| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:38 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 272 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:23 pm 
Offline
Dislikes Rick Santorum
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:51 am
Posts: 5350
Location: United States of New England
i cant even wrap my brain around the opinion that this clearly shows that we all need to be armed and that this could have somehow been prevented or some how lessened the death toll if everyone was armed.

that makes NO SENSE.

lets say that people in the school were in fact armed, obviously none of the kids would be i dont even think the craziest pro-gun people would say arming 5 year olds is a good idea so that leaves teachers and administrators.

so someone walks in with a semi-automatic weapon and opens fire. obviously they have surprise on their side, i dont envision anyone would actually be able to get their weapon wherever it is, take the safety off (you're in a SCHOOL after all), aim it so you arent aiming at any kids, and get a shot off before the gunman has killed 30 people.

how is MORE guns the answer?

how is it legal to own a semi-automatic weapon? what on earth do people use semi automatic weapons for other than shooting at large groups of people?!?!?!?!?!?

_________________
Unimpressed Baby Blog


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:37 pm 
Offline
Discovered unobtainium
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 12251
Location: Dinosaur Stampede
This is weird. The weapons all belonged (purchased by and registered to) to the murderer's mother. I'm no fun expert, but a Glock, Sig Sauer, and Bushnell are pretty high end, expensive weapons. Why did she have such expensive, hard core weapons in her house?

To be clear, I'm not blaming her or anything like that--it just seems odd to me.

_________________
"This is the creepiest post ever if you don't know who Molly is." -Fee
"a vegan death match sounds like something where we all end up hugging." -LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:42 pm 
Offline
Discovered unobtainium
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 12251
Location: Dinosaur Stampede
To correct my earlier statements, VT just recently banned guns on campus again. There has been a lot of back and forth in Va about this lately. Apparently there was a Virginia Supreme Court ruling setting guidelines for universities to do official bans again.

I'm glad some sanity prevailed.

_________________
"This is the creepiest post ever if you don't know who Molly is." -Fee
"a vegan death match sounds like something where we all end up hugging." -LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:06 pm 
Offline
Drinks Wild Tofurkey
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 2824
Location: Boston, MA
alden wrote:
Tofulish wrote:
Its also upsetting realizing how many people are quick to say that the shooter must be mentally ill, even though there is not one shred of evidence that this is the case. It really reinforces the stigma of mental illness in this country, even though people with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violence than perpetrators.

Thank you to j-dub for educating me <3


I confess, I am one of those people that jumps to such a conclusion. It is possibly born from ignorance, but I do not assume such because I think less of the mental ill, rather I believe that 1. our mental health programs in this country are woefully inadequate and 2. I can't fathom how anyone in complete control of their mental capacities could rationalize such an act.

Regarding gun control, I just don't see much changing and the fault lies with both sides. We will simply never ban all, or even most guns in this country anytime in the foreseeable future, and the approach by many in the pro-gun-control camp have a tendency to base their arguments with that end goal. On the other side, the NRA and other pro-gun groups have declared the slightest inconvenience to a non-criminal's ability to procure a gun is a violation of their 2nd amendment rights. There is so little rational discussion taking place to give me any hope that a pragmatic solution that would help (not solve) our problem would be enacted.

That being said, I am one of those people that thinks guns are not the primary concern (I fully recognize the scope of the tragedy is due to the gun) as I said above, I can't fathom how anyone could be considered in a healthy state of mind to commit such an act, and I think focusing efforts on that first and foremost would have a more beneficial result for the country as a whole.

I pretty much agree with all this. We have so much wrong in this country and guns are only part of it. It's a volatile combination though when we have woefully inadequate healthcare (including mental) and assault weapons that are widely available.

_________________
"If I were M. de la Viandeviande, I would now write a thirteen page post about how you have to have free will to be vegan, but modern science does not suggest any evidence for free will, therefore it is impossible to be vegan." -mumbles


Last edited by Quarantined on Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:08 pm 
Offline
Has it on Blue Vinyl
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:44 pm
Posts: 2147
Tofulish wrote:
Its also upsetting realizing how many people are quick to say that the shooter must be mentally ill, even though there is not one shred of evidence that this is the case.


Well, it looks like his brother is saying that he had a personality disorder and autism. Now this is coming from an anonymous source, but it is being reported that way.

