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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:10 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
There is a big difference between guns for hunting, whatever and guns capable of killing 30 people in 2 minutes.



ok i know literally nothing about guns so that was just my gut reaction.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:12 pm 
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I really can't handle this. Everyone at work wants to talk about this, but I seriously can't handle this.

One of my coworkers (who's not a parent) is blabbering on and on about how it's Christmas, and all those poor kids probably had presents under the tree. Jesus Christ, that's the last thing I'd be thinking about right now. There's no one day on the calender that would be better for me to lose my child.


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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:15 pm 
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I feel like I am about to puke at any moment. I need to stop crying some time in the next two hours and hold it together in front of the kids I'll be working with today. I keep thinking of all the children I know who are kindergarden through 4th grade age. This is such a new level of senseless violence.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:20 pm 
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LisaPunk wrote:
lavawitch wrote:
There is a big difference between guns for hunting, whatever and guns capable of killing 30 people in 2 minutes.



ok i know literally nothing about guns so that was just my gut reaction.


I wasn't addressing that at you or trying defend any rah rah NRA stance. I'm all for gun control, so I was mostly agreeing with you. It's not much harder to get a semiautomatic than a hunting rifle. This makes no sense.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:22 pm 
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LisaPunk wrote:
lavawitch wrote:
There is a big difference between guns for hunting, whatever and guns capable of killing 30 people in 2 minutes.



ok i know literally nothing about guns so that was just my gut reaction.


And remember the guns that the 'founding fathers' (heaven forbid we go against anything they ever said) were guns that would take 2 minutes to fire 1 shot. You had to load the pellet and the gun powder. It wasn't a trivial task.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:24 pm 
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i know lavawitch :-) my original comment was off the cuff and i wasnt sure if it was really a valid point.


i keep obsessively refreshing CNN.com

it seems the gunman's mother was killed at the school. no word on the father. the principal and guidance counselor were also shot.

this is from CNN.com:

The suspect's mother was shot and killed at the school, according to source close to the investigation. She was a teacher there.

And we now know that Ryan Lanza, the suspected gunman, was 24.


it also says pres Obama is due to make a statement soon (actually it may have already happened) and he has ordered flags to be lowered to half-mast.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Reuters has just said two more little kids died at the hospital.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:49 pm 
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This was a horrifying thing to wake up to. For the most part, I really want to move to the US one day. But honestly, the gun control issue scares me so much that it gives me serious second thoughts.

Coming from a country that has always had a fairly regulated approach to guns, and super strict restrictions since 1996 (when we had our last gun massacre, outside of a guy shooting two people at a university ten years ago), the whole thing just baffles me. I understand the profile and influence of the lobby groups in the US, but for that to override clear best practice and international examples (we only have to worry about all the animals here trying to kill us!) is just mind-boggling.

I just can't imagine living with that kind of fear hanging over me.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:01 pm 
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I don't have anything new to add. I cannot imagine what the parents/families/town is going through. I cannot fathom the pain of losing a child. My heart goes out to all.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Did anyone see Obama's statement? He was visibly shook up. Flubbing his words and had to stop several times to collect himself. Never seen him like that. He also said something along the lines of "this happened far too many times these past few years. We need to bring both parties together and figure out how to prevent this from happening again". That's something. Not the "fork you NRA" I wanted, but I'll take what I can get.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:08 pm 
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We NEED the NRA to support changes. Without that, any legislation will go nowhere.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:15 pm 
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I am so gutted over this. This sick forking world.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:38 pm 
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So sick. Makes me wonder what can realistically be done. And everyone talking about how it's close to xmas-even worse. Like it would have been any better in August....


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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Only in America could anyone think the solution is more guns. Just think how safe we'd be if everyone was armed at all times!

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:40 pm 
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This is just so senseless, and so monstrous. So many lives destroyed and so many more devastated. It's heartbreaking.


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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:43 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
We NEED the NRA to support changes. Without that, any legislation will go nowhere.


Yes. My father-in-law has guns, they're all locked away in cases (i'm not sure why he even has them since he doesn't go to a firing range even), but I am far from 'guns are totes awesome'. I don't think there's a simple solution, but I also find many of the pro-gun arguments to be total bullshiitake. For instance, 'guns don't kill people, people do'. pickledtreats posted on her facebook page about how today, a man in China armed with a knife, attacked a group of school children. He stabbed/cut 20 of them and an elderly lady, the report I read didn't mention any deaths but said two of the kids were seriously injured. Now, that's forked up and tragic and awful, but i'm glad that guy had a knife and not a gun, or else most of, if not all of, those kids would also be dead. You can't stab 20 people from across a room, you can't make a sweeping arc with a knife that will stab a crowd full of people in mere seconds.

