm just going to mention it to other moms so they can keep their kid away from mine or leave the event." Some people are actively surprised that there are people who don't want their child to get chicken pox and as a justification one person said "well you know, its really hard to catch it from another child.". Its a communicable disease!

The good news is that both the babies who have it have a very mild case. I wouldn't wish the worse side effects of varicella on any one. Even if they are rare, this is still a disease that at best is uncomfortable and at worst can be disfiguring and deadly.

I know you shouldn't judge a whole group of people by the action of a few, but at the moment these anti-vaxers seem like they are making selfish decisions based on faulty reasoning and I definitely see the "hive mentality" at work. And I am upset that I can't feel comfortable going to a bunch of local events bc they're bringing their kids and risking L getting sick.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:59 am 
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yeah...nuh. aren't they going to pox parties to catch it? which would kinda lead to the notion that people *not* attending the parties probs *don't* want it? i'm all for people having their own beliefs but sheesh. i keep my kids home if they are even just snotty.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:37 am 
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Bathes in Braggs
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I wonder how they would feel if you brought a child with lice to their playdates?


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Semen Strong
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Now they are saying that all adults have had chickenpox anyway so they are immune so no pregnant people are at risk despite the fact that the CDC lists risks to the fetus of congenital abnormalities in the brain, eyes, arms etc and a risk of NBs getting varicella with a 30% of cases being fatal. But of course we can't tell people what to do, so despite being asked not to go to an event for pregnant women, one woman has said we can't stop her. So she is going to be exposing them all to a risk of getting sick, because who are we to force her to stay home?

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Wow. Even without the vaccination issue, that's just stupid. I definitely remember that, when I was a kid, any kid who had been exposed to chicken pox (like, a sibling had it or something) was treated as if they were contagious, even if they didn't show any symptoms yet. One kid in the family with chicken pox meant that all the siblings who hadn't had it yet stayed home from school. My father got chicken pox when I was 12 (we have no idea why he didn't catch it as a kid, and then didn't catch it when my sister and I both had it when we were little, but then somehow caught it from a kid at my elementary school graduation), and while he was sick, I wasn't supposed to go over to anyone's house without first telling them, "My dad has chicken pox. Ask your mom if it's still OK if I come over."


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Semen Strong
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The latest crazy bullshiitake is the organizers saying that "because 20% of children vaccinated develop chickenpox within 42 days we can't ask people to quarantine without a scientific basis."

I have never ever heard that 20% of children given the Varicella shot then get chickenpox and basically a simple google search shows that they are literally making shiitake up. Who would vax their kid if 1 in 5 then ended up with the disease? No one.

I am now only in this group to see how this shiitake ends. I have them on the ropes bc I pointed out that we ban people who buy fake ergos bc we don't want to encourage anything that could injure children and that although we can't tell people what to do, there is nothing wrong with setting parameters for group safety. Which should include that we use good judgement and don't expose others to illnesses or lice if our kids may have them (thanks Araisig).

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:25 pm 
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The Real Hamburger Helper
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Tofulish wrote:
we ban people who buy fake ergos


What? Really? This group doesn't sound like something I would want to be a part of. I admire your ability to get out there and mingle with a lot of people but this group would be beyond my tolerance level.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Semen Strong
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The reason for discouraging fake ergos is bc they are unsafe (they can break and your baby can be injured) and are made in China often by child workers or workers who are exploited. A lot of coops are buying them cheap, and the problem is that it gives babywearing a bad name (legislators are enacting stricter rules on baby carriers made in the US bc they think the problem is that carriers are unsafe). So I do understand that.

I like the people in the group- we hike together, everyone understands veganism and many eat mostly vegetarian and everyone respects our choices, and people are very crunchy, like me. The mainstream group near me does playdates at BK and McDs. Its hard being a vegan who likes alternative stuff but also likes science. You guys may be my only hope for a community!

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
You guys may be my only hope for a community!

PPKommune!


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:24 pm 
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The Real Hamburger Helper
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oncewerewesties wrote:
Tofulish wrote:
You guys may be my only hope for a community!

PPKommune!


Yeah, I understand that. I feel like quite the alien around most parents we meet randomly. It worries me that I don't have more of a community of families for babynut to socialize with. I'm not religious, but it makes me understand why people become members of religious organizations; finding a resource for like-minded people.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
The reason for discouraging fake ergos is bc they are unsafe (they can break and your baby can be injured) and are made in China often by child workers or workers who are exploited. A lot of coops are buying them cheap, and the problem is that it gives babywearing a bad name (legislators are enacting stricter rules on baby carriers made in the US bc they think the problem is that carriers are unsafe). So I do understand that.

I like the people in the group- we hike together, everyone understands veganism and many eat mostly vegetarian and everyone respects our choices, and people are very crunchy, like me. The mainstream group near me does playdates at BK and McDs. Its hard being a vegan who likes alternative stuff but also likes science. You guys may be my only hope for a community!

Well, they have zero respect for the choice of people (like you) to not be exposed to a communicable disease. They seem to have a different definition for "respect" than I do.

To have rules about fake baby carriers but not disease is completely bonkers.

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A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Semen Strong
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I pointed that out and they shut down the thread, after posting a reply with fake statistics. I have never seen so many people rely on fake evidence to support an assload of woo. I'm not calling them ignorant, misguided faith healers bu5 I'm close.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Wrote Dissertation on Vegans, Meat, and the Deserted Island Question
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wow I kinda can't believe those people, Tlish. I mean, I've been following this thread and just muttering to myself because I don't know what the hell to say. I second pretty much everything Butternut said though!


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
I pointed that out and they shut down the thread, after posting a reply with fake statistics. I have never seen so many people rely on fake evidence to support an assload of woo. I'm not calling them ignorant, misguided faith healers bu5 I'm close.

Someone needs to start a skeptics blog called "Assload of Woo." If you would like, you can quote me to them. I have zero problem calling them that. I would also call them selfish because they care not about anyone save themselves.

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A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Heh, "assload of woo" going into my vocabulary now. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:35 pm 
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Sorry for the unnecessary bump, but...

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:13 pm 
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+1

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:15 am 
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Hahaha!


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Oh look. We have a vaccine for Lyme disease, but anti-vaxers have essentially killed its viability in the market.

http://www.wbur.org/2012/06/27/lyme-vaccine

Quote:
Introduced in 1998, the vaccine sold well at first. But then opponents spoke out: self-described ‘vaccine victims’ — perhaps similar to people today who claim the MMR vaccine causes autism. Back then, they said that the Lyme vaccine gave them arthritis.

“And this sort of got into popular lore,” Poland recalls. “It got on the Internet. There were a number of East Coast lawyers who started putting together class-action lawsuits. There were anti-vaccine advocacy groups that were formed.”

And there were threats against the scientists who had worked to help protect people against the disease. Poland had to hide where he lived. Steere got a security detail.

The clinical data did not back up any of this. The trials had not shown such side effects. The Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control looked into the claims, and then continued to recommended that people exposed to tick-infested areas get the vaccine.

But it was too late. Sales had plummeted. Four years after offering people immunity against Lyme, SmithKline Beecham stopped making the vaccine. The second vaccine-maker, Pasteur Mérieux Connaught, saw what had happened and never put out its own product.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Semen Strong
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That is forked up.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:47 pm 
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***LIES!!!***
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What???? Half my family has gotten Lyme. I would be the first person on line for a Lyme vaccine. How awful.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Semen Strong
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If you need another reason to get the pertussis vax...
http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2012/04/de ... -pertussis

Warning, you may cry.

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