Quote:
Ryan Lanza told law enforcement that his brother was believed to suffer from a personality disorder and be “somewhat autistic” and lived with the mother in Connecticut, the third official added. - http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html


I have some stuff I want to contribute to the conversation about mental illness, but I just don't feel ready yet. Obviously this is a distressing topic.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:23 pm 
Offline
Queen Bitch of Self-Righteous Veganville
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 10663
Location: Illinoize
I'm perfectly comfortable with the overwhelming evidence of shooting a bunch of kids pointing to the fact that he was unstable, had issues, whatever you want to call it. I fail to see how acknowledging that normal, happy, healthy people do not go on shooting sprees means that everyone with every sort of mental illness in the very broad spectrum of mental illnesses, is being demonized. But maybe i'm listening to the wrong news sources, i'm sure the pro-gun people are saying something akin to 'the kid was a nutter and that's the problem, not the guns'.

_________________
"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:26 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:12 pm
Posts: 3831
Location: Canberra, Australia
Jigglypuff wrote:
Is the rate of gun crime low in Australia? Just wondering because the pro-gun people here always give the "but then only criminals with have guns!" argument, which I find silly.


Absolutely. Knives are something like three times more common in violent crimes, and deaths caused by guns are overwhelmingly self-inflicted (I think almost 80% are suicides). It's front page news here when one person is shot, let alone thirty.

_________________
Recipes. Rants. Raunch.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:37 pm 
Offline
Discovered unobtainium
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 12251
Location: Dinosaur Stampede
Huckabee, of course, is apparently already going around saying this is because there is no God in schools (his own version of God, I'm sure).

That man is so vile. He blamed the Aurora shootings on similar crepe. He needs to go stuff more chicken sandwiches in his mouth and shut the fork up.

_________________
"This is the creepiest post ever if you don't know who Molly is." -Fee
"a vegan death match sounds like something where we all end up hugging." -LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:45 pm 
Offline
protein lump
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:47 am
Posts: 2492
Location: providence via jersey
mrsbadmouth wrote:
I'm perfectly comfortable with the overwhelming evidence of shooting a bunch of kids pointing to the fact that he was unstable, had issues, whatever you want to call it.

this. a thousand times.

_________________
I'm one of those vegans that cuts corners when it comes to things like breastfeeding and stabbing you in the face~Pranjal
That story would be adorable if it didn't end with herpes. ~Mo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:49 pm 
Offline
Discovered unobtainium
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 12251
Location: Dinosaur Stampede
esme wrote:
mrsbadmouth wrote:
I'm perfectly comfortable with the overwhelming evidence of shooting a bunch of kids pointing to the fact that he was unstable, had issues, whatever you want to call it.

this. a thousand times.


I agree. I've personally dealt with mental illness stigma, and it is a serious problem, but what we need is more understanding and more access to resources. "Mental illness" is so broad and vague as to be pretty much meaningless. People with healthy brain patterns and thought processes don't go shoot an entire classroom on kindergarten kids.

The problem is, mental illness doesn't really get discussed at other times to any meaningful degree.

_________________
"This is the creepiest post ever if you don't know who Molly is." -Fee
"a vegan death match sounds like something where we all end up hugging." -LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:35 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19105
Location: Cliffbar NJ
Someone posted on FB that they know the family, and the shooter had been treated for depression. So he does have a mental illness, but the same one that millions of non-violent Americans do.

I think its problematic to ascribe it all to mental illness and not at least look at the contributing role that the culture of open access to guns plays.

The Sandy Hook school shootings are now more deadly than the Colombine shootings were.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:43 pm 
Offline
Heeeerrrrree's JACKY!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:39 pm
Posts: 4096
Location: the Eug
I don't think anyone is equating all persons with mental illness to violence (well, my mother was trying too...).


It would be ideal if we, as a culture, as a country, could realize that mental health does not exist in a vacuum. Guns do not exist in a vacuum. All of these things are interconnected. And we need to start treating them as such.

_________________
Don't mind my breasts and vagina, I'm a gay man.---Idatetatooedguys.

"Tots: the universal food band-aid... better than a mother's kiss. Healin' wounds since 1954." Meggs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:50 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19105
Location: Cliffbar NJ
lavawitch wrote:
Huckabee, of course, is apparently already going around saying this is because there is no God in schools (his own version of God, I'm sure).