The NRA can scream about their rights all they want, but those rights come at a price, and this is one of the extreme prices. I would like to see anyone who speaks for the NRA took look the parent of a dead child in the eye and say that they don't believe we need stricter gun laws.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:54 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
For instance, 'guns don't kill people, people do'. pickledtreats posted on her facebook page about how today, a man in China armed with a knife, attacked a group of school children. He stabbed/cut 20 of them and an elderly lady, the report I read didn't mention any deaths but said two of the kids were seriously injured. Now, that's forked up and tragic and awful, but i'm glad that guy had a knife and not a gun, or else most of, if not all of, those kids would also be dead. You can't stab 20 people from across a room, you can't make a sweeping arc with a knife that will stab a crowd full of people in mere seconds.


I was just rambling off this exact same sentiment to my boyfriend, but much less eloquently. It's interesting how the similar violence in China today puts that argument in perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:18 pm 
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They had a criminologist / sociologist on NPR. He talked about how the people who commit school shootings have very similar profiles. They are usually depressed and they externalize their feelings to believe everyone is making their life terrible except for them. They don't take any responsibility. Then there is some acute stress, they are diagnosed with a terminal disease or lose their job or something and then they become focused on carrying out these types of mass murders.

He also said that they affect us all so deeply because we can do easily identify with the victims, we all go to school or to the cinema. But then he said while its a horrific tragedy the numbers of people killed in these mass murders has been the same in the US for decades, about 150 people a year. Then he said something like 15,000 people are killed every year in one on one homicide.

I guess this made me feel a little calmer. My first reaction is always to panic and see things like this as impending signs of doom and the end of civilization.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Pamela wrote:
So sick. Makes me wonder what can realistically be done. And everyone talking about how it's close to xmas-even worse. Like it would have been any better in August....


Not better, but having to go home and see/deal with the remnants of a happy family holiday and wrapped presents for their kid can't do anything but add to already unimaginable pain.

I think it's just one of those gut reactions people say because there isn't anything to say.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:28 pm 
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mrsbadmouth wrote:
I don't think there's a simple solution, but I also find many of the pro-gun arguments to be total bullshiitake. For instance, 'guns don't kill people, people do'.


I think the thing I struggle with is the whole 'it's our right' argument. As far as I'm concerned, you have the right to have a gun in Australia, too. It just has to be a certain type of gun (I'd never even seen an assault rifle until I went to Vietnam, and it scared the shiitake out of me), and you have to jump through a ton of hoops and provide valid reasons to get it. The right is still there. I don't understand why the 'right' needs to equal the right to unregulated/loosely regulated gun ownership.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Erinnerung wrote:
mrsbadmouth wrote:
I don't think there's a simple solution, but I also find many of the pro-gun arguments to be total bullshiitake. For instance, 'guns don't kill people, people do'.


I think the thing I struggle with is the whole 'it's our right' argument. As far as I'm concerned, you have the right to have a gun in Australia, too. It just has to be a certain type of gun (I'd never even seen an assault rifle until I went to Vietnam, and it scared the shiitake out of me), and you have to jump through a ton of hoops and provide valid reasons to get it. The right is still there. I don't understand why the 'right' needs to equal the right to unregulated/loosely regulated gun ownership.

Is the rate of gun crime low in Australia? Just wondering because the pro-gun people here always give the "but then only criminals with have guns!" argument, which I find silly.


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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Also, I wish more people would acknowledge the gendered nature of mass shootings. "People" aren't going on shooting rampages - young men are. I don't see how we can ignore this and expect these horrible events to stop.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Its also upsetting realizing how many people are quick to say that the shooter must be mentally ill, even though there is not one shred of evidence that this is the case. It really reinforces the stigma of mental illness in this country, even though people with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violence than perpetrators.

Thank you to j-dub for educating me <3

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:13 pm 
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The guy who was first named as the shooter (and whose fb profile has been shared 1,000+ times over) is actually the brother of the shooter.

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 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
Its also upsetting realizing how many people are quick to say that the shooter must be mentally ill, even though there is not one shred of evidence that this is the case. It really reinforces the stigma of mental illness in this country, even though people with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violence than perpetrators.

Thank you to j-dub for educating me <3


I confess, I am one of those people that jumps to such a conclusion. It is possibly born from ignorance, but I do not assume such because I think less of the mental ill, rather I believe that 1. our mental health programs in this country are woefully inadequate and 2. I can't fathom how anyone in complete control of their mental capacities could rationalize such an act.

Regarding gun control, I just don't see much changing and the fault lies with both sides. We will simply never ban all, or even most guns in this country anytime in the foreseeable future, and the approach by many in the pro-gun-control camp have a tendency to base their arguments with that end goal. On the other side, the NRA and other pro-gun groups have declared the slightest inconvenience to a non-criminal's ability to procure a gun is a violation of their 2nd amendment rights. There is so little rational discussion taking place to give me any hope that a pragmatic solution that would help (not solve) our problem would be enacted.

That being said, I am one of those people that thinks guns are not the primary concern (I fully recognize the scope of the tragedy is due to the gun) as I said above, I can't fathom how anyone could be considered in a healthy state of mind to commit such an act, and I think focusing efforts on that first and foremost would have a more beneficial result for the country as a whole.

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