That man is so vile. He blamed the Aurora shootings on similar crepe. He needs to go stuff more chicken sandwiches in his mouth and shut the fork up.


The worst thing about Huckabee is how many people like him because he has a really sweet face, plays music and seems folksy. He always seems like he'd be a kindly preacher type who might not agree with you, but he'd be gentle and kind in his disagreement. Instead he's a freaking hatemonger.

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:58 pm 
Offline
WRETCHED
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:54 pm
Posts: 8646
Location: Maryland/DC area
Obviously something is 'wrong' with someone who can kill their mother and plan to kill multiple young kids. It isn't normal behavior because we generally have a good idea of what normal behavior is and yes actions like these can be normally attributed to some mental illness. There are multiple reasons for violent crimes today in the US but I don't know any other crime like this committed by a perfectly sane person.

Maybe if we had better facilities for mental illness or coping with stress or whatever, things like this wouldn't happen. I think it is ok to say that maybe this is partially a failure of the healthcare system in the US today. I don't think it is ok to say "well they were mentally ill, it really wasn't the fault of guns". We don't know the person but it is something more than mental illness such as reaching a breaking point in which someone who may be medicated or equipped with coping procedures may be able to deal with better. Mental illness doesn't make things like this inevitable,

_________________
You are all a disgrace to vegans. Go f*ck yourselves, especially linanil.


Last edited by linanil on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:00 pm 
Offline
Discovered unobtainium
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 12251
Location: Dinosaur Stampede
I have mostly heard people either speculating about possible mental illness or saying that the brother said various things. I haven't heard anyone blaming this on mental illness.

I think the big problem comes in when people start to forget that there are 20 dead small children and start pushing agendas. The rah rah gun people will try to pin this on factors such as mental illness, which makes it even more important that we have an educated public to cut through the bullshiitake.

I can say, as both someone who had severe depression (mental illness) as a high school students, and a highschool teacher that we have already come a long way. When I was in school, there was no compassion, no awareness, and no infrastructure to help kids like me. Now, we are trained to watch for signs of trouble somwe can help, constructively. I've had students with medical plans for mental illness issues and they are able to succeed. I have one student who bloomed in my class with all of the support he was given. I was locked in mental hospital and called a "problem" and allowed to come back only if I pretended my problems were solved. My parents were under threat from CPS if they did not force me to attend school. They also withheld my diagnosis as bipolar.

My point is that as shitty as slapping around labels is, they can hopefully start a helpful dialogue. In only 15 years, this school district has gone from openly hostile to amazing on this issue, and that has to be due to increasing awareness. We actually just had a professional seminar on how to spot warning signs for teen depression.

I don't know if I just made sense; I hope so.

I also hope that this doesn't become so politicized that everybody overlooks the tragedy here, with 27 people murdered.

_________________
"This is the creepiest post ever if you don't know who Molly is." -Fee
"a vegan death match sounds like something where we all end up hugging." -LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:02 pm 
Offline
Discovered unobtainium
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 12251
Location: Dinosaur Stampede
Tofulish wrote:
lavawitch wrote:
Huckabee, of course, is apparently already going around saying this is because there is no God in schools (his own version of God, I'm sure).

That man is so vile. He blamed the Aurora shootings on similar crepe. He needs to go stuff more chicken sandwiches in his mouth and shut the fork up.


The worst thing about Huckabee is how many people like him because he has a really sweet face, plays music and seems folksy. He always seems like he'd be a kindly preacher type who might not agree with you, but he'd be gentle and kind in his disagreement. Instead he's a freaking hatemonger.


I know. This is what I basically thought Pre-Chik crepe.

But good religious men and women are coming out to say kind, soothing, compassionate things. He isn't. I'm quite sure his God would be disgusted with him.

_________________
"This is the creepiest post ever if you don't know who Molly is." -Fee
"a vegan death match sounds like something where we all end up hugging." -LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:13 pm 
Offline
Semen Strong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm
Posts: 19105
Location: Cliffbar NJ
lavawitch wrote:
I have mostly heard people either speculating about possible mental illness or saying that the brother said various things. I haven't heard anyone blaming this on mental illness.


From Alternet:
Quote:
With proper treatment, people with severe mental illness are no more likely to commit crimes than others. But without treatment, the potential for tragedy is painfully evident.

The Right’s program for public safety appears to be that everyone should have a gun and few should get adequate healthcare. That’s a recipe for death and destruction. Killing sprees are on the rise. How many more people will have to die before mental healthcare becomes a national priority?

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi ... ted-mental

I was listening to NPR today, and a caller was talking about this as well, and the moderator was quick to say that at that point there was no evidence of mental illness. And my FB feed has quite a few people blaming this on mental illness.

Its not the rah-rah guns people, its people who care about healthcare etc. A sign of our evolution from Colombine is that no one ever blames these things on heavy metal and videogames anymore :)

_________________
My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:23 pm 
Offline
Heeeerrrrree's JACKY!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:39 pm
Posts: 4096
Location: the Eug
But what if access to emergency mental health services (whatever that might be) were as easy and as unstigmatized as a trip to the emergency room for a broken arm? What if, when under stress we were taught to recognize our triggers? All of us.

The guns he had were legally purchased. I agree fully that there are too many and too easy to get ahold of. But that is just part of the problem.

_________________
Don't mind my breasts and vagina, I'm a gay man.---Idatetatooedguys.

"Tots: the universal food band-aid... better than a mother's kiss. Healin' wounds since 1954." Meggs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:37 pm 
Offline
Queen Bitch of Self-Righteous Veganville
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 10663
Location: Illinoize
I don't think it's right to blame any one single thing on these events - like anything else, a ton of tiny factors came together to make this scenario happen. Someone can be bipolar or have severe depression and have access to weapons and never shoot up a school. I believe that people can commit crimes of passion without having any mental issues, like someone walking in on their wife with another man and getting really angry and shooting them, but I don't think killing your mom and THEN driving to her school is a crime of passion/heat of the moment, so I do think that clearly, there was something wrong in this guy's mind. That doesn't mean that i'm just dismissing it as, 'oh, some nutter'.

I'm sure within the next few days, the media will paint a picture of this man's life to try and give us a reason. Maybe they'll find a note, but even if they do it's unlikely that he is going to spell it out in exact detail in a way that will make people go, "Oh, okay."

I agree with lavawitch that it's important to remember that the why doesn't matter, a bunch of children are dead now and none of them deserved it, and their families don't deserve this. And that's a big reason why Mike Huckabee can go suck a huge fork, because those parents are going to hear his words: their kids are dead because they didn't have enough Jesus in their lives.

_________________
"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:47 pm 
Offline
Discovered unobtainium
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 12251
Location: Dinosaur Stampede
I wasn't saying that just because I haven't heard it, nobody is doing it.

I have heard people blaming video games today, even Facebook, of all the crepe. People have been doing that since Pong.

I can say though, that after VT, the pro gun people were very quick to place blame on Cho's mental illness and point fingers at Cook Counseling center and their miserable excuse for services. The byproduct of that was improved services for all students and more awareness, campus wide. Not that "we better help this stressed, depressed student before he/she kills 30 people" is a great attitude, but the help is there now.

Also, in many of these tragic cases, there were warning signs. Certainly there were with Cho. He scared people! Professors submitted writings to counseling because they were freaked the fork out. His high school teachers had commented on things too, but they were mostly dismissed. He was from a very anti-mental health treatment family, so they didn't do anything. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what warning signs are so people can be helped. I fully believe that Cho could have been helped.

_________________
"This is the creepiest post ever if you don't know who Molly is." -Fee
"a vegan death match sounds like something where we all end up hugging." -LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:37 pm 
Offline
Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:39 pm
Posts: 1901
Location: St. John's Newfoundland
kfad wrote:
I don't think anyone is equating all persons with mental illness to violence (well, my mother was trying too...).


It would be ideal if we, as a culture, as a country, could realize that mental health does not exist in a vacuum. Guns do not exist in a vacuum. All of these things are interconnected. And we need to start treating them as such.


Very true, its not one single issue that can account for all the mass shootings. The Aurora shooter got very good mental health care from a psychiatrist who was a pioneer on preventing that very thing. A lot of people the world over have mental health issues, and when there is tragedy its often manifested in cultural ways. Its not a simple easy thing to explain away, and we might end up having to make some radical changes.

_________________
I was really surprised the first time I saw a penis. After those banana tutorials, I was expecting something so different. -Tofulish


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:43 pm 
Offline
Discovered unobtainium
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 12251
Location: Dinosaur Stampede
I've come to realize that reasons are important to me. I just don't believe in evil for the sake of evil, though I know that is dumb and naive when there is evidence for it everywhere.

I had nightmares for months after VT, mostly about those ringing cell phones, and now, today, I can't get the image of 20 sweet children dead and cold and alone in that school building overnight. How are the parents dealing with knowing their child is in the building and they can't go to them or hold them?

I also feel so much for the police. These were small town police mostly, without much to prepare (assuming one could, but an urban responder would have more to draw on maybe). I worked at the math center overnight shift and so knew some of the police before and after since they sat there with us, and they were just gutted. They told me things they probably shouldn't have, but they were hard up. Many were treated for PTSD and some couldn't return to duty. I think we always expect that they just handle these things are are so brave and awesome, but they are just good people who can, and do, break.

_________________
"This is the creepiest post ever if you don't know who Molly is." -Fee
"a vegan death match sounds like something where we all end up hugging." -LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:35 pm 
Offline
WELFARIST!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:03 pm
Posts: 5271
Location: Gallifrey
Shanti wrote:
How will the survivors ever feel safe at school again?

We move on. I wasn't in elementary school when it happened to me (high school) but we go back, we move on and eventually everything normalizes again. It might be different for the younger kids, I don't know, but that was my experience after the shooting at my high school. When we went back the next day, everyone talked about it and about our experiences- they tried to have it cleaned up before we came back. I know the way I've stated this seems really "easy" but eventually it all normalizes again. I feel like the hardest thing we had to deal with was the media who wouldn't leave us alone and were like hawks on us. The media also spread around a lot of lies and misinformation and the students had to deal with that in various ways. The school also spread around lies and misinformation and the students were angry about that because the school was trying to save its own asparagus at the expense of the truth.

eta: They why does matter. It definitely matters to me.

_________________
"...anarchists only want to burn cars and punch cops."- nickvicious
"We'll be eating our own words 30 years from now when we're demanding our legislators outlaw aerosol-based cyber dildo-wielding death holograms."- Brian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:18 am 
Offline
Bathes in Braggs
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:01 am
Posts: 1296
Location: sunshine coast, australia
Jigglypuff wrote:
Erinnerung wrote:
mrsbadmouth wrote:
I don't think there's a simple solution, but I also find many of the pro-gun arguments to be total bullshiitake. For instance, 'guns don't kill people, people do'.


I think the thing I struggle with is the whole 'it's our right' argument. As far as I'm concerned, you have the right to have a gun in Australia, too. It just has to be a certain type of gun (I'd never even seen an assault rifle until I went to Vietnam, and it scared the shiitake out of me), and you have to jump through a ton of hoops and provide valid reasons to get it. The right is still there. I don't understand why the 'right' needs to equal the right to unregulated/loosely regulated gun ownership.

Is the rate of gun crime low in Australia? Just wondering because the pro-gun people here always give the "but then only criminals with have guns!" argument, which I find silly.


there is pretty much no gun crime in australia. there were two serious stabbings in australia last night, they both made the national news, and nobody died even. single murders are national news here and are very shocking, i cannot even imagine what it is like to have something like this massacre happen. well actually, i kinda remember the port arthur massacre in tasmania, which was the catalist for our gun law reforms. sure, gun lovers were angry, but the gov't just put their foot down and look at the result!

the "but then only criminals with have guns!" argument is not even applicable, because the criminals are not usually going to even use guns if everyone else is unarmed, are they? and as we see time and time again, the people massacring school kids aren't (career) criminals, they're "regular" people....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: massive school shooting in CT :-(
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:32 am 
Offline
Vegan Since Before There Were Vegetables
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:30 pm
Posts: 10415
Location: Wolfville, Nova Scotia
FootFace wrote:
Only in America could anyone think the solution is more guns. Just think how safe we'd be if everyone was armed at all times!

Yeah, hearing this sentiment again and again makes me forking terrified for where this world is headed.

I'm kind of blown away by how this is immediately an issue of gun control, and not an issue of "this world is forked up and we need to start again". Don't get me wrong, I think guns are awful, but I think the bigger issue is what is happening in the human condition to even make this scenario possible.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 272 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer